{"error":false,"id":["152020"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152020,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152020","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T09:54:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T10:04:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:28","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db175b4ca8e6741015be12ebde737ab3c1955be169921a0a7170c1acf7fe19f66a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:54:48 - 10:04:16","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、行政院函請審議「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員柯志恩等17人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員賴士葆等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例增訂第三十六條之四條文草案」案。\n六、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n七、本院國民黨黨團擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n八、本院委員張智倫等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n九、本院委員王世堅等16人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十五條、第三十六條之二及第四十條條文修正草案」案。\n十、本院委員郭國文等19人擬具「中小企業發展條例第三十六條之二條文修正草案」案。\n十一、本院委員邱議瑩等29人擬具「中小企業發展條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（詢答及處理，委員郭國文等人提案如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）【4月29日、5月1日及2日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":221,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時54分）謝謝主席。是不是請部長？"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，現在電價的問題，當然國民黨或是民眾黨開始說，如果不遵照他們的決議，明天電業法要逕付二讀修法，未來調整電價將經由立法院同意，如果沒有就要凍結預算，未來在審預算的時候要杯葛。對於這樣的說法，你在部長這個位子這麼久了，未來如果是這樣處理的話，該怎麼應對？"],["王部長美花：第一個，現在電價的審議按照法律規定，由中央主管機關定之，我們也設立了審議委員會。這個審議委員會坦白講，裡面有專家學者、相關的工商團體以及消費團體，這個部分經過非常細膩的討論。譬如說，這一次的電價事實上經過前段縝密的規劃，到大會討論的時候都還有做一些修改。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒錯，部長，這是現在的電業法……"],["王部長美花：是，現在電業法的審查方式。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是現在要逕付二讀，要修的是未來電價要送到立法院審議通過才能漲。"],["王部長美花：對，我……"],["陳委員亭妃：你覺得這樣的做法……而且他們明天可能要抽出逕付二讀。在這樣的狀況之下，在你的專業角度，你的感覺是什麼？你的看法是什麼？"],["王部長美花：我們當然認為現在的機制比較好、比較對，因為在審議會裡面會就台電的成本等等考量，然後判斷要怎麼調整。如果還要到立法院同意，整個時間會銜接不了，而且非常有可能，比如說審議會說是A方案，立法院改成B方案，這樣的話，未來審議會的機制會變成比較奇怪的情形。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是他說如果沒有過，如果你們不照走就要杯葛預算，這當中怎麼辦？"],["王部長美花：我想國會理性問政，我們行政機關努力做事情，為了國家好，大家應該不要有黨派的爭議。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，電價現在開始肯定會吵不完，對不對？一定會吵不完。如果你們執意一定要依照電價委員會的審議結果漲電價的話，我相信未來整個立法院一定是吵翻天。我覺得還是要溝通，該怎麼溝通還是要溝通，因為520之前跟520之後，對整個執政團隊的態度跟未來的方向都有很大的影響，我們在立法院已經第5屆，我們看了那麼多，知道沒有溝通未來大家可能就是一場混戰，最後什麼都過不了，什麼都做不了，這不是人民之福。我還是認為在520之前，部長做一天和尚要敲一天鐘，還是要溝通，否則對整個人民未來的方向都不利，我認為溝通才是上上之策。","我再請教部長，那一天部長到臺南，我們經濟委員會特地下去，可是從你們回復給我們的，我覺得我們委員會下去有什麼用？還不是一樣。你們今天對於麻豆工業區污水處理的部分，你知道嗎？哪有一個新興工業區沒有設污水處理？這是什麼狀況？你說舊有的OK，新的工業區沒有設污水處理，市政府也沒編列預算，就整個工業區擺在那裡，這到底是怎麼一回事啊？是你們的問題，還是地方的問題？然後那一天有理事長提出來，你們回文給我說，當下是給工業區一個期待，結果回來以後中央發了一個文說3月21號已經公告遴選的結果，所以是由舊的工業區開始，包括永康、仁德，麻豆因為新興是在候補，這是什麼狀態啊？表示我們經濟委員會下去就沒有用啊！就因為我們大家知道沒有嘛，所以才拜託經濟部要來協助，結果還是一樣的答案，那幹嘛？我們經濟委員會下去幹嘛？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，這個部分，事實上，我本來就跟同仁約下午會針對看過以後的所有問題走一遍，看怎麼協助，至於委員剛才提到的協助設污水場這個部分，我們同仁講應該是按照原來的規定有一個收件的時間機制……"],["陳委員亭妃：當然啊！"],["王部長美花：過了之後，因為這個不會只有一年，未來怎麼樣再增加這個部分，我會再跟同仁討論一下。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，它是一個新興工業區，你不覺得很扯？新興工業區沒有污水處理系統，這誇張到了極點，然後整個都停擺在那裡，我們現在在鼓勵大家要設廠，結果一個工業區停擺在那裡。第二、我們看到柳科環保園區廠商協進會的理事長的提案，他說有啊，3月27號就有作成決議，如果有作成決議，4月22號還要來我們經濟委員會，理事長還說都沒有得到任何訊息，你們這是什麼態度啊？給我們的資料就是這個。"],["李總經理丁來：委員報告，有關柳科水池的問題，基本上，我們和經發局要再跟廠商聯誼會來討論，因為目前來講，柳科的供水是直接由烏山頭水場的管線直接供水，這沒有問題，廠商擔心的是缺水的時候……"],["陳委員亭妃：就是缺水啊！因為有蓄水池啊，有蓄水桶、有蓄水裝置，結果都用不到。"],["李總經理丁來：是，所以這部分，我們就跟經發局、廠商聯誼會來討論怎麼樣來改善。"],["陳委員亭妃：這還是我們政府花錢去做的欸，很好笑耶！政府花錢去做，結果沒有在用嫌惡設施，是這樣嗎？"],["李總經理丁來：報告委員，原來這個部分是市政府的設施，後來我們有跟他談，後來接管，所以接管這個部分，我們跟經發局、廠商聯誼會來討論未來怎麼改善，這個部分我們會來處理。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，還有另外一個，就是現在私人開發的工業區，臺南很多啦，但是就是路權的部分、公共設施的管理，所有都是上面踢下面、下面踢上面，部長那天講得很清楚，我告訴你，光剛剛三個問題，我約5月6號早上9點，我們一次去把它處理清楚，因為部長說你要重新走一遍嘛。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，那你走一遍之後，5月6號我們到現場，我要答案，我覺得我們都在拚速度、拚效率，我們叫這些中小企業要拚天下、要去接訂單，結果我們政府給人家的，尤其南部都好像自己事情自己解決，我覺得這是不對的！"],["王部長美花：沒有，沒有，我們其實非常重視那樣的溝通，相關的議題，我們也會先請同仁研究。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，5月9號9點我會排三場，那再麻煩部長，我們就一次把它看清楚，然後你們的答案在哪裡，再麻煩一下，否則，我覺得經濟委員會下去得到的卻是這個問題。還有一個缺工，現在中小企業全部都缺工，缺工要怎麼解決也是大問題，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["主席：謝謝。","繼續請林岱樺委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":510,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-10","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","謝衣鳯","賴士葆","邱議瑩","張智倫","郭國文","陳亭妃","林岱樺","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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bicyn 明天這個電業法要進一步二讀要修法要經由立法院來同意未來調整電價一定要經由立法院來同意那如果沒有的話就要凍結預算未來在審預算的時候要來做一個杯葛動作那你覺得這樣的一個說法我想部長你在這個位置這麼久了我想你的感覺跟未來如果是這樣的一個處理的話該怎麼去應對"},{"start":61.206,"end":61.346,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":85.066,"end":85.106,"text":"賴主席"},{"start":100.814,"end":115.561,"text":"通過,那你覺得這樣的一個做法,而且他明天就可能要進步二度嗎?要抽出進步二度嗎?那在這樣的一個狀況之下,在你的專業角度,你的感覺是什麼?"},{"start":116.161,"end":120.785,"text":"我們的看法是什麼?我們當然是認為現在的機制是比較好、比較對的啦。那因為這個部分就,裡面在審議會又就台電的成本等等的去做考量,然後來判斷要怎麼調整。那如果這個還要到立法院同意的時候,那這個整個的時間,"},{"start":135.418,"end":160.094,"text":""},{"start":160.501,"end":171.388,"text":"adequate to the policy of the National Assembly, we, the administrative bodies, will do our best to ensure the well-being of our country."},{"start":177.858,"end":192.636,"text":"adequate?一定會炒不完如果你們執意就是一定要依照電價委員會的審議來漲電價的話那麼我相信未來在整個立法院一定是炒翻天我覺得還是要溝通啊"},{"start":193.337,"end":194.158,"text":"adequ."},{"start":194.158,"end":217.713,"text":"該怎麼溝通還是要溝通啊。因為這520之前跟520之後他所面臨的整個執政團隊的一個態度跟未來的方向其實都有很大的影響所以我還是希望因為總是我們在立法院已經是第五屆了我們看了那麼多沒有溝通未來就是可能"},{"start":218.985,"end":219.185,"text":"議員柯志恩"},{"start":237.585,"end":249.667,"text":""},{"start":250.111,"end":276.084,"text":""},{"start":276.277,"end":292.428,"text":"你知道嗎哪有一個工業區新興工業區沒有設污水處理這是什麼地方啊這是什麼狀況你說舊有的OK新的工業區沒有設污水"},{"start":293.695,"end":319.343,"text":""},{"start":319.72,"end":348.16,"text":"發了一個文說那3月21號已經公告領選的結果所以是由舊的工業區開始包括永康仁德然後把它都因為新興是在候補這是什麼狀態啊那表示我們經濟委員會下去就沒有用啊就因為我們大家知道就沒有嘛所以才拜託我們經濟部要來協助嘛結果還是一樣的答案那幹嘛"},{"start":349.343,"end":351.124,"text":"那我們經濟委員會下去幹嘛?那這個部分事實上我今天下午我就本來跟同仁約下午會針對去的所有的問題我們會走一遍那怎麼協助那至於委員剛才提到的那個我們對協助涉汙水廠這個部分那如果我們同仁講應該是按照原來的這個規定有一個收建的時間機制那過了之後那未來"},{"start":377.245,"end":391.571,"text":"因為這個不會只有一年那未來怎麼樣再增加這個部分我會再跟同仁討論一下部長他是一個新興的工業區你會不會覺得很扯新興工業區沒有污水處理系統這誇張到了極點然後整個都停擺在那裡我們現在在鼓勵大家要設廠結果一個工業區停擺在那裡第二個"},{"start":405.003,"end":418.849,"text":"我們看到柳科環保園區廠商協經會的提案李市長的提案然後他說有啊這個3月27號就有做成決議如果有做成決議4月22號還要來我們這個經濟委員會我們李市長還說都沒有得到任何訊息你們這是什麼態度啊給我們的資料就是這個"},{"start":431.786,"end":446.96,"text":"委員報告吼,有關那個柳科那個水池的問題吼,因為基本上我們要跟那個經發局再跟廠商的聯誼會大家來討論,因為目前來講柳科的供水是直接由吳山陀結廠的管系直接供水都沒有問題,那廠商擔心的是缺水的時候,"},{"start":447.58,"end":449.962,"text":"就是缺水啊,因為有蓄水池啊,你有蓄水桶,有蓄水裝置,結果都用不到。是,所以這部分我們要跟經發局跟廠商聯誼會來討論,怎麼樣來改善這個措施。還在跟政府開展去做的呢,有好笑嗎?政府開展去做,結果沒在用。"},{"start":465.658,"end":488.728,"text":"包括原來這個部分是市政府的設施啦,後來我們有跟他談,後來接管,所以接管這個部分我們跟經發局跟廠商聯理會來討論,後來怎麼改善,這個部分我們會來做一個處理。好,還有另外一個,就是我們現在私人開發的工具,台南很多啦,但是就是那個入權的部分,公共設施的管理,"},{"start":489.648,"end":517.005,"text":"所有就是上面踢下面下面踢上面部長那天講得很清楚我告訴你光剛剛三個問題我約五月六號早上九點我們一次去把它處理清楚因為部長說你要重新走一遍嘛那走一遍之後五月六號我們到現場我要答案我覺得我們都在拼速度拼效率"},{"start":518.137,"end":530.079,"text":"而結果我們叫這些中小企業要拚天下,要去接電話打電話。結果我們的政府讓人家尤其南部都好像自己事情自己解決。"},{"start":531.485,"end":559.054,"text":"我覺得這是不對的我們其實非常重視那樣的一個溝通那相關的議題呢我們也會我先請同仁先研究5月6號9點我會排三場那再麻煩我們就一次把它看清楚啦然後你們的答案在哪裡啦再麻煩一下否則我覺得經濟委員會下去得到的資料卻是這個問題還有一個缺工現在中小企業全部都缺工"},{"start":560.964,"end":565.299,"text":""}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}