{"error":false,"id":["151581"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151581,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151581","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T13:08:13+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T13:20:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336371c5913700d56e27dee175bc8e0be1adcb4691eb09bf4e276f48d881526639a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"13:08:13 - 13:20:17","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：\n(一)\t本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等4案。【本院委員王世堅等23人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n(二)\t本院委員黃捷等19人、委員羅明才等16人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等2案。【本院委員羅明才等16人提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n二、審查「保險法」4案：\n(一)\t本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員蔡易餘等19人、委員王鴻薇等16人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院台灣民眾黨黨團提案須經各黨團簽署不復議同意書】\n三、審查人民請願案有關「娛樂稅法」3案。\n【4月22日及24日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1086,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（13時8分）主席、各位委員及出列席官員，大家好。主席，可否請財政部莊部長？"],["主席：莊部長。"],["羅委員明才：莊部長，辛苦了。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：看到大家到現在一點多都還在開會，實在於心不忍。如果你現在答應的話，我們就早一點休息。如果今天沒有辦法進入實質審查，你可不可以告訴大家，下一次或者一個月會讓它過？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個我剛剛已經說過，我們還是會請地方政府研商以後，尋求最大的共識。"],["羅委員明才：我想520之前先不要給你壓力，但是至少520以後，新的人事應該要有新的作為。你也知道所有朝野立委對於廢除娛樂稅都正向看待，沒有人反對，所以建請部長要從善如流。該怎麼做、好的事情早做晚做都要做，我覺得很可惜，那麼重要的財經部會首長坐在這邊，可以說是冷飯熱炒，重複在講這個議題，與其這樣倒不如你如果同意，我們就趕快休息，或是下次讓它通過，我們就趕快休息，因為你還有很多事情可以去做，很重要的事情可以做的太多了。譬如現在股市也跌跌不休，破兩萬點，部長，你覺得兩萬點站得住站不住？"],["莊部長翠雲：兩萬點有上去，今天好像是跌一百多點，因為我一直在這邊也沒有去看股市的情況。"],["羅委員明才：上週慘跌七百多點。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，上週五是跌了七百多點。"],["羅委員明才：市值就少了一兆多。"],["莊部長翠雲：股市的波動當然一定會有上上下下，也有各自的因素。"],["羅委員明才：所以，部長，與其在這邊講一個早上的18億稅損的問題，倒不趕快去救股市。國安基金會不會出手？"],["莊部長翠雲：國安基金當然會密切的關注股市的情形，但是國安基金進場必須要符合國安基金的相關規定，而且要經過國安基金委員會的授權。"],["羅委員明才：像中東那邊如果戰爭持續擴大，會不會影響？這個算不算是國安基金出手的選項之一？"],["莊部長翠雲：如果戰事繼續擴大或時間拉長的話，那還要有所謂資金的大量移動，影響到國際整個市場的穩定，我想這個有相關的一些條件在裡面。"],["羅委員明才：最近大概什麼時候會開會？"],["莊部長翠雲：國安基金的例會是每三個月開，大概前一、兩個禮拜才剛開過例會。"],["羅委員明才：就長期來看，國安基金都是賺錢，而且你知道國安基金賺了多少，有沒有算過？"],["莊部長翠雲：上一次進場大概有賺差不多100億，但是國安基金的目的並不是在賺錢，國安基金的目的是在穩定市場，穩定資金市場。"],["羅委員明才：部長，你想想看，國安基金一出手隨便就賺一百多億，我們今天早上講的是18億，乘以10年也才180億，所以拜託部長，你趕快去賺錢吧！"],["莊部長翠雲：好，我去賺錢。"],["羅委員明才：還有很多，事實上，你如果把臺灣的一些地緣政治關係解除，比如今天的保險法第一百四十六條之四，開放以後，臺灣不得了，我多麼期盼臺灣跟新加坡一樣，可以跟大陸兩岸一起來思考怎麼樣來推動兩岸的百年和平協定，簽了以後，我覺得臺灣未來絕對不會輸給新加坡的，更可以解決最重要的、本席所關心的年輕人長期低薪的問題，當然今天黃主委也講了很多，當然有一些議題不是你可以決定的，但是解決若干問題，提供保險公司在臺灣更多的投資機會，也不是我的責任啊！今天你如果讓我來當行政院長，我趕快來做，把環境做好，把基礎擴大，也可以鼓勵台積電在臺灣多發公司債啊，對不對？還有很多很多啊，但臺灣也發得不多。公債的部分，全部的市場規模臺灣現在是多少？國債。"],["陳署長柏誠：目前大概是四、五千億。"],["羅委員明才：對啊，這也不是我的問題啊！是你們沒有把環境做好，讓這些壽險公司沒有辦法回來投資啊！所以就是倒果為因，整個就亂了套啊！其實你就把臺灣想成未來的新加坡成功的模式，我們要怎麼做，我不期盼你們很厲害，你們照抄就好了啊！我所提出來的法案都是有所本的，不然你就照抄啊！圖利了誰？好到臺灣的年輕人啊！好到誰？好到臺灣未來的發展啊！所以希望部長，你可以多思考一下。","最後再問你，就是今天會不會過？"],["莊部長翠雲：今天？召委在這邊。"],["羅委員明才：如你所願啦，因為你可能覺得需要點時間多多來思考。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：如你所願，但是我也希望過一、兩個月以後能如我所願，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["羅委員明才：一人一次嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：互有往來，謝謝部長。","接下來請金管會黃主委，黃主委你好。"],["黃主任委員天牧：召委好。"],["羅委員明才：我記得股市上兩萬點的時候，我們在這邊討論，我請教你說兩萬點會不會變成一個生活日常，就是兩萬點不會是大家那麼害怕的事情，一萬點經過了，以前一萬點的時候，我在財委會的時候說股市上萬點，還給人民好生活，所以那時候我請大家吃雞排、吃珍奶，現在我在考量，如果兩萬點能站得穩的話，我跟以前一樣就是雞排再加上珍奶，因為以前有人沒吃到嘛，所以兩萬點我們再慶祝一下，好不好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，看您自己決定，我沒有特別……"],["羅委員明才：好啦，那我們就希望兩萬點要站好，至少要持續長一點的時間。我們今天討論到保險法第一百四十六條的部分，主委，你覺得要不要讓它過？因為我今天聽了所有委員的講法，大家都希望資金回來建設臺灣、錢留臺灣，但是括弧裡面的是如果有好的機會。事實上，主委，你知道如果身為未來的行政院長，他要是聽到這個，他會高興得不得了，講難聽一點，太多事情都不用做了，光是這六兆多的資金回來以後，你想想看臺灣會變成怎麼樣？但前提是要有地緣政治各方面的和平啦，那股市可能馬上就漲，要是我來看起碼三萬點以上。所以我們在算的都是斤斤計較那個利率，因為美國利率有5%，我們的2%，可能有多3%，那個都是小菜兩、三碟啦，我在看的是整個臺灣怎麼樣脫胎換骨。坦白講我是在野黨，根本就不應該要來提這個帶動臺灣大力發展、讓執政黨可以穩穩的做下去的法案，為什麼？我心裡在想，就是無論如何，我在國民黨開會的時候，我們在花蓮那一場會議，我說國民黨要重返執政也很簡單，第一、你不要唱衰臺灣，你要做多臺灣，臺灣就會一直好起來，不要為了選票考量；第二、多多照顧年輕人；第三、培養更多的優秀年輕的政治人物，然後不斷的圖利人民。其實我要講這個就是圖利嘛！保險公司也不要想回來會被限制，怎麼會被限制呢？大家都知道，現在美國國力衰退，我們壽險公司在美國買的公債、公司債券加一加有多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：應該有上兆以上。"],["羅委員明才：好幾兆，對不對？你想想看，如果美國國力不斷的衰退下去，哪一天突然爆炸，就像當初俄羅斯壽險公司投資以色列一樣，全部都血本無歸，那回來臺灣不是更好嗎？公共建設像高鐵環臺，韓國瑜院長的打通整個中央山脈啊，那個以後都是穩賺的嘛；開放陸客來臺啊，觀光旅遊各方面全部都好起來，好到誰？好到年輕人啊！就不會永遠是三萬五嘛，因為三萬五不是現在第一天講，年輕人低薪的情況已經講了10年、20年，本席只不過希望找一個地方可以有個突破點，讓他可以脫胎換骨，大家多多來思考一下。所以本席所講的，主委，你憑良心想想看，如果臺灣有那麼好的投資機會，未來臺灣會不會更好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我想我瞭解委員深謀遠慮，都是為了國家的發展，我們非常敬佩，謝謝，有一些顧慮啦。"],["羅委員明才：主委，今天聽起來根本也沒有委員反對啊，只是說循序漸進，所以今天要不要讓它通過？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，跟委員報告，我們報告有寫，因為保險資金出去有它必要的原因，如果真的通過，造成保險資金真的要逐漸回流，會對保戶權益造成很多的影響，可不可以跟委員報告，我們在公共建設方面本來就不斷在努力，是不是給我們一點時間，我們再努力下去？"],["羅委員明才：好，那今天就如你所願，我們再繼續等新的主委來，我希望新主委來，你交接的時候，你要跟他講財委會所有委員的關心跟用心，督促他對於公共基礎建設、長照的部分要想辦法怎麼引導，因為官是他在當，我們是民意代表，我們就是建議而已。"],["黃主任委員天牧：瞭解。"],["羅委員明才：請你把這個精神傳承下去。"],["黃主任委員天牧：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["羅委員明才：你如果講得好，搞不好你下次也是當行政院副院長啊，不要懷憂喪志！"],["黃主任委員天牧：我沒有懷憂喪志啊！"],["羅委員明才：好，那就繼續努力。謝謝。"],["黃主任委員天牧：謝謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員。","何欣純委員、何欣純、何欣純，何欣純不在。","謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯、謝衣鳯，謝衣鳯不在。","游顥、游顥、游顥，游顥委員不在。","鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。"],["主席（羅委員明才）：今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢，本次會議作如下決議：一、說明及詢答完畢；二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資訊，請相關部會於1週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者從其所定；三、「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」4案、廢止「娛樂稅法」2案、「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」1案、「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」2案及請願案3案擇期繼續審查。","本日會議議程已進行完畢，如有不在場委員補提書面質詢，一併列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請議事人員協助處理。","現在散會。","散會（13時21分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-10","speakers":["羅明才","王世堅","徐富癸","王鴻薇","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","李坤城","李彥秀","顏寬恒","賴惠員","黃珊珊","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","洪孟楷","黃國昌","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第10次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「娛樂稅法」6案：(一)本院委員徐富癸等17人、委員陳秀寳等18人、委員羅明才等19\n人、委員王世堅等23人分別擬具「娛樂稅法第二條及第五條條文修正草案」等 4案、(二)本院委\n員黃捷等19 人、委員羅明才等16 人分別擬廢止「娛樂稅法」等 2 案；二、審查「保險法」 4 案：\n(一)本院委員羅明才等17人擬具「保險法第一百四十六條之四條文修正草案」案、(二)本院委員\n蔡易餘等 19 人、委員王鴻薇等 16 人分別擬具「保險法第一百七十七條條文修正草案」等 2 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莊部長莊部長辛苦了委員好看到大家現在一點都還開會實在於心不忍齁其實我們如果說你現在答應的話我們就早點就休息啊"},{"start":21.226,"end":33.058,"text":"或者是說今天如果說沒有辦法進入實質的審查那你可不可以告訴大家說你下一次或是一個月的時候會讓他過?這個我剛剛已經說過就是說我們還是會請地方政府來來研商以後修行最大的一個共識對"},{"start":43.953,"end":68.65,"text":"好啦我想520之前先也不要給你壓力啦齁所以至少520以後一個新的人士應該有新的作為啊因為你也知道所有朝野立委對於廢除這個娛樂稅的這個事情大家都正向看待沒有人反對啊所以也建請就是部長你要從善如流啊"},{"start":69.895,"end":84.92,"text":"則是該怎麼做好的事情早做晚做都要做其實我就是覺得很可惜那麼重要財經部的首長坐在這邊就是可以說是冷飯熱炒重複在講這個議題"},{"start":89.833,"end":112.101,"text":"其實與其這樣倒不如覺得你如果同意我們就趕快休息或者下次讓他通過我們趕快就休息因為你還有很多事情可以去做的很重要的事情可以做的太多了比如說現在股市也跌跌不休破兩萬點部長你覺得兩萬點站得住站不住"},{"start":114.719,"end":141.935,"text":"兩萬點有上去好像今天好像大概是跌一百多因為我一直在這邊也沒有去看看這個股市的情況上週慘跌七百多點對上週五是跌了四百多點股市的波動當然一定會有上上下下那也有各有各自的因素部長你與其在這邊講了一個早上的18億的稅損的問題是你待會趕快去救股市啊"},{"start":143.411,"end":163.032,"text":"國安基金會不會出手?國安基金當然會密切的關注股市的一個情形但是國安基金進場必須要符合國安基金的裡面的相關的規定而且要經過國安基金委員會的一個授權像中東外面如果戰爭持續擴大會不會影響?這個算不算是國安基金"},{"start":164.013,"end":165.054,"text":"那最近大概什麼時候會開個會?"},{"start":185.112,"end":194.205,"text":"國安基金的例會是每三個月大概前一兩個禮拜才剛開過例會。其實就長期的看,國安基金都是賺錢啊。"},{"start":195.959,"end":213.306,"text":"而且你知道國安基金賺了多少?你有沒有算過?上一次進場大概有賺差不多100億,但是國安基金的目的並不是在賺錢,它國安基金的目的是在穩定市場,穩定資金市場。所以你國安基金一出手隨便就賺100多億喔?我們今天早上講的是18億,你這10年也才180億,所以拜託部長你趕快去賺錢吧。"},{"start":219.653,"end":243.936,"text":"我去賺錢是吧還有很多事實上你如果把台灣的一些地緣政治關係把它解除掉比如說今天的保險法146條之事開放以後回來的話台灣不得了我都多麼期盼說台灣跟新加坡一樣我們可以跟"},{"start":244.926,"end":273.361,"text":"大陸兩岸一起來思考怎麼樣來推動兩岸的百年和平協定簽了以後我覺得台灣未來絕對不會輸於新加坡的更可以解決最重要本習慣性的年輕人長期低薪的問題當然像今天的黃主委也講了很多當然有一些議題不是你可以決定的但是解決"},{"start":274.758,"end":303.179,"text":"若干的問題提供保險公司在台灣更多的投資的機會也不是我的責任啊今天你如果讓我來當行政院長我趕快來做啊把環境做好把基礎擴大台積電也可以鼓勵他在台灣多發公債啊公司債啊對不對還有很多很多啊但台灣也發了不多公債的部分全部的市場規模台灣現在是多少國債"},{"start":306.519,"end":332.282,"text":"目前大概是四五千億對啊那這也不是我的問題啊是你們沒有把環境做好讓這些受選公司沒有辦法回來投資啊對所以就是倒果為因整個就亂的套啊其實你就把台灣想成未來新加坡成功的模式我們怎麼做我不期盼你們說很厲害你們照抄就好了啊"},{"start":333.775,"end":334.195,"text":"今天會不會過?今天?"},{"start":356.894,"end":357.935,"text":"接下來請金管委員黃竺偉"},{"start":383.356,"end":390.44,"text":"王主委您好教委好我記得股市上兩萬點的時候我們在這邊討論請教您說兩萬點會不會變成是一個生活之日常"},{"start":396.738,"end":420.93,"text":"就是兩萬點就不會是那麼害怕的事情因為以前一萬點經過一萬點的時候我在財委會的時候股市上萬點還給人民好生活所以那時候我請大家吃雞排、吃珍奶那現在我在考量如果兩萬點能站得穩的話我跟以前一樣就是"},{"start":422.125,"end":423.705,"text":"我們今天討論到保險法第146條的部分"},{"start":448.223,"end":472.196,"text":"主委你覺得要不要讓他過?因為我今天聽了所有的委員的講法大家都是希望說資金回來建設台灣啊、遷留台灣啊但是刮胡如果有好的機會那事實上主委你知道如果是身為行政院長未來的這個行政院長他要是聽到這個他會高興的不得了講來聽來太多事情都不用說"},{"start":473.376,"end":501.542,"text":"光是這6兆多的資金回來了以後你現在看台灣會變成怎麼樣在前提要有地緣政治各方面的和平啊馬上股市可能就上要是我來看起碼3萬點以上所以我們在算的都是斤斤計較那個哇利率啊因為美國利率有5%我們的2%可能有多3%那個都小菜兩三碟啦"},{"start":502.458,"end":527.113,"text":"我在看的是整個台灣怎麼樣脫胎換骨坦白講我是在野黨我根本就不應該要來提這個帶動台灣大力發展讓執政黨可以穩穩的做下去的法案為什麼那我心裡在想啊就是無論如何我在國民黨開會的時候我們有那個花蓮那一場會議我說國民黨要重返執政也很簡單"},{"start":528.917,"end":548.676,"text":"一、不要唱衰台灣,你要做多台灣,讓台灣就一直好起來,不要說為了選票考量。二、多多照顧年輕人。三、培養更多的優秀年輕人的政治人物,然後不斷的圖利人民。其實我要講這個就是圖利。"},{"start":550.663,"end":564.242,"text":"保險公司也不要想說回來我被限制你怎麼會被限制的大家都知道現在美國國力衰退我們現在在授權公司在美國買的公債公司債券加一加有多少"},{"start":567.077,"end":581.472,"text":"應該有上兆以上,對不對?好幾兆,對。那你想想看如果哪一天美國突然國力不斷地衰退下去,突然爆炸。就像俄羅斯當初授權控制投資、以色列的投資一樣,全部都血本無歸。"},{"start":583.476,"end":606.212,"text":"那回來台灣不是更好嗎?公共建設、高鐵、環台、韓國瑜、韓院長打通整個中央山脈,以後都是穩賺的。開放、入客來台,這全部所有的觀光旅遊各方面都起來,好起來又要好到誰?好到年輕人。"},{"start":607.628,"end":634.051,"text":"就不會永遠是3萬5嘛因為3萬5不是現在第一天講年輕人第一季的這個情況已經講了10年講了20年本席只不過找一個地方希望有個突破點讓他可以脫胎換骨大家多多來思考一下所以本席所講的主委你憑良心想想看如果台灣有那麼好的投資機會未來台灣會不會更好"},{"start":636.769,"end":638.991,"text":"主委今天聽起來根本也沒有委員反對阿只是說循序漸進那主委今天要不要讓他通過"},{"start":652.443,"end":674.996,"text":"是否可以跟委員報告我們報告有寫因為保險資金出去有它必要的原因那如果真的通過造成保險資金真的要逐漸要回流是會造成很多對保護權益的影響可不可以跟委員報告我們在公共建設方面本來就是不斷在努力是不是給我們一點時間我們再努力下去是好那今天就如你所願"},{"start":677.037,"end":693.526,"text":"我們就繼續等新的主委來但我希望說新主委來你交接的時候你要跟大家講說大家財委會所有委員的關心跟用心那希望督促他公共基礎建設長照的部分他要想辦法怎麼引導"},{"start":694.206,"end":696.728,"text":"何欣淳委員何欣淳何欣淳何欣淳何欣淳不在謝一鳳謝一鳳謝一鳳謝一鳳不在"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}