{"error":false,"id":["151611"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151611,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151611","日期":"2024-04-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-24T09:52:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-24T10:02:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb3e72365a6cdaaf9e1a8d86c0863c2f2caeadb1108e4b8443214c0753048fa81f95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"09:52:56 - 10:02:01","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案。\n二、審查：\n（一）行政院函請審議「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員黃建賓等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十二條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":250,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（9時53分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。今天我們審查工廠管理輔導法，去年9月22號明揚大火造成10人死亡、111人受傷，非常嚴重。然後屏東大火，勇消4個人殉職、7個人受傷。112年9月27號，當時是在內政委員會，然後經濟部也有提書面報告，這裡面特別提到依據工廠管理輔導法第二十一條規定危險物品要申報，但是明揚沒有申報這個部分，也提到相關儲放數量超過消防法第十五條的規定，當時內政部的報告也提到屏東縣政府消防局未列管為公共危險物品的場所，這個是當時明揚公司大火所造成非常大的悲劇。","我們看今天經濟部的報告裡面提到強化源頭管制，經濟部與環境部強化優化化學雲勾稽搜尋功能，篩選出的彰濱產業園區疑似應申報而未申報工廠145家名單，查報有65家廠商須補申報。所以這個部分光一個彰濱產業園區，那你的報告沒有提到其他的是不是都OK、都沒有問題，產業園區也不是只有在這裡，而且上次發生的大火是在南部的科學園區裡面，所以科學產業園區這個部分的數字，是不是其他的都沒有問題？為什麼只提到這個？"],["王部長美花：因為我們是先把彰濱做示範，趕快來做。我們的報告也有提到，我們其實是會全國性來辦這個事情，這個會到6月底來抽查完成。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：表示說這個確實是一個很大的問題，這麼多……"],["王部長美花：就是要申報的部分，確實很多工廠不瞭解要這樣的申報。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，你的報告裡面修正相關子法，2月已經預告了，要加油，那今天的就是修正工廠管理輔導法。我們來看工廠管理輔導法現行條文跟行政院版所提的條文，工廠有下列情形之一者，由主管機關處負責人新臺幣五萬元以上五百萬元以下，這個差距很大，五萬到五百萬是相當大的差距。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：而且增加很多、很多、很多。"],["王部長美花：對。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：最主要就是沒有申報的，違反第二十一條第一項規定未依期限申報危險物品，這個未來在執行的時候，到底要五萬還是十萬、還是一百萬、還是兩百萬、還是五百萬，你們會根據什麼？"],["王部長美花：好，謝謝委員。確實我們當時用這麼大的range，一定要有裁罰基準，否則會不知道到底應該怎麼處罰，那地方政府也會無所適從，所以我們會針對裁罰基準召集地方政府來做溝通。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，就立法來講，有兩個……當然你剛剛講的裁罰基準，那要不要在這個下面再有一個授權的條款，這個是一個考量。另外，在這個條文裡面直接就講說依其管制的數量或是管制的種類來裁罰，最起碼有一個比較明確在法律條文裡面的數量或是種類，然後有這麼多的差距，可能我們在條文審查的時候可以討論。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：工廠管理輔導法中，科學工業園區、加工出口區、自由貿易港區、農業科技園區，它設立的登記是在中央主管機關，所以在這樣的情形之下，工廠管理輔導法第二十一條條文如何去落實，這很重要，因為剛才講的明揚大火或者是彰濱，剛剛你們已經查了的這些，因為它是跟你經濟部申請，跟中央主管機關申請，申請通過就走了，它會不會去想到還要跟地方政府去申報這些東西？畢竟這些申請工廠設立登記的並不是法律專業的人，會把每一條條文都看完，我不知道耶！可能很多都沒有啦！他可能就按照申請工廠登記的表格填一填，所以怎麼樣去防範這個漏洞？顯然現在是漏洞，光彰濱產業園區就發現這麼多沒有申報，所以這個部分，當然你現在這一條沒有修，怎麼樣讓他去申請登記的時候，就是要核定同意的時候，你還要做什麼？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，事實上這個處罰已經是到末端，那最重要其實就是委員講的部分，所以這個部分，第一個，就相關的資訊系統，目前是各地方政府連線的系統；第二個，這個系統也會連到像科技產業園區裡面的資訊系統，所以這個系統是互通的。另外，我們最近也辦非常多說明會，就像委員講的，我們也會跟大家講說這個的申報SOP是怎麼樣以及跟誰申報。另外也會透過原來工業區裡面各個區的承辦同仁，要跟區內的廠商說明說怎麼申報、應該向誰申報，相關的系統都讓他非常簡便的可以瞭解。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：所以這個部分很重要。"],["王部長美花：對，這個其實比罰則還重要。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：接下來就是下面的最後一項，直轄市、縣（市）主管機關應將第一項之工廠資料建檔列管，並轉知有關機關。我去年在內政委員會質詢的時候，就要求這個「有關機關」要給消防機關，消防機關不是到了現場才知道那個危險物品的狀況，平常就要知道，一發生事情，去的時候就是要很清楚，所以這個部分……"],["王部長美花：沒有錯，這個部分除了原來的申報系統之外，環境部有個化學雲的系統，那化學雲怎麼讓消防人員可以清楚知道這個工廠有沒有危險，我們之前的幾個月就是在做這個事情。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，加油，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["主席：謝謝鄭天財委員。","接下來我們請陳亭妃委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-9","speakers":["邱議瑩","黃建賓","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林思銘","林岱樺","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","鄭正鈐","謝衣鳯","蔡易餘","何欣純","黃國昌","洪孟楷","黃捷","羅智強","牛煦庭","陳超明","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷","王美惠"],"page_start":115,"meetingDate":["2024-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1133301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133301_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等 21案；二、審查：\n(一)行政院函請審議「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(二)本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)本院委員\n黃建賓等 17 人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(四)本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十二條及第二十九條條文修正草\n案」案、(五)本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案、(六)\n本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案、(七)本院委員蔡易\n餘等20 人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正\n草案」案、(九)本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)本院\n委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正\n草案」案、(十一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及\n第三十九條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133301_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":0.41909375000000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.484718750000003,"end":13.73346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.93596875,"end":14.965343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.10034375,"end":15.94409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.95159375,"end":23.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.76159375,"end":22.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.16659375,"end":23.301593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.90909375,"end":27.047843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.364093750000002,"end":29.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.047218750000003,"end":33.93284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.455968750000004,"end":36.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.51471875,"end":39.704093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":40.345343750000005,"end":41.96534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.92721875,"end":43.939718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.525968750000004,"end":50.132843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.275968750000004,"end":55.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.70159375,"end":57.82784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.67159375000001,"end":61.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.55284375,"end":63.93659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.76346875,"end":70.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":70.55159375000001,"end":77.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.71909375,"end":84.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.16534375,"end":87.42659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.76409375,"end":88.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.40096875,"end":90.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.51471875,"end":93.18096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.73784375000001,"end":98.49659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.00284375000001,"end":103.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.13721875,"end":105.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.25909375,"end":113.39721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.46034375,"end":116.55284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.83971875,"end":118.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.16846875,"end":119.87721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.53534375000001,"end":121.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.40846875000001,"end":124.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.66534375,"end":130.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":130.35659375,"end":134.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.74409375000002,"end":138.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.51971875,"end":140.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.76846875,"end":141.42659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.98346875000001,"end":143.51909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.04221875000002,"end":148.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":148.78409375,"end":151.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.75409375,"end":152.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":153.07034375,"end":153.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.30221875,"end":155.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.04034375,"end":156.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.74471875,"end":160.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.71471875,"end":163.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":164.00534375,"end":170.60346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.65409375000002,"end":170.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.68784375,"end":183.19221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":183.19221875000002,"end":187.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.64784375000002,"end":183.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.05659375000002,"end":192.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.64284375000003,"end":189.09846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.72659375,"end":200.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.97409375,"end":202.80096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.10471875000002,"end":206.90159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.13346875000002,"end":209.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.52971875,"end":211.93034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":212.09909375,"end":215.20409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.28409375,"end":220.84034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.81909375,"end":226.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":227.35409375,"end":230.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":230.64471875,"end":232.55159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.06221875000003,"end":232.48409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.72034375,"end":235.62284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","st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。"},{"start":430.455,"end":430.876,"text":"負責任負責任負責任負責任"},{"start":447.119,"end":451.2,"text":"像科技產業園區裡面的這個資訊系統那所以這個系統是互通的那另外就是說我們最近也辦非常出名會就像委員講的我們也會跟大家講說這個的申報SOP是怎麼樣那跟誰申報那另外也會透過舊的原來工業區的各個"},{"start":467.547,"end":495.085,"text":"區的承辦同仁要跟區內的廠商說明說你怎麼申報那應該向誰申報相關的系統都讓他非常簡便的可以瞭解是所以這個部分很重要有對這個其實比法則還重要尤其好接下來就是下面這個最後一項直轄市縣市主管應將第一項工廠資料建檔列管並轉資有關機關是我上次在"},{"start":496.389,"end":519.188,"text":"內政委員會去年質詢時就要求有關機關就要給消防機關,消防機關不是到了現場才知道危險物品的狀況,平常就要知道一發生刺激的時候就知道很清楚"},{"start":520.322,"end":522.043,"text":"第三十八條之十四、第三十一條條文修正草案案 案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}