{"error":false,"id":["151670"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151670,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151670","日期":"2024-04-24","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-24T11:41:17+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-24T11:46:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/534e6c42fa7aedb34eace2581ba6559fa8d86c0863c2f2caeadb1108e4b844320754f09c682f03845ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:41:17 - 11:46:58","會議時間":"2024-04-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關經濟部及所屬主管預算凍結案等21案。\n二、審查：\n（一）行政院函請審議「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員黃捷等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）本院委員黃建賓等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）本院委員林思銘等23人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十二條及第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）本院委員王美惠等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）本院委員邱議瑩等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）本院委員蔡易餘等20人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（八）本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（十）本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n【4月24日及25日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":755,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時41分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。2021年我回到民間社會了以後，接到一個檢舉就開始追蹤，這個牽涉到我們臺中火力發電廠有一個129億的標案，其中有一個基樁工程，基樁要灌水泥，上面的結構物才會穩，而這個基樁工程造假。當然接到這個檢舉以後，我必須要實事求是的去看，一看後發現還滿誇張的，同樣的單據有不同的出貨內容；然後實際上面的單據跟假的單據中，虛灌的水泥量大概多了一倍以上。把這些單據全部都蒐集完了以後，我大概在法律上面的確信是，這一定有造假的問題，所以我非常的關心，在2021年9月的時候，我就具狀向臺北地檢署提出告發，告發完了以後，因為我已經公開揭露這件事情了，那個時候台電公司他們有針對這件事情做了一些說明，他們說這個水泥量初步研判尚屬合理，沒有發現明顯變造的痕跡，也沒有辦法認為這個公司有偽造的狀況。","我們實際來看最後的結果，今年4月，就是這個月，弘展公司偽造水泥出廠單，獲利兩千多萬，已經正式被起訴了，我看那個起訴書的內容，跟我們當初檢舉的內容，基本上是一致的，但是它的規模、它造假的狀況，讓人怵目驚心。我具體的跟部長報告，從2019到2020年，偽造了1,246張水泥出廠單；應該使用2萬將近3萬噸的水泥，結果只使用了一萬七千多噸，大概實際使用的水泥比他說要用的水泥只有達六成；偽造施工紀錄表，甚至在鑽芯取樣的時候，是廠商先拿假的樣體偷偷搬到現場去，搬到現場去之後，我也不曉得，鑽芯取樣的時候，現場應該要有人監督啊，但是他們沒有人監督，就拿假的東西出來。現在取出了120支基樁，其中有97支是造假的。我看完這個狀況以後怵目驚心！我只擔心一件事情，第一個，當初台電的調查是怎麼做的？第二個，中火這個工程真的安全嗎？這件事情部長應該有掌握吧？上一屆國會已經有委員提過這樣的問題，甚至在總質詢的時候，蘇貞昌院長都承諾要正視。"],["王部長美花：因為委員今天臨時提這樣的一個問題，如果我的印象沒錯的話，這個部分台電也有請專家來看，有關委員講的，第一個，造假是一個問題，第二個，安全是一個問題，安全部分我記得的理解是那個專家判定好像是沒有問題，造假的部分，坦白講，我不太記得後續台電是怎麼處理的。"],["黃委員國昌：這個案子拖了滿久的，從我2021年具狀告發到現在2024年4月起訴，所以我是利用這次質詢提醒部長這件事情：兩個層次當中，造假已經是確定的，所以台電該檢討的是，當初的行政調查到底是怎麼做的，因為我今天秀出當初台電的行政調查報告給部長看，台電全部在文過飾非啊！第二個層次是安全性，現在我一個最基本的問題是，如果當初的行政調查報告都已經sloppy到這種程度了，我們要不要重新檢視？當初台電告訴社會大眾說安全沒有問題，這件事值得信任嗎？部長。"],["王部長美花：我記得台電是有請專業的去判斷安全有沒有問題。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦！部長，你所謂台電請專業的來做判斷這件事情，那個專業的報告是不是可以提供給各位委員？因為大家都很關心這個事嘛！","主席站起來了，我只問最後一個事情：為什麼這個違法前科累累、這麼嚴重的廠商到目前為止都還沒有刊登政府公報、予以停權？台電有沒有報？還是行政程序沒有做完？部長可以回去瞭解嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個我再瞭解一下。"],["黃委員國昌：這種爛廠商絕對要把它踢出去啦！絕對不要再讓它做政府工程了！可以嗎？"],["王部長美花：我再瞭解，是。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：後續再請經濟部去進行瞭解。","好，謝謝。","接下來請洪孟楷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":186,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-9","speakers":["邱議瑩","黃建賓","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","林思銘","林岱樺","張嘉郡","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(八)本院委員馬文君等18人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四及第三十一條條文修正\n草案」案、(九)本院委員鍾佳濱等17人擬具「工廠管理輔導法部分條文修正草案」案、(十)本院\n委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及第三十九條條文修正\n草案」案、(十一)本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「工廠管理輔導法第二十八條之十四、第三十一條及\n第三十九條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133301_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.063468750000002,"end":9.548468750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.869093750000001,"end":10.695968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.872218750000002,"end":17.918468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.918468750000002,"end":17.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.96909375,"end":18.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.36971875,"end":24.06096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.53346875,"end":28.58346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.05596875,"end":32.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.56596875,"end":33.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.96659375,"end":35.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.04221875,"end":38.48909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.096593750000004,"end":42.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.12971875,"end":44.32784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.665343750000005,"end":45.610343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.234718750000006,"end":47.38221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.517218750000005,"end":49.05284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.710968750000006,"end":51.55034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.98909375,"end":52.34346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.73159375,"end":53.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.99721875,"end":55.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.017843750000004,"end":58.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.570343750000006,"end":58.789718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.36346875,"end":62.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.586593750000006,"end":64.62846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.05034375000001,"end":65.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":65.94471875,"end":66.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.36221875000001,"end":69.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.45471875,"end":72.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.61034375,"end":73.70721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.87596875,"end":74.82096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.51284375,"end":78.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.25909375,"end":83.20784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.74784375,"end":85.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.58721875,"end":89.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.67096875,"end":98.07471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.47971875,"end":100.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.55096875000001,"end":102.34409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.47471875000001,"end":103.99784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.92596875000001,"end":107.32221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.79471875,"end":108.95909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.53284375000001,"end":111.06846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.99659375,"end":114.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.51096875,"end":117.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.45971875000001,"end":118.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.45534375000001,"end":120.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.78846875,"end":123.52221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.87659375000001,"end":124.21409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.56846875000001,"end":126.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.06596875000001,"end":130.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.26346875000002,"end":133.27596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.08596875,"end":140.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":140.58284375,"end":145.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.33721875,"end":147.87284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.24409375000002,"end":155.85471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.59721875,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.04409375,"end":170.53596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.58534375000002,"end":181.13346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.75784375,"end":183.79971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.59284375000001,"end":186.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.14096875,"end":187.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.11971875,"end":188.77784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.21659375000002,"end":191.76471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.06846875000002,"end":201.83909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.44221875000002,"end":231.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.81346875000003,"end":205.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":231.75846875000002,"end":235.52159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.91409375,"end":237.52971875000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