{"error":false,"id":["152026"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152026,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152026","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T10:07:15+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T10:16:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db187d0ad12d430bec6d575e50b9cd8685a55be169921a0a717a7050ee30736cb025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱鎮軍","委員發言時間":"10:07:15 - 10:16:15","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員王育敏等19人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【以上議案，如經復議則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":393,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時7分）主席好，我們還是有請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好，你本身也是醫生，剛剛談論了很多次，目前健保點值低於0.9的狀況，你認為這是正常的嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前平均點值並沒有低於0.9。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那現在呢？現在是多少？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然要看結算啦，但是目前應該是在0.9以上。"],["邱委員鎮軍：到底是多少？"],["薛部長瑞元：我請署長說明。"],["石署長崇良：跟委員報告，因為我們的年度結算要到6月，所以還沒有辦法完全……"],["邱委員鎮軍：那去年呢？"],["石署長崇良：就是去年，去年的結算要到6月。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，你去年11月在這邊說，因為你們本來要用公務預算支付新冠確診的治療費用，後來轉成健保給付，病人又多到基層去診所去治療，所以點數上升，點值一直下降，因為你們覺得沒差，改一個地方付錢而已，結果造成後續的事情發生，是吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：這不是沒差啦，當然是有差。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你當時為什麼要這樣決定呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：本來這個疫情下降……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們現在要修法，就是要讓醫護有保障，因為你們想改就改……"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，不是，不是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：結果造成今天這樣的後果，限縮了臺灣人民所有的就醫權。"],["薛部長瑞元：原來新冠是第五類的傳染病，因為到後來它的致病率及致重症率降低了，所以我們就把它調為四級，這全世界都是這樣。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我雖然不在醫界，但是也有在醫界的同事跟朋友，包括很多醫療團體，他們對於今天要審的修正案都非常的支持，你個人的看法呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然了，以各種不同的團體來看，醫界一定要是支持的，這個是沒話講，因為可以讓他的收入增加，但是它的影響必須好好去討論。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們看一下圖，選前你說過健保點值1元1點，朝野同意就沒有難度，這句話的意思是不是表示認同？你當時講的嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：這個是整個……我要講的是整個全民……"],["邱委員鎮軍：健保點值的部分有沒有修改的必要？"],["薛部長瑞元：我在講的是整個全民健保法的修正。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，你現在講的意思就是你贊成嘛。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，沒有，我的意思就是如果要修改，讓總額支付制度廢掉的話，只要是朝野同意，我沒有意見。但是現在只修一條的話，沒有整體去做考量，我是覺得不妥。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還有一個意思就是，反對的人覺得醫護就該犧牲奉獻，你們都喜歡說有政府，勞保就不會倒，現在就變成有政府，健保就不會倒，你們繼續壓榨醫護，先倒的是醫院，倒楣的就是全臺灣人。"],["薛部長瑞元：不會是這樣子的啦，這樣太過簡化的說法，我不贊成。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我再問你賴總統當選人有說過什麼，你有印象嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：他說過的東西很多。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們看一下影片，這是本人吧？應該不是AI啦。","（播放影片）"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長，剛剛那個是本人吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然。"],["邱委員鎮軍：應該不是AI做的吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那是真的有說過還是詐騙？"],["薛部長瑞元：應該是有說過啦。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以賴清德是總統候選人的時候，到處去講健保點數要保住在0.9以上，目標要到1點1元，當時衛福部也配合啊，不是嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：衛福部並沒有被告知要怎麼樣去執行。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，可是你們也知道這件事嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們知道。"],["邱委員鎮軍：去年就說113年健保點數要補到0.9，現在是總統當選人講過，就當沒事了嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，沒有。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是部長你要卸任了？"],["薛部長瑞元：我剛剛已經有提到過，我在這17天之內，我能夠掌握的資源，就是我沒辦法去……"],["邱委員鎮軍：當時你不知道你能不能留任，現在知道了，520你沒有辦法留任之後，你就是故意要找這個藉口嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這不是故意哦！這本來就是權責，新的部長……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你當時為什麼不講呢？為什麼當時總統候選人開這種政見的時候，你們自己不提出來？你不糾正？"],["薛部長瑞元：我沒有被問到，我怎麼可能會去做這種事？"],["邱委員鎮軍：這不就跟選後調漲電價一樣嗎？通通都是選票的考量，通通都是為了選舉。"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，我跟委員報告，今天如果是我主政的話，我當然就可以來想辦法……"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是我來請教部長，就是現在你們提出的意見是新政府的意見？就是選後不算了嘛？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，沒有，就是我們現在的意見，衛福部的意見，我們現在。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以跟以後沒有關係？"],["薛部長瑞元：新政府也許有新的財源能夠去規劃出來，這個我們沒話講。"],["邱委員鎮軍：就是今天5月2號行政院要通過追加預算撥補台電1,000億，這個資金來源有沒有明確？有嘛，還有我們勞保的……"],["薛部長瑞元：我所理解的是用去年的歲計賸餘來做追加預算的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：就是公務預算嘛。現在健保點數補到我們講的0.9元，是不是也要用公務預算？為什麼台電就可以用公務預算，健保就要調漲我們的健保費？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個意思是這樣子，台電是因為有歲計賸餘，所以給它1,000億做調漲。健保的話，如果按照今天的法案通過，是每年要，那就必須要看政府是不是每年都有那麼多的歲計賸餘，這個不確定。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，我覺得我們是要讓醫療體系有法有據，你說這樣違反財政紀律。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你要不要看看你自己的報告寫過什麼東西？在你的報告裡傳遞的訊息就是醫護就該犧牲奉獻來達成你們的政治目的。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有這回事，這是各種……"],["邱委員鎮軍：選上再說？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是，這必須要各種的配套，而不是單單一個條文去調整就可以做得到。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還是因為民進黨是抗議起家，所以他吃定我們這些人都不會上街頭，等上街頭再說？"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好像很離題了。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是嘛，我講的是真的嘛，我們是……"],["薛部長瑞元：現在在講的是健保點值。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我跟你講，今天這件事情，我們所有的醫護人員都在看，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：醫護人員，本來就……"],["邱委員鎮軍：等一下……"],["薛部長瑞元：是有公務預算要來挹注的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我們的醫護人員，是誰站在醫護人員的反對面？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有站在反對面。現在要講健保點值，對象是醫療機構，醫護人員的部分是另外一個問題，也就是如果在健保裡面有給醫護人員的這種津貼，怎麼樣下到醫護人員；如果沒有的話，公務預算有沒有特別的一些計畫來幫忙醫護人員，這是兩件不同的事情，不要把它混為一談。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們報告說持續就健保收支進行研議，本席也相信你們有研議，現在就請你告訴大家，針對健保點數你們研議得怎麼樣？"],["薛部長瑞元：這也跟委員報告，就是今天的報告裡面，如果設0.95元的話，我們每年公務預算必須支出700億；如果設1點1元的話就要1,150億，這個數字……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我是希望你們在做決定的時候一定要多方考慮，好不好？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然，我也希望這個法要通過要多方考慮。"],["邱委員鎮軍：謝謝部長。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員。等一下廖偉翔委員質詢結束後，我們休息5分鐘。","現在請涂權吉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-14","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","黃秀芳","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","劉建國","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","盧縣一","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","賴惠員","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；二、委員蘇清\n泉等27人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康\n保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133901_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.14909375000000002,"end":3.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.36596875,"end":20.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.820968750000002,"end":21.715343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.84971875,"end":33.08909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.190343750000004,"end":39.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":40.05846875,"end":42.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":44.96909375,"end":45.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.03659375,"end":46.049093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":46.63971875,"end":47.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":47.77034375,"end":51.617843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.562843750000006,"end":53.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.727218750000006,"end":53.744093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.744093750000005,"end":55.04346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":54.55409375,"end":54.790343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.34721875,"end":60.66284375},{"sp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原來是新冠是第五級"},{"start":114.201,"end":139.819,"text":"adequ五類的傳染病。那因為到後來的話,它的致病率以及它的致重症率是降低的。所以我們就把它調為四級。這全世界都是這樣子。我雖然不在醫界啦,但是也有在醫界的同事跟朋友,包括很多醫療團體,他們對於今天要審的修改案都非常的支持。你個人的看法呢?"},{"start":141.507,"end":164.932,"text":"當然以各種不同的團體來看一屆一定是支持這個是沒話講因為他可以讓他的收入增加但是他的影響這必須要好好去做討論選前你看一下我們看一下你說過健保點子一元一點草野同意就沒有難度這句話的意思是不是表示認同"},{"start":166.246,"end":168.368,"text":" bicyn 建保典值的部分有沒有修改的部分?"},{"start":168.368,"end":172.331,"text":"bicyn 建保典值的部分有沒有修改的部分?"},{"start":172.331,"end":177.215,"text":"bicyn 建保典值的部分有沒有修改的部分?"},{"start":177.215,"end":183.28,"text":"bicyn 建保典值的部分有沒有修改的部分?"},{"start":188.024,"end":192.827,"text":"閱讀者:「反對的人覺得醫護就該犧牲奉獻。你們都喜歡說有政府勞保就不會倒。現在就變成有政府健保就不會倒。」"},{"start":211.345,"end":215.109,"text":"łecum yi gai dao ding jiao kui"},{"start":233.739,"end":237.261,"text":"這是本人吧?這是本人嗎?應該不是AI啦?"},{"start":252.178,"end":273.029,"text":"議長剛剛那個是本人吧?應該不是AI做的吧?那是真的有說過還是詐騙?應該是有說過。所以賴清德是總統候選人的時候,到處去講健保點數要保固在0.9以上,目標要到1.1元。那當時衛福部也配合啊,不是嗎?"},{"start":274.636,"end":277.718,"text":"二、國民黨黨團擬具 «全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":292.065,"end":312.866,"text":"我已經剛剛有提到過,我在這17天之內的話,給我能夠掌握的資源,就是沒有辦法去執行這個。不是,就是說當時你不知道,部長你能不能留任,現在知道了520你沒有辦法留任之後,你就是故意要找,就故意找這個資源嗎?不是故意喔,這不是故意,這本來就是權責。新的部長。那你當時為什麼不講呢?"},{"start":314.794,"end":340.655,"text":"為什麼當時總統府選人開這種政見的時候你們自己不提出來?我沒有被問到我怎麼可能會去做這種事。這不就跟我們選後調漲店家一樣嗎?通通都是選票的考量。通通都是為了選舉。不是啊,我跟委員報告啦。今天如果是我主這個其證的話我當然可以來想辦法還是我請教部長就是說"},{"start":341.956,"end":365.333,"text":"現在你們提出的意見是新政府的意見?就是選後不算了嗎?沒有沒有,就是我們現在的意見,衛福部的意見,我們現在。現在,所以跟以後沒有關係?新政府也許他有新的財源能夠去規劃出來。我們就今天5月2號行政院要通過追加預算,撥補台電1000億,這個資金來源有沒有明確?"},{"start":370.486,"end":375.052,"text":" bicyn 現在健保也點數不到我們講的0.9元是不是也要用公務預算?"},{"start":386.747,"end":412.128,"text":"為什麼為什麼我們要這個臺電的就可以用公務預算我們健保的呢就要就要調漲我們的健保費這個意思是這樣子臺電這因為有這個稅計剩餘所以他給他一千億做這一個調漲健保的話如果按照今天的法案通過的話是每年要那就必須要看政府是不是每年都有那麼多的稅計剩餘這個不確定"},{"start":416.31,"end":418.373,"text":"我們是要讓醫療體系有法有據。你這樣說違反財政紀律,你要不要看看你自己的報告寫過什麼東西?"},{"start":429.258,"end":445.128,"text":" bicyn 您的報告裡傳遞的訊息就是醫護就該犧牲奉獻來表達,來達成你們的政治目的嗎?不是,這必須要各種的配套,而不是單單一位小粉去調整就可以做得到的。"},{"start":451.665,"end":456.93,"text":"議員王育敏等19人擬具:「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。議員王育敏等19人擬具:「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案。"},{"start":468.251,"end":496.578,"text":""},{"start":496.658,"end":507.809,"text":"你們報告說持續健保收支進行檢討研議本席也相信你們有研議現在就請你告訴大家你們對於針對健保點數你們研議的怎麼樣"},{"start":510.614,"end":535.808,"text":"這也是根本報告,就今天的報告裡面,如果是0.95的話,我們每年就公務預算必須要支出700億。如果是1.1億的話,就1150億。好啦,我是希望啦,你們在做決定的時候,一定要多方的考慮,好不好?當然,我也希望說這個法要通過要多方的考慮。好啦,謝謝部長。"},{"start":538.756,"end":540.032,"text":"好謝謝邱委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}