{"error":false,"id":["151543"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151543,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151543","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T10:59:25+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T11:05:26+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c3365bc6fde5e6c5fde1f397fd65b575a832dcb4691eb09bf4e2ec4005c00d4bcaf05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱若華","委員發言時間":"10:59:25 - 11:05:26","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。）","gazette":{"lineno":672,"blocks":[["邱委員若華：（10時59分）謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席：請林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["邱委員若華：主委好。在我們運安會的書面報告一開始有指出，自從108年8月1號成立至今，運安會執掌重大運輸事故調查，還有透過系統性調查，完整發掘可能肇事的原因，還有安全風險，提出改善建議，以防止類似事件再次發生。本席這邊想要請教主委，通常調查報告與改進建議事項如果主管機關不重視或不認同的話，運安會要怎麼因應？"],["林主任委員信得：主管機關不重視的話，我們會在行政院的定期檢討會中提報，行政院是管它的，它會叫那個目的事業主管機關來報告，譬如說臺鐵，它會列一個專案，請它來報告。"],["邱委員若華：我這邊提到的是，如果主管機關不重視或不認同運安會做出來的報告，你們要怎麼做因應？"],["林主任委員信得：就是我剛剛講的，我們會往上報，因為我們是行政機關，它也是行政機關，我們跟它是平行的，就由上面的行政院來督導它、來跟它講，沒有錯啊！"],["邱委員若華：因為這邊有說運安會要提出改善建議，防止類似事件再次發生，那麼要是再次發生，也就是我們又再次看到類似交通事故的話，對於調查的技術和作業流程有沒有檢討和調整？"],["林主任委員信得：目前為止還沒有窒礙難行，但是就剛剛委員提的，譬如說水路，水路有引水人的港口、引水人的作業管理問題的時候，它一直再發生、再發生，我們就會跟交通部說這個制度有問題，它現在已經啟動了，像這種的，行政院也跟它講這確實是嚴重的問題……"],["邱委員若華：所以只是做到告知嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：對，會告訴它。"],["邱委員若華：就只是告知，沒有提出你們的相關專業建議，以防止憾事再次發生？"],["林主任委員信得：我們甚至在去年由我本人跟我們水路組組長到交通部去拜會次長，跟他開過聯席會議，也告訴他問題所在，他們的次長、部長也嚇了一跳，說怎麼會這麼嚴重或什麼。他們已經啟動了。像這種都有得到預期的效果。"],["邱委員若華：運安會的解凍案報告中指出，113年4月16日已擬訂「重大運輸事故之範圍」修正草案初稿，朝降低啟動調查門檻及擴大調查範圍方向調整，這邊要請教主委，去年本席的選區桃園八德環保志工團前往宜蘭旅遊，不幸發生37人輕重傷的遊覽車翻覆交通事故，像這樣不幸的交通重大事故，是什麼條件不符合調查的門檻及範圍？"],["林主任委員信得：這個案子有啟動，對。"],["邱委員若華：運安會有很多案件調查超過一年，這樣的調查效率是什麼原因造成的？請主委說明。"],["林主任委員信得：剛剛前面的委員也有提到，一般外面的人以為：這不是很簡單，幾個月就調查出來了嗎？事實上我們有一定的程序，國外的一些調查其實也是這樣子。但是對社會關注的案子，我們當然都會特別加速，我們會加班，並且把人力調派過來。"],["邱委員若華：所以一年是最快的時間嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們航空有分6級，水路有分3級，鐵道和公路都分2級，一級是18個月，二級12個月就調查完成，特殊的案子剛剛報告過了，我們會加快腳步。"],["邱委員若華：這樣子看下來，最快是一年嘛！通常案件調查下來都至少要一年的時間？"],["林主任委員信得：一般都是至少一年。因為整個調查階段我跟委員報告一下，譬如說，我們如果把這個調查分成3大階段，有調查階段，有報告撰寫階段，有審查階段，在現場蒐證階段，譬如說我們的機動小組去蒐集資料、證據，然後協調，資料的蒐集要歸納，有時候發生事故我們要去訪談當事人，一訪談就要兩、三個月，因為碰到困難嘛！"],["邱委員若華：什麼樣的困難？"],["林主任委員信得：就是有些人有個人隱私，或是他會害怕等等。譬如說在報告撰寫的時候又要根據資料……"],["邱委員若華：運安會有想過要縮短這個流程嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：對！像這種的，本來是兩、三個人去做，我們會一下子七、八個人分頭去做這件事情。"],["邱委員若華：主委提到人數，運安會的預算員額是93人，約聘人員就有71人，請問目前人員的流動率如何？"],["林主任委員信得：流動率是不高啦！不過跟委員報告，我們現在各組幾個缺找人很難找，第一個當然是少子化的關係，第二個，因為譬如說我們要的很多專業人才英文都要比較好……"],["邱委員若華：本席接下來就要問到，這樣對專業的調查、判斷、累積還有經驗的傳承會不會有影響？"],["林主任委員信得：目前還好啦！但是我們會有捉襟見肘的狀況，確實人力不足，沒有錯。所以我們同仁現在常常都在加班調查。謝謝委員關心。"],["邱委員若華：OK，好。"],["林主任委員信得：譬如我們要的幾個委員，通知他來interview，他英文很好，可是他說：不要，我要去台積電，台積電的薪水比較高。所以我們就找不到人。"],["邱委員若華：主委要不要對著鏡頭喊話一下？就說：目前我們運安會非常需要人才！"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["邱委員若華：OK，謝謝主委。"],["主席：好，謝謝邱若華委員。","接下來請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-8","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","徐富癸","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","林沛祥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","邱若華","游顥","林倩綺","洪孟楷","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","張啓楷","黃健豪","黃仁"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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