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offer，就是同意，就不會成為一個deal，哪會成為一個協議呢？這是前期的溝通工作，這是基本的法制A、B、C。沒關係，所以兩岸關係會走到這個地步就是有很多人什麼都不懂，然後就講出一些莫名其妙破壞努力工作的人的想法。","請副主委。"],["主席：好，有請李副主委。"],["陳委員玉珍：法務部、海基會。"],["主席：法務部司長，然後海基會副秘書長。"],["陳委員玉珍：副主委，還有法務部也上來。我剛剛聽到您有提到大陸開放福建到馬祖旅遊這個部分，你們事實上本來就已經做好規劃開放金門、馬祖，也是同意的嘛？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對，馬上就開通。是。"],["陳委員玉珍：你們是希望連金門都一起開放嘛？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：當然。"],["陳委員玉珍：同意嘛！所以大陸沒有開放，大陸開放部分的門開得很小，對不對？門開得很小，我都可以說，你不用擔心。臺、澎、金、馬這個部分，我們也支持開放金門嗎？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：當然。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒問題？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：當然。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以我們不用被動，我們現在是被動，我看你們說：「等到陸方同意開放，我們就來實施」。我們可以主動宣布，金門開放讓大陸旅客來，這沒問題嘛！"],["李副主任委員麗珍：我們是已經開放，我們是說實現一定要對方也放客人才行。"],["陳委員玉珍：對，所以你跟大陸玩一樣的遊戲，一個前提，大陸就說0214要先解決；你又說一定要它開放。現在它已經先主動開放馬祖了，沒有任何的前提，它已經開放馬祖，開了一個小小的縫，你也可以說我們主動。因為你剛剛也是支持，沒錯吧？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：我們已經開放了。只要他們送件，我們就……"],["陳委員玉珍：那太好了，這個答案就是我要的。我們事實上開放大陸，你現在就宣布我們開放陸客到金門來。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：去年就宣布了。"],["陳委員玉珍：到金門來？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：你這樣再講一次。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：我們去年就已經說9月底之後，我們就歡迎大陸，就放他們的客人到臺灣來，也到金門、馬祖。"],["陳委員玉珍：那就沒有任何前提，所以只要大陸願意送件就可以過來？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：對。"],["陳委員玉珍：就可以到金門？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：這個沒有問題？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是，沒問題。"],["陳委員玉珍：剛剛我看到你們的報告第一頁裡頭說，只要陸方同意開放，這個不要設前提，反正你們就宣布開放，對吧？你剛剛的意思就不用設前提了，開放，它要不要開放是它的事……"],["李副主任委員麗珍：它要放才能實現。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒錯，它要放是它的事情，它不放，自然我們的百姓、業者也會反過去要求，對吧？大家不要一直雞生蛋、蛋生雞，等到你開放我才開放，或我開放你才開放。不過你剛剛先講到，因為我要講金門的部分，所以金門部分沒有問題。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：沒有問題。"],["陳委員玉珍：金門部分反正已經開放，就等大陸開放而已，大陸就讓他自己送……"],["李副主任委員麗珍：實現……"],["陳委員玉珍：只要送件，反正你們會准，你只要告訴我這一句就好。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：好，謝謝。接著沒有開放的原因是0214，那時候有兩個大陸漁民溺水。有關溺水案，陸委會跟海基會現在跟大陸有沒有溝通的管道？海基會除了文書這種往來以外，有沒有什麼溝通的管道？以前海基會都扮演很重要角色。陸委會……"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：我們針對這個事件，依政府的囑託，我們有發函到海協會。"],["陳委員玉珍：然後呢？然後答案呢？就是兩位大陸漁民在金門這個事件，影響金門很大。"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：另外，我們也是在當地幫助那兩位……"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有，你們跟大陸有沒有？當地、大陸？"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：大陸那邊海協對我們的發函沒有給正式的回復。"],["陳委員玉珍：沒有任何回應就對了？"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：沒有給正式回復。"],["陳委員玉珍：有沒有讀，你也不知道啦！"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：他一定有讀。"],["陳委員玉珍：有讀嗎？"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：有。"],["陳委員玉珍：你怎麼知道？陸委會呢？你們跟國臺辦有沒有溝通的管道？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：在金門的時候，海巡署跟對方協調的時候，陸委會也有參與。"],["陳委員玉珍：陸委會有參與嗎？海基會有參與嗎？"],["蔡副秘書長孟君：有，我們從旁協助。"],["陳委員玉珍：那次去協調，海基會有派人去開會嘛？大陸也有派海協會，也有一個海協會的人員，有嘛？但是沒有談成。我來講這件事情接下去怎麼處理。法務部，大陸要求就上次這個事情3月份以後大家繼續往下談，請問法務部，這個案子金門地檢署到底還要偵辦多久？"],["孟司長玉梅：金門地檢署現在仍在偵辦中。"],["陳委員玉珍：已經偵辦多久了？這個是多重大的事情，卡住所有事情。你看一下，偵查不公開作業辦法第八條有，為了維護公共利益，這已經涉及到全金門的公共利益、合法權益，有必要可以適度揭露，然後重大矚目，這應該是社會矚目案件了吧？這個社會矚目案件很大，你們是不是趕快說明，什麼時候會辦好？"],["孟司長玉梅：因為現在是偵查中，已經將相關的這些事證送請專家鑑定。"],["陳委員玉珍：在鑑定？還要多久？"],["孟司長玉梅：對，在鑑定中。因為這是涉及到第三方的鑑定，所以這個時程要依照鑑定的程序來完成。"],["陳委員玉珍：所以你們都不知道多久就對了？所以整個金門發展會因為你們法務部的遲滯而受到影響。可不可以辦快一點呢？這個時間，可以嗎？趕快有一個結果出來！"],["孟司長玉梅：檢察機關一定是依據法律。"],["陳委員玉珍：多久呢？你給我時間。"],["孟司長玉梅：因為這是涉及到鑑定，鑑定這個部分就不是地檢署說，我要他什麼時候完成鑑定就完成鑑定……"],["陳委員玉珍：你也可以一個月內鑑定出來，怎麼會不行呢？"],["孟司長玉梅：要看……"],["陳委員玉珍：從2月到5月，現在都已經3個月了。"],["孟司長玉梅：涉及到鑑定的複雜面向、船舶比對等等……"],["陳委員玉珍：反正你也沒有辦法說什麼。","最後我再問，陸委會不知道有沒有看到？我看剛剛很多委員還是在質詢意識形態的東西。現在我們看到兩岸的領導人，不管是賴清德總統或是習近平總書記，他們事實上兩邊都在互相釋放出善意。陸委會應該有觀察到這一點吧？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是。"],["陳委員玉珍：都有說要交流，不管是什麼方向，所以我是奉勸這些已經還在車上的，等一下如果說不對，就會被甩尾了。兩邊的最高領導人都已經在釋出善意了，下面的人應該就是往這個方向前進。陸委會溝通的部分……副主委有在聽嗎？"],["李副主任委員麗珍：有，我在看……"],["陳委員玉珍：我想新任的主委應該也會有很多經驗。"],["李副主任委員麗珍：是，請委員繼續指教，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝陳玉珍委員。","繼續請洪孟楷委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":506,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-15","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","李柏毅","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃捷","黃建賓","許宇甄","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","丁學忠","傅崐萁","廖先翔","鄭天財Sra 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我要幫陸委會回答這個議題啦齁這個 怎麼叫 deal 協議 agreement deal 嘛對方提一個 offer 我們要一個 counter offer 才叫 deal agreement"},{"start":16.861,"end":17.321,"text":"副主委法務部"},{"start":42.368,"end":43.069,"text":"法務部司長、海基會副秘書長"},{"start":53.436,"end":58.338,"text":"我剛剛聽到您說有在提到說大陸開放這個馬祖這個部分附近大馬祖旅遊這個部分那你們事實上本來就已經做好規劃開放金門馬祖也是同意的你們是希望連金門都一起開放嗎當然當然所以大陸沒有開放這個大陸開放的部分門開的很小對不對"},{"start":76.56,"end":95.426,"text":"門開得很小啦我都可以說你不用擔心那這個那我們這個部分我們這個台風金馬之門我們也支持開放金門嗎當然沒問題齁當然所以我們不用被動嘛我們現在是被動說欸我看你們說等到陸方同意開放我們就來實施我們可以主動啊我們主動說宣布金門開放讓大陸來嘛"},{"start":97.327,"end":102.411,"text":"我們是已經開放我們是說實現一定要對方也放客人所以你一樣你跟大陸玩一樣的遊戲一個前提大陸就說那個0214先解決你又說一定要他開放你現在他已經先主動開放馬祖了沒有任何的前提他已經開放馬祖開了一個小小的縫你也可以說"},{"start":115.362,"end":115.402,"text":"陳玉珍"},{"start":135.625,"end":153.522,"text":"9月底之後我們就歡迎大陸就放他們的客人到哪到台灣來好 那就沒有任何前提嘛所以只要大陸願意送件就可以過來嘛就可以到金門嘛是是好 這個沒有問題嘛剛剛我看到你們這個報告第1頁裡頭說也是想說什麼只要陸方同意開放那這個不要設前提啊反正你們就宣布開放嘛"},{"start":155.518,"end":182.715,"text":"你剛剛的意思是說不用設前提了開放那他要不要開放是他的事嘛他要放才能實現那沒錯他要放是他的事情他不放自然我們的百姓業者也會反過去要求啊對吧就不要大家不要一直雞生蛋蛋自己等到你開放我才開放你才開放嘛不過你剛剛先講到因為我要講金門的部分所以金門部分沒有問題啦金門部分已經就是說反正已經開放了就等大陸開放而已啦大陸只要就讓他自己送 只要送件反正你們會准啦你只要告訴我這一句就好了"},{"start":184.096,"end":196.702,"text":"好 謝謝然後接著那個沒有開放的原因是0214這個的這個就是那個就是海巡那時候有兩個漁民刀在漁民這個溺水啦齁那溺水 陸委會跟海基委你們現在跟刀有沒有溝通的管道"},{"start":198.868,"end":227.114,"text":"海峽除了這個文書這種往來以外有沒有什麼溝通的管道以前海峽都扮演很重要角色陸委會我想我們針對這個事件就是政府的主託我們有發函到海峽發函然後呢對然後答案呢就是那個兩位大陸漁民在金門這個影響金門很大那另外就是說我們也是在當地幫助那兩位沒有沒有你們跟大陸我們要當地大陸那邊海峽對於我們的發函他沒有給我們正式的回覆沒有任何回應就對了沒有給正式回覆有沒有讀你也不知道了"},{"start":228.393,"end":228.573,"text":"法務部"},{"start":257.997,"end":272.109,"text":"請問一下現在大陸的事實上要求是就上次的這個上次到3月份以後嘛3月份以後的這個事情繼續往下大家繼續往下談那這個請問法務部金門地檢署這個案子到底還要偵辦多久金門地檢署現在仍然在偵辦中"},{"start":277.333,"end":303.19,"text":"已經申辦多久了,這個是多重大的事情啊,卡住手機,來,這個你看一下,不公開作為辦法第8條有,這些東西為了維護公共利益,這已經涉及到全金門的公共利益了,合法權益,有必要可以適度揭露嘛,然後這個重大的矚目,這應該是社會矚目案件了吧,這個社會矚目案件很大,你們是不是趕快的說明啊,什麼時候會辦好呢?"},{"start":304.858,"end":330.316,"text":"因為現在的偵查中是已經將相關的一些這些事證送請專家鑑定在鑑定還要多久呢那因為就是涉及到第三方的一個鑑定所以這個時程是要依照鑑定的這個所以你們都不知道多久對不對所以整個金門發展會因為你們法務部的這個辭職而受到影響喔跟委員說明就是說可不可以辦快一點呢這個時間可以嗎趕快有一個結果出來嘛"},{"start":331.871,"end":342.302,"text":"蔣經緯一定是依據法令 因為這是涉及到一個鑑定鑑定這個部分就不是地檢署說 我要他什麼時候你也可以鑑定一個月內出來 怎麼會不行呢現在都已經二月到四月五月了 三個月了"},{"start":347.026,"end":370.103,"text":"那涉及到這個鑑定的這個復雜面向等等這些反正你也沒有辦法說什麼那我再問部長那對不起再一分鐘喔最後一個是喔我像陸委會不知道有沒有看到很多我看我們剛剛很多委員回答還是在意識形態的東西現在我們看到兩岸的這個領導人不管是賴清德總統或是習近平總書記他們現在事實上兩邊都在互相釋放出善意啦我想陸委會應該有觀察到這一點吧"},{"start":371.924,"end":372.144,"text":"陳玉珍"},{"start":391.237,"end":391.638,"text":"新任副主委"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}