{"error":false,"id":["151730"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151730,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151730","日期":"2024-04-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-25T10:02:44+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-25T10:12:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce152b1be0a2ef0e3369c97d93183120460dc68e374cd8c4bed043ec86b666c9fb855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"10:02:44 - 10:12:11","會議時間":"2024-04-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、法務部、原住民族委員會、內政部、衛生福利部就「就業服務法上路逾三十年，針對就業促進、歧視禁止、外國勞動力權益保障等面向進行全面檢視」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":478,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（10時2分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：有請部長。"],["許部長銘春：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。今天好幾位委員都覺得部長是勞動部任期最長的一個部長，我相信部長在這6年多當中，應該有很多感想，也有很多事情在剩下不到1個月時間內，可能也沒辦法去完成的。我想請教部長，你覺得在這6年當中，一直到現在，你覺得還有什麼地方很可惜，沒有在你任內去把它完成的？"],["許部長銘春：當然就是攸關我們廣大勞工退休、經濟、生活安全的勞保年金改革，這是非常複雜的議題，也是一個大工程，雖然沒有完成，但至少我做到一點就是撥補。我跟委員報告，從2020開始撥補200億到今年的1,200億，再加上特別預算，整個撥補金額達到2,670億，它的確讓我們整個基金的財務穩定，我也跟委員報告，去年的基金餘額創新高，去年的餘額達8,700多億，因為有這些撥補的挹注，再加上我們同仁也非常辛苦，勞工的老本，大家很努力的去投資、運用，為他們獲取更好的報酬。其實我覺得讓我們基金能夠穩定、讓勞工安心之外，當然其他的面向，可能還要大家再繼續溝通，然後大家集思廣益，能夠求取共識，再繼續往後走。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以部長認為在你任內可能比較遺憾的就是勞保年金的改革，沒辦法在你任內去把它完成。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：因為部長的經驗非常豐富，在基層也有很多工會都覺得部長是一個很貼近民意的部長，而且部長也時常到地方傾聽這些工會的聲音，所以我們也希望未來你跟新任的何部長能夠有一些經驗的傳承，不論是移工的議題或者是低薪的議題，或者是我們勞保年金改革的議題，未來要怎麼做，我覺得這也是一個很好的經驗傳承，剛剛大家都很關心這個部分，而這個經驗的傳承也是非常的重要，所以也請部長未來能夠提供更多的經驗，讓我們的準部長可以很快地上手。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為我跟何準部長，不僅是公務上的好同事，其實這幾年的相處，也變成了好朋友、好姐妹，他有任何需要我來提供一些我的經驗等等，我都非常樂意來協助他，這個都沒有問題。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。部長今天特別提到就業服務法上路超過30年了，剛剛也有幾位委員提到這部法應該要大修了，我針對移工的議題想請教部長，關於移工的議題，尤其我們勞動部跟印度簽MOU的時候，很多人就很關心，屆時會有另外一個國家的移工來源國，這對臺灣來講是好的；但有更多人會希望未來是不是可以用直接聘僱的方式，我也看到，勞動部到目前為止是採雙軌，一個是直聘，一個是透過仲介，但我看到直聘的比例真的是太低了，為什麼直聘的比例這麼低？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，有時候這就是雇主他的選擇，當然過去的直聘也有可能比較不容易使用的缺點，再加上主要是有些來源國像越南、印尼，其實對這個部分是消極的，他們不希望走直聘，所以這都造成我們直聘的功效一直不彰，就這個部分，針對未來新的來源國印度，我們希望能夠將重點擺在這，跟它談出一個好的直聘模式來引進印度的移工，我想這也是現在朝野各界大家所期待的。我覺得大家的關心、大家的期待也可以讓我們後續的工作層級會議、我們在跟印度方談的時候，可以做為一個參據，就是我們的民意是這樣子、我們委員們的希望是這樣子，其實這對雙方都好，對雇主也好，對它的移工的保障等各方面是不是會更周全……"],["黃委員秀芳：現在我們是採雙軌，可是為什麼直聘的比例，感覺就是不到百分之一，如果是這樣子的話，是不是因為你們的整個流程太繁瑣？"],["許部長銘春：對，其實這幾年……"],["黃委員秀芳：如果業者要來申請的話，也不是那麼容易，反觀透過仲介就是有人直接服務，但我擔心的是，未來如果可以直聘的話，你們需要更多的人力，可是我發現我們很多的公部門，只要是這一種的，可能你們就會變成委外去經營，這樣的委外經營，跟後面透過仲介來做，好像也沒有什麼兩樣！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為組改以後精簡人事，但是我們現在公務員其實很辛苦，事情越做越多。"],["黃委員秀芳：是啊！"],["許部長銘春：像我們的移工管理組就不到70人，我們要管理75萬的移工，真的是非常非常辛苦，有時候實在是不忍苛責他們，所以這個部分就是沒有辦法，但我也謝謝行政院人事行政總處的支持，它有給我一些員額，但是人要補上來也不容易啊！因為大家一看到就知道這個單位很辛苦，不一定要進來；第二個，像我們移工管理組的人才培養是需要時間的，因為我們移工管理的法令多如牛毛，沒有相當時間的培養，還有實務的操作，其實沒有辦法很快上手，所以這些都造成我們在人力上會比較困難；像我們現在的外國人事務中心，直聘就沒有辦法做，我人就這麼多，我沒有委外，你要叫我同仁怎麼做？做不來啊！當然我們現在就儘量把它科技化、數位化，這些未來都是可以努力的。"],["黃委員秀芳：可是我覺得這個文書流程應該可以簡化。"],["許部長銘春：我們都在持續優化，報告委員，我都跟同仁要求要簡政便民，簡政不僅讓人民易於使用，也減輕自己的負擔，所以這都是我們要精進的方向，因此，我們會持續來檢討。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我們看到的是你們目前已經有雙軌制了，可是看到直聘的成效，我覺得真的非常非常的低落，所以未來印度移工要過來的話，如果要用直聘、直接聘僱的方式，你們所需要的人力應該也是更多。"],["許部長銘春：這個就要拜託委員支持。"],["黃委員秀芳：未來當然是全力支持。可是你們可能也要去考慮，就是你們現在是70幾個人來管理……"],["許部長銘春：75萬的移工。"],["黃委員秀芳：75萬的移工，未來如果直接聘僱的話，業務量勢必更多，所以你們需要更多人。為此，我希望你們能讓一些文書流程更簡便，讓想申請的人可以透過網路直接申請，即便遇到事情，也可以透過網路直接詢問，如此也許可以讓人力再精簡一點，否則直接聘僱的話，那我覺得真的需要太多、太多人力了，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員秀芳：另外，我們也非常感謝部長，很多工會理事長都說要給部長誇獎一下，我也覺得部長做得不錯。接下來就是要把好的經驗傳承下去，需要改進的、需要繼續延續的，部長可以給準部長一些經驗傳承。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員。"],["黃委員秀芳：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃秀芳委員的發言。下一位我們請涂權吉委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","蘇清泉","鄭天財Sra 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