{"error":false,"id":["151559"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151559,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151559","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T11:45:20+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T11:51:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c3362ecaa6e12224f54cf397fd65b575a832dcb4691eb09bf4e232e7a0c5883758305ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:45:20 - 11:51:23","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。）","gazette":{"lineno":893,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時45分）謝謝主席，請主委。"],["主席：請主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：主委你好。眾所矚目的阿里山森林鐵路經過15年的修復，萬眾都期待喔！7月1號就要全面通車，明天栩悅號就要開始迎新上路了。今天我想要請教主委的是，裡面有很多安全的問題你們到底有沒有掌握？","我們看一下，去年4月阿里山森林鐵道驚傳落石砸到軌道，還是靠遊客揮手去示警才沒有發生危險，運安會那時候有掌握這個信息嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們有時候會接到民眾的通報，確實這個事情有時候會發生，沒有錯。但是……"],["張委員啓楷：還好有遊客在那邊揮手，對不對？沒有的話就發生問題，怎麼辦？","我們再看第二個，在今年4月份、剛剛才發生的，有一輛列車發現有樹倒塌，還好有及時煞車然後通報全面清理。","主委，你有看到一個很重要的重點嗎？現在看起來這兩個案件都是要靠目測，對不對？是不是？我們是科技時代耶！這樣安不安全？尤其阿里山很多都是彎道嘛，對不對？它有一些死角，不能只有靠目測啊！","我要問你兩件事情，第一個，你發現這個問題之後有沒有去處理？第二個，今天本席提出這個安全的問題，你們要怎麼改善這個問題？不能一直靠眼睛去測試啊！是不是？你們怎麼解決這個問題？"],["林主任委員信得：你說的這兩件都是天然災害，天然災害我們確實也有收到通報。那剛剛委員提的是說，是不是有一些系統或是科技可以偵測？當然是可以，但它是阿里山的森林鐵路，它的主管機關是不是會投入相關經費或者預算去做？那我們……"],["張委員啓楷：對呀，所以你要去支持它，行政院整體要去支持！阿里山不是只有嘉義之光，全世界都矚目，對不對？這對臺灣的觀光非常、非常重要啊！","老實講，第一個，絕對不能發生安全問題……"],["林主任委員信得：對，我們會……"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，今天本席很清楚跟你講，至少這兩個案子是非常明確的，是不是？"],["林主任委員信得：是，我們會提醒……"],["張委員啓楷：那你到底要怎麼去解決這個安全問題？不要再靠目測。"],["林主任委員信得：我們會提醒主管機關這個確實要注意，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：你能不能差不多在一個禮拜，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["張委員啓楷：針對這兩個案子你要怎麼去處理，好不好？","我給你看下一個，其實4月3日花蓮大地震的時候，隔天有發生一個很重要的事情，那是及時有搶救下來，主委，你看一下，那時候那個大石頭掉下來壓住軌道，隔天而已喔，是落石的告警系統發揮了功能，這太魯閣號才逃過一劫，對不對？","所以我就問你啊，目前阿里山的鐵路有預警系統，可是那個範圍太少了、太小了，對不對？"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你今天能不能答應我趕快去幫忙？多做一些、讓那個範圍擴大，可以嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們可以把臺鐵的成功經驗，如同委員所講的，我們可以請他們延伸過去，請他們把這個經驗……"],["張委員啓楷：成功的我們就要沿用到阿里山鐵道這邊。"],["林主任委員信得：是！"],["張委員啓楷：這個非常、非常重要。"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你剛剛說你要去做，你在一個禮拜完成之後，你跟我講做到什麼程度、準備怎麼做，好不好？一個禮拜給我這個，可以嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：可以，好。"],["張委員啓楷：這是好事情，要快一點！"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：我們再看一下，這個我不曉得你有沒有掌握，不曉得你調查了沒有、改進了沒有，去年就有媒體直接爆料，我後來去查也有這個事情。他在2023年爆料說一年前──也就是2022年4月的時候，阿里山鐵道因為操作失誤造成了擠軌事件，所以轉轍器扭曲變形，就是我圈起來的這個地方，大家看一下。主委，就是這個圖的圓圈圈，右邊這個圖，右邊這個就是它的轉轍器，整個就扭曲變形了；左邊這個鐵道都已經凸起來了，這很危險啊！你們當初看到這個報導有沒有去掌握？有改善嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：我們的資料蒐集是它不是營運列車，所以沒有立案，它不是營運列車發生的事故。"],["張委員啓楷：怎麼不是營運列車呢？不是啦！它是鐵道上面出現這個問題啦！鐵道的轉轍器讓軌道凸起來，那車子進來當然就會危險。"],["林主任委員信得：這是主管機關軟硬體相關設施的改善，不是屬於運輸事故，不一樣啦！"],["張委員啓楷：不過還是危險，這個要處理，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：對、對，是危險，沒有錯，我們會注意。"],["張委員啓楷：好，所以本席今天做了兩個非常具體的要求，第一個就是示警系統目前真的還是不夠，你已經答應了，所以你一個禮拜內把它提出來說你會怎麼做，把資料送到本席這邊，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["張委員啓楷：像這個安全都要注意，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：好。"],["張委員啓楷：因為阿里山是嘉義之光，明天開始有新的列車已經要啟動了，7月1號全面都要啟動，這對整個臺灣的觀光推向國際非常非常重要，我們共同推動國際的觀光，風華再現，對臺灣是好的，一方面拜託一下，安全一定要做到，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：一個禮拜內，相關的調查跟改善的計畫，送到本席辦公室，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝主委。"],["主席：再請主委、運安會一週內回應張啓楷委員。","下一位請蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","請王美惠委員、王美惠委員、王美惠委員不在。","請鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員、鄭天財委員不在。","請徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","登記質詢委員均已發言完畢，作以下決定：報告及詢答完畢，委員黃健豪、黃仁委員所提書面質詢，列入紀錄並刊登公報。委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料或未答復部分，請運安會儘速以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-8","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","徐富癸","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","林沛祥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","邱若華","游顥","林倩綺","洪孟楷","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","張啓楷","黃健豪","黃仁"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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對不對在軌道壓住嘛"},{"start":187.489,"end":208.443,"text":"昨天而已喔是落實的這個告警系統發揮的功能啊所以太魯閣在逃過一劫啊對不對我就在問你啊我們阿里山目前的鐵路是有預警系統啊可是那個範圍是太少了太小了對不對你今天能不能答應我趕快去幫忙都做一些啊這樣那個範圍擴大可以嗎"},{"start":210.38,"end":230.893,"text":"我們可以把台鐵的成功經驗就如同委員講的我們可以請他們延伸過去成功的我們就要沿用到阿里山鐵道這邊好不好這個非常非常重要這個你剛說你要去做一個禮拜內你完成之後你跟我講你做到什麼程度準備怎麼做好不好"},{"start":231.713,"end":249.804,"text":"這個我不曉得你有沒有掌握啦,不曉得你調查了沒有改進了沒有。 古年的時尊有媒體就直接爆料了,我後來去查也有這個事情。2023年一爆料,他講一年前,2022年四月時尊。"},{"start":253.544,"end":273.271,"text":"阿里山這個鐵道阿因為那個操作的失誤造成了擊軌事件所以他轉測器扭曲變形就是我扣起來那個地方大家看一下各位就是這個圖圓圈圈右邊這個圖右邊這個就是他轉測器整個就扭曲變形了左邊這個鐵道都已經凸起來了這很危險阿你們當初看到這個報導有沒有去掌握有改善嗎"},{"start":285.414,"end":287.797,"text":"為什麼不是營運列車嗎?他是鐵道地面出現這個問題啦"},{"start":300.76,"end":301.961,"text":"主管機關以軟硬體相關設施的改善,不是屬於運勢訴估。"},{"start":316.514,"end":332.842,"text":"所以本期今天做了兩個非常具體的這個要求第一個就是市井這個系統目前真的是還是不夠的你今天答應了喔所以你一個禮拜內把它提出來說你怎麼做把資料送到本期這邊來好不好那像這個安全都要注意好不好因為這個阿里山市"},{"start":334.798,"end":334.818,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}