{"error":false,"id":["151933"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151933,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151933","日期":"2024-05-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-01T09:43:27+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-01T09:49:53+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466b33fc71bc3925953eaf7b9089f19fa5f77f5010e630711919a711fa33d5d0e6b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"09:43:27 - 09:49:53","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部、交通部、大陸委員會、財團法人海峽交流基金會、原住民族委員會就「針對陸方開放大陸觀光客來台具體回應及作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":264,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時43分）我請李副主委。"],["主席：李副主委。"],["張委員宏陸：還有觀光署的周副署長。"],["主席：還有周副署長。"],["張委員宏陸：副主委跟副署長，我想先請問一下，臺灣是不是一個主權獨立──我們有自己的人民、政府、主權的一個政府？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：是一個政治實體對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯，那中國是不是也是一個？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：國際上都這麼認定。"],["張委員宏陸：對，我們就撇開政治，如果這兩個都是一個政治實體，我們就像在商業的談判一樣，互相不管你公司大或我公司小，要合作、要共融，是不是要對互相的條件能夠接受，商業才可以做？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對，要平等互惠。"],["張委員宏陸：對，平等、互惠，條件都要這樣才可以繼續往下嘛！對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：好，所以我請問一下我們臺灣目前的政策跟立場，我們要不要中國的團客來臺灣？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：我們當然是歡迎全世界的客人都到臺灣來，包括中國大陸的客人。"],["張委員宏陸：所以簡單說一句，我們準備好了，只要你中國說你的團客可以來，我們馬上就可以接待了，馬上就可以處理了。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對，我們都準備好了。"],["張委員宏陸：是不是這樣？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是，我們在去年的8月24號公布那個方案之後，就是主動地釋出善意說我們都準備好了，在9月底的時候，我們全部相關單位的工作都做好了。"],["張委員宏陸：副署長，是不是這樣？"],["周副署長廷彰：是，報告委員，我想我們在112年的9月針對導遊跟領隊，不管是……"],["張委員宏陸：回答重點就好了。"],["周副署長廷彰：就是已經完成相關的訓練，都已經訓練完成，比如說像緊急通報的窗口，或者是旅行社資訊的更新，我們在去年9月已經完成。"],["張委員宏陸：對，所以現在陸委會跟交通部已經很明確地在立法院講，我們臺灣的立場，我們就是都準備好了，只要你中國開放，我們馬上就可以接待了，對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對。"],["張委員宏陸：所以我們的立場是歡迎中國的團客來臺灣對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對。"],["張委員宏陸：沒錯嘛！現在的問題是中國沒有開放，是不是這樣？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：一直以來都是這樣，最近有縮了一個小口，就開了一個馬祖。"],["張委員宏陸：那個6,500個人有開跟沒開一樣啊，對不對？你去人家一間大餐廳，只給人家要一杯白開水，這樣的餐廳你要開嗎？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：有任何對方的回應，我們都是樂見。"],["張委員宏陸：樂見是一件事情，賠錢的生意誰要做？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：跟我們原來預期的、跟我們原來希望的差太多了。"],["張委員宏陸：我只有一個，所以我剛剛的前提就是說要平等互惠，他們如果開放多少，我們是不是相對開放多少？這個應該不會有任何牴觸吧？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：不會，因為剛剛很多位委員也提到就是說我們要同時兼顧outbound跟inbound業者他們的工作權益。"],["張委員宏陸：這當然啦！"],["李副主任委員麗珍：要一起考量。"],["張委員宏陸：inbound的業者……"],["李副主任委員麗珍：尤其inbound是我們政府特別要去照顧的。"],["張委員宏陸：對啊！inbound很多啊！我們臺灣的民宿什麼，這些就是inbound啊，我們的餐廳什麼都是啊！對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：飯店、餐廳、導遊、遊樂區還有遊覽車……"],["張委員宏陸：不只啦！連路邊的路邊攤也是inbound啊！"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對，所以inbound才是我們的重點。"],["張委員宏陸：不，我覺得inbound、outbound都是重點，你這種說法我也不同意。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：當然。"],["張委員宏陸：都是重點，只是說一個國家跟國家對等的談判，你開放多少、我開放多少，我覺得這個是不是一個最基本的原則？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！這個原則是確定的嘛！所以我就覺得說啦，其實你們要說一句：我們沒有阻擋陸客來臺灣，我們沒有阻擋，是他們還沒開放。我做這個結論對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：正確。"],["張委員宏陸：正確嘛！對不對？所以就是要雙方去溝通嘛！對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：我們溝通其實都有持續在進行中。"],["張委員宏陸：當然我知道你們都有在持續進行中，只是現在還沒有嘛！這次開放了馬祖，我們開放馬祖，我們不反對啊，我們當然……對啊，慢慢地都來啊！全臺灣都來啊！我覺得這個才是我們的目標嘛！"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是，我們都準備好了。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！所以我覺得很簡單嘛！要跟外界說我們都準備好了，我們的態度是希望你來，是中國自己設限不讓他來的嘛！"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是，沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對，是陸方在設限。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯嘛！對不對？所以我覺得這是一個很簡單的要跟大家說清楚，其實這個問題沒有那麼複雜啦，我們臺灣就是已經敞開大門了，是你中國自己把門關起來的，你自己現在只開放一個小小的馬祖而已，是不是這樣？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：沒錯。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！所以要說清楚嘛！讓臺灣的人都知道嘛！也要讓全世界都知道嘛！對不對？中國是用這個當成一個手段，對不對？我們臺灣其實沒有這麼多政治，是你自己不開放。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：我們還是期待對方趕快開放。"],["張委員宏陸：你期待它開放是一件事嘛，事實是它自己還沒開放，這個你講清楚就好啦，是不是應該這樣？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯吧！副署長？"],["周副署長廷彰：是，沒有錯。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯嘛！好，謝謝。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張宏陸委員。副署長也別忘記，你們準備5月份要開放的，後來是你們把它取消了，所以才有很多人……這一點怎麼都不講？是不是？","繼續我們請李柏毅委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":506,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","李柏毅","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃捷","黃建賓","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","傅崐萁","廖先翔","鄭天財Sra 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包委員那我想我們在112年的9月針對這個導遊跟領隊不管是要副陸委員回答重點就好了就是已經完成相關的訓練都已經訓練完成那比如說像那個緊急通報的這個窗口或者是說旅行社的這樣的資訊的更新我們在7年9月已經完成對 所以現在陸委會跟"},{"start":139.193,"end":165.259,"text":"交通部已經很明確的在立法院講我們台灣的立場我們就是都準備好了只要你中國開放我們馬上就可以接待了對不對對所以我們的立場是歡迎中國的團客來台灣對不對對沒錯嘛是現在的問題是中國沒有開放是不是這樣"},{"start":167.123,"end":191.068,"text":"一直以來都是這樣那最近有說了一個小口就開了一個大主把那個6500個人這個有開跟沒開一樣阿對不對你去人家一間大餐廳阿只給人家要一杯白開水阿你要這樣的餐廳你要開嗎有任何對方的回應我們都是樂見"},{"start":194.976,"end":212.427,"text":"若見是一件事情若見的勝利是甚麼跟我們原來預期的跟我們原來希望的差太多了我只有一個所以我剛剛的前提就是說要平等互惠他們如果開放多少我們是不是相對開放多少"},{"start":216.012,"end":232.501,"text":"這個應該不會有任何抵觸吧?不會,因為剛剛很多衛委員也提到就是說我們要同時兼顧凹棒跟硬棒業者他們的工作權益這當然啦!要一起考量,尤其是這個硬棒特別是我們政府要去照顧"},{"start":233.261,"end":259.089,"text":"英磅很多啊,我們台灣的民宿什麼這些就是英磅啊,我們的餐廳什麼都是啊,對不對?餐廳、餐廳、導遊、遊樂區,還有遊覽車不只啦,連路邊的路邊攤也是英磅啊,對不對?英磅才是我們的重點不不不,我覺得英磅奧磅都是重點,你這種說法我也不同意,這個都是重點只是說我說,一個國家跟國家"},{"start":260.289,"end":287.697,"text":"對等的談判你開放多少我開放多少我覺得這個是不是一個最基本的原則是對嘛這個原則是確定的嘛是所以我就覺得說啦其實你們要說一句我們沒有阻擋陸客來台灣沒錯我們沒有阻擋是他們還沒開放是我做這個結論是對不對正確正確嘛對不對那所以這次要雙方去溝通嘛對不對"},{"start":289.426,"end":311.64,"text":"我們溝通其實持續都有在進行中當然我知道你們都有在持續進行中只是現在還沒有只是開放了這一次開放了馬祖我們開放馬祖我們不反對我們當然對啊慢慢的都來全台灣都來我覺得這個才是我們的目標是我們都準備好了"},{"start":312.04,"end":324.957,"text":"對嘛,所以我覺得很簡單嘛,要跟外界說我們都準備好了,我們就是,我們的態度是希望你來,是你自己,是中國自己設限不讓他來的嘛,對不對?對,是陸方在設限"},{"start":329.102,"end":347.984,"text":"沒有錯嘛 對不對所以我覺得這個是一個很簡單的要跟大家說清楚其實這個問題沒有那麼複雜啦沒有那麼複雜啦我們台灣就是已經敞開大門了是你中國自己把門關起來的你自己現在只開放一個小小的馬祖而已是不是這樣沒錯"},{"start":349.265,"end":364.97,"text":"對嘛 阿所以跟 要跟 要說清楚嘛 要讓台灣的人都知道嘛 要讓全世界都知道嘛 對不對中國是用這個當成一個手段 對不對 那 我們台灣其實沒有這麼多政治 是你自己不開放"},{"start":365.851,"end":365.871,"text":"謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}