{"error":false,"id":["151763"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151763,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151763","日期":"2024-04-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-25T12:12:08+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-25T12:20:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/37a05b44d500ce15e5fd4cb95169ad28c97d93183120460dc68e374cd8c4bed099b21507dc6a303f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"12:12:08 - 12:20:45","會議時間":"2024-04-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長、法務部、原住民族委員會、內政部、衛生福利部就「就業服務法上路逾三十年，針對就業促進、歧視禁止、外國勞動力權益保障等面向進行全面檢視」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1030,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（12時12分）謝謝主席，請「阿春仔」部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：張委員你好。"],["張委員啓楷：部長你好。我們是老朋友。昨晚發生一件很不幸的事情，有一位本來要成為我們國家未來的棒球明星選手，他是在臺中臺灣體育大學王牌的守護神，結果昨晚被失聯移工駕車撞擊，經搶救後不治了，一條年輕的生命就走掉了。你知道這件事嗎？"],["許部長銘春：委員，很抱歉，我早上沒有follow到，因為我趕著來立法院，所以這則沒follow到。"],["張委員啓楷：這個移工會失聯，當然也有他可憐的地方。去年監察院提出了「一群在臺灣沒有身分的人，移工為什麼失聯？」，就是要探討這個問題，我看你們也提了很多相應的措施，包括要召開跨部會的合作、加強輔導雇主加強選工、避免雇主的不當對待等等。你看這個案子，可憐的失聯移工撞死了一個年輕人，他應該是沒有駕照，也沒有強制保險，所以應該也沒辦法理賠，這事情很嚴重！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個我們會來協助，會後我會請同仁……"],["張委員啓楷：你也是很有名的律師，這是人命關天的事情！大家都是很善良的人。"],["許部長銘春：我們會來提供協助，520後我也可以來幫忙。"],["張委員啓楷：你看這個失聯移工出現了這個問題，等到起訴、審判完，可能連審判都沒有，大概就只能遣返，而且他沒有保險，這個年輕人家裡面大概也不可能得到什麼理賠，所以請想一下看怎麼幫忙他們。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝委員跟我們說這個案件，我會來處理。"],["張委員啓楷：第二，監察院去年底提出這個意見之後，你們說要加強處理這個問題，現在失聯的移工有減少嗎？"],["許部長銘春：失聯率有降，報告委員，最高是在111年的時候，是5.96%，去年降到4.2%，有降下來啦！"],["張委員啓楷：部長，那天監察院提出意見後，你們有說人數有在趨緩，你剛才也說有下降，請看這個趨勢圖……"],["許部長銘春：我是說去年。"],["張委員啓楷：「阿春仔」部長，這是勞動部的資料、圖表，我覺得兩個地方會是大問題，第一個就是2021年3月到2022年8月，像沖天炮這樣衝上去，這是第一個，這可能因為疫情，可是這個趨勢圖最嚴重的是什麼？就是衝上去之後3年居高不下，去年底你本來說要處理，結果是人越來越多，創歷史新高，現在是8萬5,229人。"],["許部長銘春：委員，這不只包括移工，連外國人士都包括在裡面。"],["張委員啓楷：你的意思是不只有失聯移工而已？"],["許部長銘春：這不是只有移工，這裡是包括逾期居留的外來人口，外來人口不是只有移工。"],["張委員啓楷：現在扣掉後剩多少人？失聯移工你現在的統計是多少？"],["許部長銘春：我剛才扣掉，大概……"],["蔡署長孟良：我跟委員報告，現在如果以失聯發生的移工來看，像111年的人數是最高，一年有4.1萬發生失聯，但是經過我們跟移民署做一些加強查緝工作，112年，就是隔年，一年當中就已經降到3.1萬，就是從4.1萬降到3.1萬，這是第一個；第二個，比率的部分，因為比率會受到整體人數的影響，疫後我們一直有在引進，在移工人數增加的情況下，我們的失聯率還是有改善、下降，現在失聯率已經從最高的5.96%降到4.2%了。"],["張委員啓楷：你的意思是進來比較多……"],["蔡署長孟良：對！對！對！"],["張委員啓楷：失聯比率算是下降，但人數看起來還是不少，對不對？"],["蔡署長孟良：但是人數……"],["張委員啓楷：我先講兩個重點，第一個，當然我知道那時候衝上去是因為疫情，所以後來疫情結束以後，你們做了一些改善。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["張委員啓楷：可是老實講，人數還是多的，我現在比較關心的是第二部分，就是比例可能有降低，可是人數還是多，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對，所以我們要繼續努力。"],["張委員啓楷：對，不要讓人家誤解了這個數目字，不要讓人家覺得好像在粉飾太平或者沒有解決問題，這樣也不好。"],["許部長銘春：沒有！沒有！委員，我們絕對不會粉飾太平，我們會面對問題，只是要跟大家說的是，的確是有下降，因為看失聯率是比較準。"],["張委員啓楷：比率有降，但人數可能沒有……"],["許部長銘春：人數可能……"],["張委員啓楷：因為進來的人比較多，跑掉的也多，所以……"],["許部長銘春：對，但是我們會持續努力，因為這件事情可能還要一段時間，就像疫情開始之後，它也是延續到第三年突然衝上來，我們現在邊境管制解封了，各種該開放的我們也開放了，還有一些媒合，包括調整家庭看護工的薪資待遇等等，我有信心後面會持續降下來。"],["張委員啓楷：會持續降？"],["許部長銘春：對！但不是這樣我們就滿足了，絕對不會因此就滿足，絕對還是覺得不滿意，我們要繼續努力。"],["張委員啓楷：部長，這些人要怎麼找回來？你知道這些失聯移工在什麼地方嗎？你們怎麼找人？"],["許部長銘春：其實我們知道現在是營造、農業最多，當然查緝是移民署他們的權責，我們當然是配合的單位，就是國安團隊要來配合，這個部分……"],["張委員啓楷：我的意思是，如果知道就要馬上去處理，對不對？一直留在那邊……"],["許部長銘春：移民署……"],["張委員啓楷：我們當然不希望這種不幸的事情再發生，他們在那邊也是可憐，說實在的，失聯的移工如果真的生病了怎麼辦？現在還會出現什麼狀況？有些是生了小孩，就是黑數寶寶，老實說，你如果知道這樣的情況真的是會掉眼淚的，我們要讓那種不幸的事情可以少一點，所以如果知道就趕快去找，要就媒合他去做新的工作，如果是不合法的、已經不行了，可以送回去的就送回去，要不然對臺灣也是一個社會問題。"],["許部長銘春：移民署也會加強查緝，包括像去年就鼓勵他們自動到案等等，我們採取各種多元的措施來解決這個問題，這個問題我們都是跨部會……"],["張委員啓楷：你現在要離開這邊了，我們來做一個找回失聯移工的計畫，好不好？來得及做嗎？半年內最少要把10%的失聯移工找回來，這個標準應該不高吧？一年內20%，可以嗎？我們訂個目標，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：委員，這是一個很好的期許，我們來跟移民署一起努力，好不好？"],["張委員啓楷：訂這個目標，你給我一個計畫，我本來想說一個月內提出計畫，但你就離開了，要找佩珊嗎？"],["許部長銘春：沒關係，業務單位還在，然後新的部長會來，不用煩惱！"],["張委員啓楷：要不要早一點，在你520離開之前，提給我這個計畫？"],["許部長銘春：這個有點困難，我現在只剩下幾天了。"],["張委員啓楷：就是一個月內給我這個計畫，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["張委員啓楷：這個計畫你怎麼訂，當然就是要知道人在哪裡，早一點去把他找回來。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["張委員啓楷：第二個，目標我們非常明確喔，半年要降10%、一年降20%，這個要求應該不高吧，對不對？OK嗎？你給我一個計畫。"],["許部長銘春：我們跟移民署來討論，因為這個要跟移民署討論的啦。"],["張委員啓楷：對，討論完，第一個，一個月內要給我這個計畫，第二個就是裡面最少要有這兩個重點，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["蔡署長孟良：那個內容我們再跟移民署來討論。"],["張委員啓楷：好喔？可以喔？"],["許部長銘春：一個月內。"],["蔡署長孟良：一個月沒有問題。"],["張委員啓楷：你回去高雄我還是會去找你，這個案就這樣定了喔？OK？至少這個目標要達到，一年內要降20%……"],["許部長銘春：好，我們一個月內提出具體計畫。"],["張委員啓楷：其實這算是做好事啦，不要讓他們流落在外面，如果可以、合適再工作，就幫他們轉介，真的不行了，就讓他們回去啦，好不好？避免不幸事情再發生，謝謝。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝張啓楷委員。","接下來請吳春城委員發言"]],"agenda":{"page_end":424,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","王育敏","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","蘇清泉","鄭天財Sra 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二零二一年的三月到了2022年的八月像沖天炮這樣衝上去嘛 對不對這是第一個 這可是疫情啦齁可是最嚴重的 我覺得痛嚼痛的 這個趨勢就是痛嚼痛的 什麼就是衝上去之後三年居高不下"},{"start":199.244,"end":225.344,"text":"對不對?就表示說你去年代你本錢你說要去處理啊現在結果人越來越多現在創歷史新高現在是85,829億這是包括不是移工啦包括其他外國人士都包括在裡面你都不只是私人的移工嗎?這不是只是移工喔他這裡包括預期居留的外來人口外來人口不是只是移工現在剋掉多多少人?那個私人的移工你現在的統計是多少?"},{"start":227.586,"end":232.138,"text":"我看扣掉了齁,大概...我們現在在那個...那個..."},{"start":236.468,"end":260.908,"text":"我跟委員報告現在如果以失聯發生的移工像111年其實人數是最高一年有4.1萬發生失聯但是因為經過我們跟移民組因為要加強做一些查詢112年就隔年已經降到一年降到3.1萬就是從4.1萬降到3.1萬這第一個第二個比率因為比率會受到整體人數因為我們現在疫後因為一直在引進"},{"start":261.929,"end":284.87,"text":"因為移工人數增加之下,但是我們的失聯率還是改善下降。我們現在失聯率已經從最高5.96%現在已經降到4.2%了。你可不可以進來比較多嗎?失聯比例算是降,可是人數看起來還不足對不對?但是人數也降。但是我想我先說兩個重點,第一當然我知道那時候衝上去後來是因為疫情嘛,所以後來疫情結束以後你們做一些改善嘛。"},{"start":285.87,"end":309.499,"text":"可是老實講人數還是多的,我現在同關心的其實是第一部分就是說你雖然比例可能有降低,可是人數還是多嘛對不對?我們不要讓人家,第一個不要誤解了這個順目字,第二個不要讓人家覺得好像粉飾太平,或者沒有解決問題,這樣就很好我以為我們絕對不會粉飾太平,我們的面對問題,這是跟大家說的,說的確是有降,因為要看失聯率比較重比例有降,人數可能沒有"},{"start":311.319,"end":334.587,"text":"因為進來人比較多,跑掉的也多,所以...對,但是我們持續會努力,因為這個事情可能還要一段時間,你就像疫情之後,它也是延續了第三年,哇,全部都撐起來。那我們現在邊境管制解封了,我們現在各種,包括開放我們的開放,還有一些媒合,包括提供家庭康復工的薪資待遇等等。"},{"start":335.888,"end":346.483,"text":"我覺得我有信心後面會持續降下來。會持續降。會持續降。那我們先來看一下怎麼做。所以不是說我們這樣就覺得不滿意。我們繼續努力。國長,你人要怎麼找回來?你知道現在的四年的移工第三所在嗎?"},{"start":354.298,"end":381.266,"text":"你怎麼找人?因為這個部份大概...其實我們知道現在大部分都是在營造農業最多啦。營造農業?茶器當然茶器是移民署他們的選擇啦。我們當然是配合的單位,國安團隊也配合啦。這個部份當然...我意思是知道就快要處理啊。對不對?一直留在那裡。移民署...我們當然不希望這種不幸的事情再發生啦。對不對?如果說他們在那裡也可憐,說實在的。因為你說那10年的移工"},{"start":384.701,"end":405.964,"text":"對。"},{"start":406.044,"end":422.472,"text":"因為我們他這邊也加強查緝啦,包括像去年就鼓勵他們自動到案等等,這個我們都各種多元的措施來解決這個問題,這個問題就是我們都是報告…阿聖部長,你現在要離開這邊,我們來做一個叫做找回失聯移工的計畫好不好,會不會遭到,來來看看,來。半年來上次就要把10%的這個失聯移工找回來,今年這個標準應該不高吧?"},{"start":436.83,"end":460.371,"text":"20%可以這樣嗎?我們訂個目標好不好?我們來跟這個委員這個齁是一個很好的一個提取啊我們來跟移民署齁這個會來拍片好不好?訂這個目標啊你給我一個計畫一個我本來想說一個院內提計畫你就照去啊我早早配在那裡啊沒關係啊這樣還沒啦業務單位還在然後新的部長會來不用煩惱你要不要早一點你520離開之前你給我這個計畫"},{"start":464.95,"end":477.779,"text":"這是一個月內給我這個計劃好不好這個計劃你怎麼訂當然就是要早一點去知道人在哪裡早一點去把它找回來那第二個目標我們非常明確喔半年要降10%一年降20%所以要求應該不高吧對不對"},{"start":478.971,"end":481.532,"text":"我們跟移民署來討論,因為這是要跟移民署來討論。"},{"start":499.02,"end":499.321,"text":"謝謝張祺凱委員接下來請吳春晨"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}