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Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。\n\n備註：4月29日（星期一）、5月1日(星期三)【兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":918,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時24分）謝謝主席。我們再請花次跟移民署署長一起來好嗎？"],["主席：請花次長、鐘署長。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有原民會。"],["主席：原民會是大概下午。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：下午嗎？好，我們先來討論這個問題，因為4分鐘而已，謝謝。"],["花次長敬群：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：新住民基本法，次長你支持嗎？"],["花次長敬群：我們多討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多討論是支持嗎？"],["花次長敬群：如果說真的有它的迫切重要或必要性……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有迫切需要啊！"],["花次長敬群：當然我們絕對……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就支持了？"],["花次長敬群：就應該要做一個適合的討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：署長，你支持吧？"],["鐘署長景琨：我的意見跟次長一樣。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：意見是怎麼樣一樣？如果有需要就支持？你是移民署署長，你認為有沒有需要？"],["鐘署長景琨：這個我剛剛講了……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是嚴肅的議題，不要笑。有沒有需要？你認為有沒有需要？"],["鐘署長景琨：我們目前就是希望再把這些問題多做一些釐清。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多做一些釐清，是還有哪裡不釐清？他已經來我們這邊這麼久了，像麥委員來了28年，美玲更讚了，都幾十年了，你這樣子幾十年、廾、三十年都還釐不清，每一次選舉，每一黨的候選人都說，我們最重視新住民，有行政權還不做，花次，為什麼目前為止行政院沒有版本？為什麼？是不重視還是還沒有整合成功？"],["花次長敬群：都不是，我們絕對重視，而且……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：為什麼到現在所有各政黨，中國國民黨提出……"],["花次長敬群：報告委員，不是說提出版本就表示很棒……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：民進黨也提出，民眾黨也提出。"],["花次長敬群：因為有可能會有副作用，我們要釐清。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：棒不棒不是您說的。"],["花次長敬群：我們要釐清它的副作用，看哪一種方案比較好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，但問題是你到目前為止仍舊沒有版本，表示你不重視嘛！你連版本都沒有，要怎麼討論？"],["花次長敬群：這樣講是不對的，沒有說有版本就……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不是不對的，那你永遠讓他們沒有版本嗎？"],["花次長敬群：其實我們不斷地在精進各種對新住民的協助，而……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你不斷地精進，精進了幾十年還不夠嗎？"],["花次長敬群：其實現在的版本還有很多副作用，還有很多問題需要釐清。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼叫副作用？你這樣講更嚴肅囉！你要講清楚喔！"],["花次長敬群：好比說新住民的定義是什麼，可能就要講得非常非常清楚，不然……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：新住民的定義，目前的人員10年內增加10萬，現在的總人數大概60萬，如果再包括新住民的家庭成員、子女，超過百萬！都已經超過百萬，難道我們臺灣還不重視他嗎？不重視嗎？"],["花次長敬群：報告委員，其實全世界各個國家都沒有新住民基本法……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你針對臺灣、我們自己，你管到這裡來，請問……"],["花次長敬群：其實新住民並不是一個一輩子永久的身分，所以這個部分有很多地方需要被討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：他們所碰到的問題，一個政府如果是有為要處理……"],["花次長敬群：當然要處理，他們遇到……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你怎麼處理？你的語言、你的文化……"],["花次長敬群：所以它未必是要訂基本法嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們一年度發展基金多少錢？"],["花次長敬群：10億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一年度的基金10億，你們不斷地開課程，你們有沒有注意到一個問題？你們將每一個人抓來上課，上完課之後呢？我再請問，上完課之後，懂的人他繼續要怎麼生活？署長，你來回答。每一年花10億，你所有的課程一直上，對不對？"],["鐘署長景琨：我們不是每年花10億，是基金的規模10億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！一個……"],["鐘署長景琨：剛剛像委員講的，其實我們是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請你暫停你的回答。我們的發展基金10億的規模就在這裡，對不對？然後每一年你們會辦活動，給他們講習，有重要慶典時，請他們穿國服出來，表示你們尊重他們。本席具體請教，已經上完課的人，接下來怎麼辦？告訴我你輔導他們什麼？"],["鐘署長景琨：我們其實是看他的需求，比如說他要就業或是怎麼樣，其實在各地我們都有一個新住民家庭服務中心，我們的服務站也有所謂的新住民家庭網絡，我們來協助他們，只要他們有需求，我們也有個案的協助，就是只要新住民有需求，我們會有相關的機制讓他們可以來觸及，我們也會提供各種協助。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是面對到的問題很嚴峻、很考驗、困難重重，表示目前我們所做的沒有辦法去應對新住民所需要的，譬如說他們遭受到家暴、他們的工作權益，你們叫他來上課，上完課之後，你怎麼輔導他？你們的輔導成功率有多少？你們一年的KPI、要怎麼樣協助他們，有多少？你可以告訴我嗎？"],["鐘署長景琨：剛剛委員所提的，比如說遭受家暴或怎麼樣，其實這些都有相關的法令，我們也會做通報，也會做轉介，相關的問題，我們也不可能他發生家暴問題，我們不處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：次長跟署長在這裡，準總統賴清德自己的政見就包括建立國家級統一通譯制度、規劃培訓課程、認證考試、通譯費用及相關規範等等。請問目前你們的規劃是什麼？"],["花次長敬群：現在已經在做了，而且通譯的精進和薪水的提高今年都已經開始了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席再請教包括黑戶寶寶的問題……"],["主席：瓊瓔委員，時間到了，等一下逐條再來討論，謝謝。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要再一次請教次長，你代表內政部，署長也在這裡，你支不支持這個法案？"],["花次長敬群：我們支持幫新住民照顧得更好，讓他們生活更好，但是方案上面，我們可以討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：支不支持法案？支不支持專法？"],["花次長敬群：方案上面，可以討論。作法上面，可以討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請教支不支持專法？"],["花次長敬群：我沒有支持或不支持，如果它比較好，我們當然支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有支持、不支持？"],["花次長敬群：我沒有支持或不支持，如果它更好，當然支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：行政院的版本什麼時候要來？"],["花次長敬群：我覺得方案上面如果可行，我們就來做嘛！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還遙遙無期嘛！怎麼對新住民交代呢？"],["花次長敬群：今天不要把這個問題變成這種轉換，並不是有專法就比較好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：把你認為可以的書面資料給本席，好嗎？"],["主席：謝謝次長，謝謝署長，謝謝瓊瓔委員。","繼續請徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":448,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","牛煦庭","張智倫","張宏陸","黃建賓","許宇甄","王美惠","黃捷","丁學忠","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","吳琪銘","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","羅美玲"],"page_start":345,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133601_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、「新住民權益保障法草案」及「新住民基本法草案」：(一)審查委員羅美玲等22人擬具「新\n住民權益保障法草案」案、(二)審查台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「新住民基本法草案」案、(三)審查委\n員張智倫等18人擬具「新住民基本法草案」案、(四)審查國民黨黨團擬具「新住民基本法草案」\n案、( 五) 審查委員蘇巧慧等 26 人擬具「新住民基本法草案」案；二、繼續審查委員鄭天財 Sra\nKacaw 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