{"error":false,"id":["152014"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152014,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152014","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T09:35:40+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T09:44:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:52","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1fe40872097187b17e5dad6307223f0f855be169921a0a717433ed581e36198385ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:35:40 - 09:44:32","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：\n一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案。\n二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案。\n三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案14案。\n四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n七、有關數位發展部主管預算凍結書面報告案7案。\n八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n九、有關內政部主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n十一、有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案。）","gazette":{"lineno":177,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時35分）謝謝主席，請交通部次長。"],["主席：請交通部次長。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：次長好。次長，我們的單軌藍線一期有條件通過，總經費是324.37億，這個部分讓大家都覺得我們臺南要蓋捷運了，是以單軌捷運的方式，可是細看裡面，是有條件的通過，而且現在是高架，有條件的通過，在這整個過程當中，主要連接高鐵到東區的轉運站這樣的區塊，所以大家都希望有這一條來連結。"],["陳次長彥伯：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是有條件的通過，這裡面的條件所寫的其實沒有那麼容易來處理。第一個，他說臺南市政府須再加強說明採用該系統的原因及後續營運維修成本，這很困難。這好像又給我們一個希望，然後又壓住我們。第二個，總經費較可行性研究增加126.74億的責任歸屬。第三個，中央與地方經費分攤、經濟效益及運量估算合理性，這三個你先讓它過了一個頭，過去人家都說頭過身就過，但是這看來就不是這樣，原本大家都期待藍線一期的環評過了，結果是有條件通過。次長，這到底是怎麼一回事？"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告一下，有關臺南市的藍線，本部是在3月21號召開相關的審查會，當然審查會裡頭有相關的意見，是希望臺南市政府再釐清說明，說明完了以後，其實我們就會把整個計畫函報行政院來核定，那這三點……"],["陳委員亭妃：但是你說要釐清說明的這三點，這三點是可大可小耶！次長，這三點是可大可小！"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告，其實採用什麼樣的系統、採用什麼樣營運的方式，在可行性的階段市政府做了很詳盡的研究，提出來之後，針對他採行了這樣一套的系統，當時相關的審查委員認為可能要請市政府再說明，把它說明清楚，意思並不是質疑他採用這樣的系統。"],["陳委員亭妃：次長，我就跟你講，這三點是可大可小，對不對？如果只是認同這個系統，然後在未來可行性評估的營運維修成本只是有一點點需要補強的，那沒有問題，如果像你講的，委員認為這個系統是有問題的，那是可大可小。","再來，總經費比當時的可行性研究增加了126.74億，比較多的大概都是所有土建相關的導致預算增加，對不對？原物料的增加嘛？那今天責任歸屬，我就跟你講，你講這幾點都是可大可小。","再來，中央跟地方要怎麼分攤？地方是出越少越好，中央出越多越好，這是最基本的嘛！次長，你要叫他怎麼回答？"],["陳次長彥伯：委員，我可不可以簡單再說明清楚一點？就是有關這樣的計畫，在我們部裡頭召開的審查委員會審查完以後，是有條件通過，請他修正完了以後，我們就會把這樣的計畫報院，所以剛才委員講到報院的期程，應該是等市政府報來了以後，我們大概看了一下，若沒問題，我們就會往行政院報。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，次長，你這一句話很重要喔！"],["陳次長彥伯：至於可行性的研究……"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我就跟你講，你寫的這幾點是可大可小……"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果今天是像次長所說的，你們都審過了，只有一個小修正，那OK……"],["陳次長彥伯：這個……"],["陳委員亭妃：可是如果不是這個樣子，又是在那邊退件來、退件去，基本上我們當時在媒體看到大大的，也就是已經通過了所謂的初步審查，那等於就沒有意義了。"],["陳次長彥伯：我……"],["陳委員亭妃：次長，你要記得你今天所說的喔！"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我跟委員報告，有條件的通過，其實是整體上委員對這整個計畫是可以通過的……"],["陳委員亭妃：當然啊！"],["陳次長彥伯：只是大家希望要補充些相關的……"],["陳委員亭妃：整體可以通過，但只是稍微修正，這個原則請把它踩住。"],["陳次長彥伯：沒問題……"],["陳委員亭妃：這個部分，因為……"],["陳次長彥伯：我們會依照這樣的原則來做後續的處理。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我們的單軌捷運，基本上有藍線、綠線、紅線，綠線、紅線都還在規劃，都還沒有正式有這樣的雛型。今天藍線會跑得比較快，是因為它確實可以連接高鐵到東區的轉運站，所以這個是有基本上的需要，甚至未來還可以連接到火車站，這個都有它的脈絡性，所以這一條會比較被重視，而且因為它是高架，高架其實未來還有所謂落墩的問題……"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：落墩的問題，因為這邊比較空曠，所以比較沒有跟住戶有所謂比鄰的狀態，因此我們都希望這一條要趕快走。"],["陳次長彥伯：瞭解。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以整個藍線、綠線、紅線都在本來2.25億的先期運輸系統規劃，現在藍線跑得比較快，所以我們希望不要讓地方失望，是這個部分。第二個問題，就是我們現在所看到的新市鐵路高架化，我知道現在臺南市政府還在做新市及善化地區鐵路立體化可行性研究的期末相關作業，對不對？所有的資料都還在市政府，是不是？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以你們沒有資料？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，我要求交通部，現在因為你們要評估所有鐵路地下化的進度，到未來走到新市高架大概要多久？因為你們預估出時間，才能催促市政府要趕快把時間訂出來，否則他的東西不送出來怎麼辦？來，預計一下，現在所有的地下化都在進行啊！"],["主席：你趕快回答吧！"],["陳委員亭妃：趕快回答。"],["主席：試著回答，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告一下，有關鐵路地下化的部分，我們會在115年通車啦！"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊！115年。"],["陳次長彥伯：對，這整個的話……"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊！那連結……"],["陳次長彥伯：後續的部分就要看市政府報來了以後……"],["陳委員亭妃：從永康再到新市，這個部分呢？這個部分你們的預計呢？115年鐵路地下化通車，後面銜接到永康、新市、新化，還有善化呢？"],["陳次長彥伯：我想委員這一部分可能還是……"],["主席：私底下再提供資料，好不好？私底下。"],["陳次長彥伯：好。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有，只要一句話而已。"],["陳次長彥伯：對，我的意思是，還是希望臺南市政府報來了以後……"],["陳委員亭妃：你要催促市政府啊！"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我們來協助，好不好？"],["陳委員亭妃：你要催促市政府啊！"],["陳次長彥伯：我們來協助他啦！"],["陳委員亭妃：如果他都不動的話，等到你們做完，後面計畫都還沒上來，怎麼會來得及呢，對不對？"],["陳次長彥伯：是，這部分我們來協助他，好不好？"],["陳委員亭妃：我們希望有一個環狀嘛！你知道鐵路地下化拖多久了！"],["主席：謝謝陳委員的質詢。"],["陳委員亭妃：再拜託，你要催促市政府趕快把整個可行性送出來。"],["陳次長彥伯：好，我們來看怎麼樣協助市政府。"],["陳委員亭妃：謝謝。"],["陳次長彥伯：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員的質詢。","下一位請吳秉叡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","陳亭妃","吳秉叡","賴士葆","萬美玲","洪孟楷","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","王鴻薇","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","陳玉珍","張宏陸","游顥","陳秀寳","鄭正鈐","羅廷瑋","徐富癸","黃秀芳","郭昱晴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","李坤城","陳素月","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","王世堅","黃健豪","王美惠","范雲","張雅琳","林月琴","王正旭","賴瑞隆","吳春城","徐欣瑩","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","葉元之","蘇清泉","盧縣一","陳超明","李柏毅","林岱樺","劉建國","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","牛煦庭","吳琪銘","蔡易餘","賴惠員"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強\n化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告\n案4案；二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案；三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案\n14案；四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 3案；五、有關衛生福利部主管預算\n凍結書面報告案11案；六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案；七、有關數位發展部主管\n預算凍結書面報告案7案；八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案；九、有關內政部主\n管預算凍結書面報告案3案；十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案；十一、有關國\n家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案","agenda_id":"1133901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.66284375,"end":7.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.35471875,"end":7.371593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.844093750000001,"end":12.383468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":12.872843750000001,"end":21.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.58034375,"end":32.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.32534375,"end":36.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.970343750000005,"end":38.674718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.59034375,"end":38.657843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.674718750000004,"end":39.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.877218750000004,"end":41.00346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.44221875,"end":55.24596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.24596875,"end":55.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.27971875,"end":55.49909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.549718750000004,"end":56.54534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.899718750000005,"end":59.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.80221875,"end":60.257843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.595343750000005,"end":61.320968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.063468750000006,"end":64.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.24846875,"end":66.77159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.71659375,"end":70.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.34471875,"end":72.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":71.76659375,"end":71.96909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.25596875000001,"end":72.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.16721875,"end":82.17846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.71409375,"end":84.74346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.68846875,"end":86.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.81909375000001,"end":87.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.06784375000001,"end":89.18159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.51909375000001,"end":91.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.24034375000001,"end":99.15471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.36971875,"end":107.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.18284375,"end":108.89159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.24159375,"end":111.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.62096875,"end":113.58284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":114.24096875000001,"end":116.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.19409375000001,"end":119.03346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.67471875000001,"end":126.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.31909375000001,"end":129.58034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.45784375,"end":131.90909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.22534375,"end":157.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.96909375,"end":155.44971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.93909375,"end":158.70659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.12846875,"end":160.03971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.55034375,"end":162.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.64721875,"end":160.91721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.43159375000002,"end":188.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.25909375,"end":189.46971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.84096875,"end":192.59159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.09784375,"end":193.68846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.31284375,"end":195.49409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":195.44346875000002,"end":195.89909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.59534375,"end":207.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.16721875000002,"end":211.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.76159375,"end":215.23784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.69346875000002,"end":224.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.58721875,"end":220.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.68784375,"end":227.80971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.40034375000002,"end":229.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.20159375,"end":235.47096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.55534375000002,"end":238.69409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.16659375,"end":242.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.96346875,"end":244.80284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.93784375,"end":246.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.21596875,"end":248.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.76846875,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.18159375000002,"end":251.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.54846875,"end":258.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.64034375,"end":278.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":275.04284375000003,"end":278.012843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