{"error":false,"id":["151932"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151932,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151932","日期":"2024-05-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-01T09:32:47+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-01T09:42:43+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:56","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466b4feae0e6a08eb2b8af7b9089f19fa5f77f5010e630711919fe6342ee0b0898265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"09:32:47 - 09:42:43","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部、交通部、大陸委員會、財團法人海峽交流基金會、原住民族委員會就「針對陸方開放大陸觀光客來台具體回應及作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":212,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（9時32分）謝謝主席，我們請邱主委，再請經濟處處長，還有海基會的副秘書長。"],["主席：請邱主委、請經濟處的葉處長，還有海基會的蔡副秘書長。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員好。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝主委，這是我們最後一次在這邊溝通交流。"],["邱主任委員太三：不會啦！我如果有需要，還是會去拜訪你啦！"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝。我今天也理解你在9點半以後要離開嘛！那麼我現在就幾個問題來請教你，主計總處在4月29號公布了110年家庭財富分配統計，它統計全臺灣家庭貧富之間的差距已經達到66.9倍，差距之大超乎想像。主計總處強調，這個是所謂的高度自由經濟發展的必然結果，在場的三位，你們同意嗎？請問主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：我想貧富差距確實是各國都關注的……"],["高金委員素梅：它說這是高度自由經濟發展的必然結果。"],["邱主任委員太三：我們大概可以看出幾個趨勢，大概資本主義國家的貧富差距，一定比社會主義國家還高。第二個，全球化的結果恐怕這個必然會這樣……"],["高金委員素梅：所以你是同意它的說法嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：不是，這個基本上必然會加劇，但是各國採取的政策是不是有效或是一樣，我不曉得。"],["高金委員素梅：好的，有政策，很好。"],["邱主任委員太三：我們當然可以比較全球化的結果，大概資本主義發達的國家其差距就愈大。"],["高金委員素梅：好，謝謝主委，你倒是提到了很重要的問題。我不同意這是高度自由經濟發展的必然結果，你剛剛談到「政策」，是的，我想請問一下主委，您一個月的薪資是多少？這是公開的嘛！20到25萬之間，對不對？"],["邱主任委員太三：大概20萬左右，加一個部長加給3萬9，感覺是23萬。"],["高金委員素梅：對，所以落在20到25萬當中嘛！"],["邱主任委員太三：對，在25萬以內。"],["高金委員素梅：您認為你們家的開銷夠嗎？"],["邱主任委員太三：當然坦白講，每一個人的家庭情況不一定一樣。"],["高金委員素梅：對你來說呢？"],["邱主任委員太三：像我這麼節儉的人，當然是夠啦！但是重點在後面……"],["高金委員素梅：好。"],["邱主任委員太三：我當律師的時候大概都是這個的好幾倍。"],["高金委員素梅：20到23萬之間，因為你節儉所以夠。所以您不像主計總處公布排名後20%的家庭，它的平均負債是405萬，所以我完全不同意主計總處所說的這種說法。臺灣社會的貧富不均，真的不是什麼必然的結果，它根本就是人為政策的惡果。我舉一個，以臺灣半導體的產業來講，今年他們的產值達到了新臺幣5兆，政府對這個半導體產業要電給電、要水給水、要地給地，他們稅金還特別地優惠，而這個產業的從業人員有32萬人，他們的平均收入是208萬元，政府給了他們所有的政策優惠，但是獲利的80%卻是被外資拿走了。","好，我們再回頭來看一下我們臺灣的觀光產業，按照2023年的產值，我們是7,500億，然後根據交通部觀光局的統計，觀光業的從業人力2023年是22萬4,618人，副署長，對吧？麻煩你也上台一下，謝謝。這項產業大部分都是服務業，就是剛剛麥玉珍講到的，最基層也有這個導覽人員。他們沒有像半導體產業那樣得到政府的支持，他們經歷過疫情的衝擊，他們期待政府能夠兌現選舉之前說要開放大陸觀光的選舉支票，可是又被民進黨政府跳票了。民進黨政府一直在講「等待對岸的善意」，達到它所謂「對等尊嚴」的政治訴求，因此不惜綁架了觀光產業，把這些觀光產業的人當作人肉盾牌、當作砲灰。但是這個被民進黨政府搞得奄奄一息的觀光產業背後，是22萬個家庭的生計喔！","今天我聽說，好像我們觀光產業的理事長也有來，他們也非常關心今天召委排的這一次的說明，所以為什麼那麼重要？因為我剛剛提到，有22萬個家庭的生計，這22萬個家庭的生計難道也是所謂自由經濟發展的必然結果嗎？當然不是。我剛剛看到了這些政策，你也同意我說的，有的時候是政策的問題，我認為這是民進黨他們以非常惡意的政策製造出來的貧窮惡果。","觀光的人口數，觀光署副署長也在，副署長，我們從2016年的44萬人降到22萬人，一半喔！所以我們現在幾乎有一半從事觀光產業的家庭可能淪為主計總處那個所謂20%的負債家庭。我們也看到非常多的新聞、非常多的報導，這些家庭根本是活不下去，所以我在這裡要呼籲我們的政府，還有我們台上的大官們，我們真的不要忘記了，我們的薪水也有這22萬家庭繳出去的稅金。所以如果我們的政府想要操弄善意，而沒有得到對岸回應的時候，你們的惡意就會讓這個觀光業的22萬個家庭背負沈重的負債，他們已經快要活不下去了。","所以我要再講一次，貧富不均不是什麼自由經濟發展的必然結果，這是政府惡意操弄政策的結果。當我們拿著所謂人民的這些血汗錢，或者是看著是人民已經要活不下去了，這些人民他們是會憤怒的啦！到時候他們燒起來，絕對不是現在我們打到的什麼弊端、什麼弊案、什麼光電幫，股票可以從他們資本額10萬，現在到達這麼高。我想，那會影響的是你們的政權喔！主委。"],["邱主任委員太三：我有兩個面向的回答，第一個，我想任何一個國家，它確實必須有它的產業政策，也就是它到底要發展哪一些產業，這個當然有得有失，強勢的當然希望，就像中國，它認為它的電動車會強，所以它高度補助電動車，其他產業也一樣，所以各國到底怎麼去決定它的產業政策……"],["高金委員素梅：我們對半導體產業也是特別優惠啊！"],["邱主任委員太三：我也不是經濟部，我也不是國科會……"],["高金委員素梅：那就看我們政府的……"],["邱主任委員太三：我當然同意在執行的過程中一定會產生偏差，這個偏差怎麼再去把它調整回來，這個我同意，但是一定有得有失……"],["高金委員素梅：對，所以我剛剛講到半導體產業他們有32萬人口，但是獲利的80%全部都是外資……"],["邱主任委員太三：這是第一個啦！"],["高金委員素梅：不見得是我們本國的人獲利，可是我們的政府卻給它這麼多優惠，要電給電、要水給水，然後稅金又特別優惠，所以端看我們的政府到底在所謂的政策上面是偏袒哪一方，很顯然我剛剛以觀光業為主，我們的觀光業本來從平均有44萬人一直到現在22萬人，我們少了一半，然後這一半又因為沒有開放兩岸之間的觀光，所以造成這些人又活不下去，所以主委，今天我才會排這樣子的專案來跟您做交流……"],["邱主任委員太三：第二個……"],["高金委員素梅：我們是不是趕快要回頭看看22萬人……"],["邱主任委員太三：如果你要讓這22萬人有工作可以做，是要大陸趕快放它的人過來啊！它到現在才放馬祖而已，一年6,500個人，一天不到18個，而且只有馬祖地區，您這次去應該是要求說你應該給臺灣這22萬人有工作，這22萬人才會感謝你，是你不放你們的陸客來臺灣，這些人是要賺陸客的錢……"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！主委……"],["邱主任委員太三：對不對，所以委員，我講角度的問題您要思考。"],["高金委員素梅：主委，別忘了您的工作是人民納稅錢給你的，包括這22萬人。"],["邱主任委員太三：對，所以我們現在呼籲……"],["高金委員素梅：所以陸委會成立的目的跟宗旨就是希望能夠兩岸溝通……"],["邱主任委員太三：對，我們沒有溝通嗎？我們有溝通啊！它不要啊！"],["高金委員素梅：您作為這個位置，你最主要的就是好好去溝通，而不是一直在這邊講說那邊不釋出善意，所以最後我要大聲地講，我們的民進黨政府，包括主委您剛剛的態度，你們口口聲聲一直說要等待對岸的善意，我回過頭來，我看到的是你們這個行為就是對我們觀光產業還有這些家庭最大的惡意，好嗎？謝謝您，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：委員，我想如果我們……"],["高金委員素梅：我們就到此結束我們的對談了，謝謝。"],["邱主任委員太三：反而讓我們的人到大陸去消費，那22萬人恐怕明年度的收入會更加減少，因為他們沒有人過來。"],["主席：謝謝邱主委，謝謝高金召委的質詢。接下來請張宏陸委員質詢。"],["主席（高金委員素梅）：不好意思，張宏陸委員，你有要主委留下嗎？還是不用？好，謝謝。非常謝謝主委，希望您保重身體，也希望您在卸下公職之後能夠對兩岸的問題更深入地來探討跟做好的先鋒，好嗎？謝謝。好，我們現在請張宏陸委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":506,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","李柏毅","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃捷","黃建賓","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","傅崐萁","廖先翔","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","陳冠廷","陳玉珍","洪孟楷","鄭正鈐","葉元之","黃仁","徐巧芯","林德福","莊瑞雄","王鴻薇","羅智強"],"page_start":449,"meetingDate":["2024-05-01"],"gazette_id":"1133601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133601_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請內政部、交通部、大陸委員會、財團法人海峽交流基金會、原住民族委員會就「針對陸方開\n放大陸觀光客來台具體回應及作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133601_00005"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.8534687500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.076593750000001,"end":7.50659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.586593750000002,"end":11.556593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.493468750000002,"end":11.185343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.792843750000003,"end":11.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.82659375,"end":13.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.24846875,"end":15.083468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.47159375,"end":17.074718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.51346875,"end":21.141593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.54659375,"end":21.715343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.78284375,"end":23.65596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.80346875,"end":26.676593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":26.91284375,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.94659375,"end":27.31784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.63846875,"end":29.69721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.832218750000003,"end":37.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.67909375,"end":43.28159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.70346875,"end":47.60159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.922218750000006,"end":49.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.96409375,"end":52.140968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.32659375,"end":57.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.861593750000004,"end":59.970968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.42659375,"end":61.118468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.523468750000006,"end":61.557218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.557218750000004,"end":61.962218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.907218750000006,"end":63.565343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.88596875,"end":67.54784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.31596875000001,"end":66.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.59846875000001,"end":69.06659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.73346875,"end":71.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.31971875,"end":70.09596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.55159375000001,"end":71.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.68221875,"end":78.11159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.33096875000001,"end":78.98909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":79.22534375000001,"end":81.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":81.70596875000001,"end":82.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.24596875,"end":84.22034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.68034375,"end":84.16971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.22034375000001,"end":84.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.25409375000001,"end":84.28784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.28784375000001,"end":84.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":84.42284375,"end":99.20534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.50721875,"end":85.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.27409375,"end":93.04596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.16409375,"end":93.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.47596875,"end":95.94846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.14221875000001,"end":101.56784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.95596875000001,"end":111.20346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.70971875000001,"end":115.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":116.09721875000001,"end":124.14659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.43471875,"end":118.59471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.29909375000001,"end":120.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.12596875000001,"end":121.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.25221875000001,"end":126.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":125.53034375000001,"end":127.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.75784375,"end":129.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":130.77846875,"end":135.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.79909375,"end":135.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":135.68909375,"end":142.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.79846875,"end":137.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.33784375000002,"end":146.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.58596875,"end":152.81721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.10409375,"end":155.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.46221875,"end":161.10284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.11971875,"end":163.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.38096875000002,"end":167.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.35909375,"end":169.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.69221875000002,"end":171.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.47659375,"end":175.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":176.37471875,"end":178.29846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.63596875000002,"end":179.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.73284375,"end":180.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.55971875,"end":192.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.24971875,"end":203.34096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.50971875000002,"end":206.88471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.57659375,"end":211.10346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.52534375000002,"end":224.35034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.07596875000002,"end":233.36159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.78346875000003,"end":269.00159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.23784375,"end":273.87846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.92909375,"end":294.73596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.52909375,"end":313.82159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.15909375,"end":321.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":322.22534375000004,"end":323.91284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.35159375,"end":342.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":342.93096875000003,"end":344.51721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":345.32721875000004,"end":348.75284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":349.17471875,"end":351.73971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.81971875000005,"end":356.07659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.88721875000005,"end":353.27534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.68409375000005,"end":360.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.07159375000003,"end":384.20721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.81471875,"end":388.35846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":388.67909375000005,"end":410.54909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.46034375000005,"end":413.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":414.78471875,"end":415.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":415.93221875,"end":418.31159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":418.64909375,"end":433.90409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.40346875,"end":424.77471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.49596875000003,"end":426.91784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.42721875,"end":435.52409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.74346875000003,"end":456.21284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.33346875,"end":442.94909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.53971875,"end":444.28221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.28221875,"end":446.77971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":450.89721875000004,"end":497.69159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":459.43596875000003,"end":459.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.86034375,"end":500.96534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":499.34534375000004,"end":500.35784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.96534375000005,"end":500.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.99909375000004,"end":501.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":501.10034375000004,"end":511.73159375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.36596875000004,"end":503.46284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":512.30534375,"end":514.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.24596875,"end":516.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":516.8953437499999,"end":523.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.5903437500001,"end":530.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":527.6615937500001,"end":528.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.0915937500001,"end":530.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":530.17596875,"end":531.7453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.41221875,"end":531.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":531.7453437500001,"end":583.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":533.4665937500001,"end":534.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":537.75284375,"end":539.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":541.71846875,"end":542.0559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":549.4640937500001,"end":552.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":553.32846875,"end":553.7334687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.6615937500001,"end":555.04971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.04971875,"end":556.2647187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":581.9822187500001,"end":582.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":582.87659375,"end":590.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.1928437500001,"end":586.82534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.7234687499999,"end":594.2165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":591.2297187500001,"end":593.82846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.43596875,"end":594.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":594.45284375,"end":594.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":594.97596875,"end":596.08971875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.389,"end":11.135,"text":"請高金素梅召委謝謝主席我們請邱主委然後再請經濟處處長邱主委還有海基會的副秘書長請經濟處的葉處長還有海基會的蔡副秘書長"},{"start":23.22,"end":29.423,"text":"主計處在4月29日公布了110年家庭財富分配統計統計全台灣家庭貧富之間的差距已經達到了"},{"start":48.053,"end":48.554,"text":"主席主委"},{"start":62.964,"end":69.929,"text":"我想貧富的這個差距確實是各國都非常關注的我們大概可以看出幾個趨勢大概資本主義的國家貧富的差距一定比社會主義的國家還高"},{"start":79.375,"end":105.694,"text":"第二 全球化的結果 恐怕這個必然會加劇所以你是同意他的說法嗎不是 這個基本上必然會加劇但是呢 當然各國採取的政策是不是有效或有用 我不曉得那我們大概可以看相較於全球化的結果大概資本主義發達的國家的差距會越大你倒是提到了一個很重要的問題我不同意這是高度自由經濟發展的必然結果"},{"start":106.554,"end":115.1,"text":"那你剛剛談到政策是的我想請問一下主委齁這個您一個月的薪資是多少這是公開的嘛20到25萬之間吧大概20萬左右再加一個部長家籍3萬9對所以將近20到25萬張當中嘛對大概25萬以內啦那您認為您家的開銷夠嗎"},{"start":131.556,"end":142.361,"text":"當然坦白講每一個人的家庭情況不一定一樣像我這麼節儉的人當然是夠啦但是重點在後面我當律師的時候大概都是這個20到23萬之間因為你節儉所以夠"},{"start":147.683,"end":169.899,"text":"所以,您不向主計處公布排名後20%的家庭,它的平均負債是405萬。所以,我完全不同意主計處所說的這種說法。台灣社會的貧富不均,真的不是什麼必然的結果,它根本就是人為的政策惡果。我舉一個,台灣半導體的產業來講,"},{"start":172.987,"end":176.913,"text":"今年他們的產值是達到了新台幣5兆政府對這個半導體產業要電給電"},{"start":180.629,"end":184.413,"text":"政府給了他們所有的政策給他們所有的優惠但是獲利的80%卻是被外資拿走了"},{"start":203.67,"end":209.816,"text":"好 我們再回頭來看一下我們台灣的觀光產業按照2023年的產值我們是7500億然後根據交通部觀光局的統計觀光業的從業人力2023年是22萬4618人副署長 對吧好 麻煩你也上台一下 謝謝"},{"start":226.291,"end":252.492,"text":"這項產業大部分都是服務業就是剛剛麥玉珍講到的最基層也有這個導覽人員他們沒有得到像半導產業那樣的政府的支持他們經歷過疫情的衝擊他們期待政府能夠兌現選舉之前的開放大陸觀光的選舉支票可是呢又被民進黨政府跳票了民進黨政府一直在講"},{"start":253.493,"end":268.701,"text":"等待對岸的善意達到他所謂的對等尊嚴的政治訴求因此就不惜綁架了這個觀光產業把這些觀光產業的人當作人肉盾牌當作炮灰"},{"start":269.341,"end":294.114,"text":"但是這個被民進黨政府搞的一夜一席的觀光產業的背後是22萬個家庭的生計喔今天我聽說好像我們觀光產業的理事長也有來他們也非常關心今天召委排的這一次的這個說明所以為什麼那麼重要因為我剛剛提到有22萬個家庭的生計"},{"start":296.555,"end":318.241,"text":"這22萬人的聲音難道也是所謂的自由經濟發展的必然結果嗎我剛剛看到的這些政策您也同意我說有的時候是政策的問題當然不是我認為這是民進黨他們非常惡意的政策製造出來的貧窮惡果觀光的人口數觀光副署長在觀光副署長從我們2016年的44萬人降到22萬人"},{"start":325.524,"end":351.359,"text":"所以我們現在幾乎有一半的觀光產業人口的家庭可能淪為了主計處那個所謂的20%的負債家庭我們也看到非常多的新聞非常多的報導這些家庭根本是活不下去了所以我在這裡要呼籲我們的政府還有我們台上面的大官們我們真的不要忘記了我們的薪水"},{"start":352.847,"end":365.456,"text":"也有這22萬家庭繳出去的稅金所以如果我們的政府想要操弄善意而沒有得到對岸回應的時候你們的惡意就會讓觀光業的22萬個家庭"},{"start":371.921,"end":373.642,"text":"平復不均不是什麼自由經濟發展必然結果"},{"start":385.081,"end":407.692,"text":"這是政府惡意操弄政策的結果當我們拿著所謂人民的這些血汗錢或者是看著人民已經要活不下去了這些人民他們是會憤怒的啦到時候他們燒起來絕對不是現在我們打到的什麼弊端什麼弊案然後什麼光電幫股票可以從他們資本額10萬現在到達這麼高"},{"start":411.494,"end":433.021,"text":"我想那會影響的是你們的政權喔好 主委我就兩個面向的回答第一個我想任何一個國家他確實他必須會有他的產業政策也就是說他到底要發展哪一些產業那這個當然有得有失啦你強勢的你當然希望就像中國他認為他的電動車會強所以他高度的在補助電動車業其他產業也一樣"},{"start":437.742,"end":446.272,"text":"所以這個各國到底他怎麼去決定我們這半島題材也是特別優惠我不是經濟部我不是國歌會主委我都很容易在這個執行的過程中一定會產生偏差這個偏差怎麼再去把它調整回來"},{"start":452.679,"end":478.58,"text":"所以我剛剛講到半導體產業他們有32萬人口但是獲利的80%全部都是外資不見得是我們本國的人獲利可是我們的政府卻給他這麼多的優惠藥店給電藥水給水然後稅金又特別的優惠所以端看我們的政府到底在這個所謂的政策上面是偏袒哪一方很顯然我剛剛以觀光業為主"},{"start":479.781,"end":499.766,"text":"我們的觀光業本來從平均有44萬人一直到現在22萬人我們少了一半然後這一半又因為沒有開放兩岸之間的觀光所以造成這些人又活不下去所以主委今天才會我排這樣子的專案來跟您來做交流啊我們是不是趕快要回台來看看這22萬人的生計"},{"start":506.088,"end":523.87,"text":"有工作可以做是要大陸趕快放他的人過來啊他到現在才放馬祖而已啊一年6500個人一天不到18個而且只有馬祖地區這次去應該是要求說那你應該給台灣這22人有工作這22人才會感謝你"},{"start":525.192,"end":538.041,"text":"是你不放你們的陸客來台灣這些人是要賺陸客的錢主委主委所以我講角度的問題主委別忘了您的工作是人民納稅錢給你的所以我們現在呼籲最好不要再設"},{"start":541.724,"end":570.697,"text":"所以陸委會成立的目的跟宗旨就是希望能夠兩岸溝通那您作為這個位置您最主要的就是好好去溝通而不是一直在這邊講說那邊不是出善意啊所以我最後我要大聲的講我們的民進黨政府包括主委您剛剛的態度你們口口聲聲一直說要等待對岸的善意"},{"start":571.377,"end":575.78,"text":"我回過頭來,我看到的是,你們這個行為就是對我們觀光產業還有這些家庭最大的惡意,好嗎?謝謝您,謝謝!我們就到此結束我們的討論談了,謝謝!"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}