{"error":false,"id":["151975"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151975,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151975","日期":"2024-05-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-01T12:08:09+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-01T12:19:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/75811ef35c27466b5e160a73380dd83b900bfbad7a56e18f7f5010e63071191952fbb683eb77f5d55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"12:08:09 - 12:19:45","會議時間":"2024-05-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、國家發展委員會、勞動部就「如何改善受僱人員報酬占 GDP 比重偏低現象，導引企業與勞工共享獲利，提升我國勞工實質薪資」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1002,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（12時7分）主席、各位委員、各位列席官員，大家好。主席，可不可以請主計長？"],["主席：朱主計長請。"],["羅委員明才：主計長你好。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：現在是5月1號，五一五一勞工穿新衣，可是今天的勞工朋友還有年輕人很辛苦啊！在今天買新衣服穿的不多，因為阮囊羞澀，因為手邊沒閒錢，主計長你應該是最後，要有始有終，在這艘船上你要繼續努力啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：我已經不會在政府單位這一艘船上，我是在中華民國這個島上。"],["羅委員明才：對，在這艘你我共同的船上，每個人都要繼續努力，雖然主計長已經快要畢業了，人之將至，其言也善。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個是送到殯儀館的啦！你不要用這種話啦！"],["羅委員明才：沒有啦！我是說這個位置即將到一個劃句點的時刻，你應該多講一點正面的、講一些良心話。"],["朱主計長澤民：我都是講正面的話。"],["羅委員明才：本席一直關心年輕人低薪的問題，請問主計長，現在年輕人薪水有沒有高於三萬五的？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們的經常性薪資平均大概是四萬多塊，您剛才講的三萬五，剛畢業的人平均沒有那麼多。"],["羅委員明才：好，主計長，中華民國很有錢。"],["朱主計長澤民：對。"],["羅委員明才：我們應該多多照顧年輕人，低於平均線三萬五以下的，是不是可以來申請領一點補助？"],["朱主計長澤民：符合低收入戶的話是可以的，要符合一定的條件，而且我們也有很多措施，像租金補貼啦！學貸啦！我們最近都有很多的措施，讓年輕人避免學貸的壓力以及房屋租金的壓力。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，那個是緩不濟急啦！"],["朱主計長澤民：有啦！那個是每個月都發的，不可能緩不濟急。"],["羅委員明才：而且對很多的青年人、年輕人沒有實際的幫助。我請教一個數字，外勞在臺灣一般可以領多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：就是按照所謂的最低工資，都有。"],["羅委員明才：多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：如果按照規定，他有額外加班的話，雇主還要另外給錢，這個由勞動部來答會比我更恰當。"],["羅委員明才：勞動部是哪一位？"],["主席：有請許次長。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，也請你留步。"],["朱主計長澤民：還要哦？"],["羅委員明才：因為你是老臣伏驥，事實上你可以指導幫助很多年輕人，我繼續討論，你就可以講兩句話了。","請問許次長，外勞的最低薪資，一般在臺灣大概可以領多少？"],["許次長傳盛：謝謝羅委員。外勞有好多種，如果是所謂的廠工、製造業，依照目前規定的基本工資……"],["羅委員明才：好，直接回答，廠工是多少？"],["許次長傳盛：廠工至少要在基本工資以上。"],["羅委員明才：多少？"],["許次長傳盛：目前基本工資以上的話，是2萬7,470元以上。"],["羅委員明才：兩萬七千多。請問長照的這些外勞一個月領多少？"],["許次長傳盛：長照的部分，目前是……"],["羅委員明才：直接答。"],["許次長傳盛：2萬左右。"],["羅委員明才：多少？"],["許次長傳盛：2萬左右。"],["羅委員明才：長照2萬可以請得到？"],["許次長傳盛：不，長照也有分兩種，一個是在機構工作，那也要基本工資，如果是在家庭幫傭看護的，那個部分是2萬出頭一點。"],["羅委員明才：好，家裡的話是兩萬多，多多少？"],["許次長傳盛：大概兩萬一、兩萬二，兩萬二。"],["羅委員明才：好，兩萬二。長照的部分，外勞是領多少？"],["許次長傳盛：以機構嗎？或者是……"],["羅委員明才：機構。"],["許次長傳盛：機構當然一定要基本工資以上，2萬7,470元以上。"],["羅委員明才：次長，你吃米不知道米價啊！不要說那些有的沒的，你去醫院問問看，你要請一個臨時的長照，沒有6萬、沒有8萬你請得到人嗎？"],["許次長傳盛：那是本國的啦！"],["羅委員明才：本國的，好，那你請外勞不用5萬嗎？"],["許次長傳盛：沒有，外勞當然他還有加班費。"],["羅委員明才：內行人說內行話，不要粉飾太平，講那一些大家聽不懂的話。你如果說兩萬多可以請到長照，那明天我找一票人去登記，請你把人提供出來給大家。"],["許次長傳盛：我跟羅委員報告，本國跟外勞他在薪資上面是有落差。"],["羅委員明才：你承不承認本席剛剛講的是比較貼近市場面？對吧！接著要回過來換主計長，事實上，連外勞可能每一個月都是領四萬五，領5萬、6萬以上。"],["朱主計長澤民：您講的那個可能是外配，不是外勞，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：外勞啦！在醫院裡面幫忙看護的。"],["朱主計長澤民：外配啦！他是外配啦！"],["羅委員明才：幫忙24小時在醫院照顧健康的。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，那有很多都是外配，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：好，不管啦！我講這個……"],["朱主計長澤民：外配他已經有中華民國國籍，所以他已經適用中華民國法律，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：重點是要提醒主計長，連外勞都領5萬了，你為什麼讓中華民國的年輕人、青年人只有領三萬五，有的還領不到？"],["朱主計長澤民：我剛才講，那些所謂的外配，他已經是具有中華民國國籍，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：所以本席在這裡一直奉勸你，你就最後一段路了，你就講講實際的心裡話，拜託你幫幫年輕人嘛！如果年輕朋友領不到三萬五的，國家補助嘛！國家支持啊！國家要挺身而出照顧他們啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：對，如果說……"],["羅委員明才：主計長，能不能幫幫這些年輕人？"],["朱主計長澤民：對，也許委員對於……"],["羅委員明才：現在的年輕人，我覺得將心比心，如果我是這些年輕人，我每天起來就是4個字，「失望」跟「絕望」，因為我再幹下去沒有什麼好做，只好做Uber啊！主計長，做Uber跑單一個月可以領多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：現在大概會有3、4萬以上，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：吃米不知道米價，認真一點跑單至少也有7萬，有的拚到底的，晚上也拚白天也拚，差不多有十幾萬，沒辦法嘛！他為了生活，還不是為了理想，因為沒有理想啊！只是在這種困難的環境中自我安慰，然後努力生存，希望可以掙得比外勞多一點點的薪水，看護的起碼都有6萬、7萬啊！所以年輕人是沒有希望的。我希望所有的相關單位、政府機關，平心而論，現在的貧富懸殊已經擴大到歷史新高，主計長，貧富懸殊最高數跟最低數差多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：我剛才有講，以最高最低去比並不是很恰當。"],["羅委員明才：67倍。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個並不是很恰當，因為最高的裡面有很高的負債。"],["羅委員明才：67倍的意思就是與主計長沒關，因為你不是最底層的那六十七分之一，年輕人比較辛苦、弱勢的，只能寄望寄生上游，不斷地往上攀爬，問題是沒有人像你那麼好啊！你是在公務機關，你退休還有退休金啊！你退休了，國家會養你啊！這些年輕人手無寸鐵，人為刀俎、我為魚肉，所以本席建議今年度的預算優先照顧年輕人，今年所有的預算大力、大幅度來照顧年輕人，特別是有小孩的年輕人，單親家庭也要照顧。"],["朱主計長澤民：我們最近的預算就是像委員所說的那樣，青年有學貸，有房租補貼，而且有小孩的每個人5,000元，我們就是像委員所講的，已經有在照顧，那個都是過去8年以前沒有的，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，難道你要我在這邊好好地感謝你謝主隆恩嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！這是我們應該做的，因為那是納稅人的錢，是我們應該做的。"],["羅委員明才：如果你做得好，年輕人就不會怨嘆了！你做得好，年輕人就不會痛哭流淚啊！你做得好，大家拿香來跟你拜啊！問題是你做好了嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，我又沒有去殯儀館，不必拿香跟我拜，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：年輕人的薪資，以目前的情況，起碼你要5萬起跳啊！主計長，以現在的經濟水平，現在政府的照顧，什麼時候能讓臺灣的年輕人可以稍微緩緩，至少一個月領5萬元以上？什麼時候做得到？"],["朱主計長澤民：未來的人會做得到，謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：好啦！做不到請下臺。其實國家有很多的政策工具，貧富懸殊那麼大……"],["朱主計長澤民：我很快就下臺了，我再兩個多禮拜就下臺了。"],["羅委員明才：所以你做不到要下臺啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我下臺。"],["羅委員明才：政府有那麼多的單位，那麼多的錢，該用不用！上上禮拜，我報一條消息讓你們聞香，保險法第一百四十六條之四修正以後，從國外引進來的資金有六兆多，你也可以要求這六兆多優先以怎麼樣的方式來照顧年輕人啊！你們碰到財團、碰到大企業家，統統轉彎！"],["朱主計長澤民：那個六兆多不能發給大家，那個是人家的錢。"],["羅委員明才：六兆多回來，你為什麼不主張歡迎你們回來，以10%的概念，全部優先照顧年輕人？"],["朱主計長澤民：歡迎回來要產生價值，那個不是中華民國的錢，不是政府的錢，所以不能發給民眾。"],["羅委員明才：這個是你可以提的啊！錢回來……"],["朱主計長澤民：那個不是政府的錢，不能夠發給民眾。"],["羅委員明才：你可以遺贈稅增加20%、50%，全部照顧年輕人啊！你們都不做啊！該做不做，所以主計長，不做的結果，最後就是要下臺一鞠躬，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅召委的質詢。","緊接著我們請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-11","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王世堅","李坤城","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","羅明才","顏寬恒","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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