{"error":false,"id":["152092"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152092,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152092","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T11:44:07+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T11:51:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:55","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db19d2fdf2a210869dad575e50b9cd8685a55be169921a0a7176a1a6418575a0b1b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"11:44:07 - 11:51:02","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員王育敏等19人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【以上議案，如經復議則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":816,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（11時44分）謝謝召委，我請部長。"],["主席：好，請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長雖然快要離開這個位置，階段性的角色，但是我覺得重點，重要的理念跟想法，我還是要再一次確認。部長，我們來看一下，裡面有哪幾句話是你說的？這個表格裡面哪幾句話是你說的，你記得嗎？哪一句？部長，哪幾句話是你說的？"],["薛部長瑞元：第四個那個，涉及修法的那個，還有第五個破壞整個健保總額制度，不是一個條文就能夠處理的。"],["李委員彥秀：第五個？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["李委員彥秀：不是一個條文就可以處理，要從長計議，還有哪一個？涉及修法如果朝野立委一致同意，沒有什麼難度對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["李委員彥秀：好，這答案就出來了。你個人到底認為，在這個位置上這麼久，在衛福部也擔任這麼久的時間，你覺得朝向1比1到底合不合理？1點1塊錢到底合不合理？"],["薛部長瑞元：這就是整個總額制度要重新……"],["李委員彥秀：你覺得這個目標到底合不合理？這個目標到底對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個不是目標對不對的問題，是整個制度要去重新再……"],["李委員彥秀：我知道制度當然要有配套措施，但是目標對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：目標的話，這要看啦！其實真的是要看……"],["李委員彥秀：那你要去打臉一下賴清德。"],["薛部長瑞元：因為你……"],["李委員彥秀：賴清德說1點1塊錢是重大的目標，你跟他的理念不同。今天你講的，就是你當時在選前的時候，1月9日講的是，如果朝野立委一致同意的話，其實沒有什麼困難度，你後面又提到說要從長計議，其實我覺得這個是選前的薛部長跟選後的薛部長，兩個標準不同的態度，在我看來是這樣子。"],["薛部長瑞元：應該不是這樣子。"],["李委員彥秀：部長我時間不多，我也不跟你探討，但是禮拜二的時候醫護團體就來陳情，有大動作的，因為我們目前把總額制度的問題都推給醫界。我想你我都非常清楚，我們多項醫療的服務點值，很久都沒有調整了，現在一顆滷蛋在便當裡面從10塊、12塊、15塊、18塊，到現在加一顆滷蛋有些要加到20塊。有一些便當店比較有名的要加到20塊、22塊，甚至25塊的都有，但是我們的醫療服務點值，多年都沒有調整過。","我想你比我更清楚，而且我們無論從分區管理、斷頭、核刪到攤扣跟自清等等介入，最後點值被扣的亂七八糟。從91年健保實施以來，我們的點值從來沒有達到1塊錢，所以這也是醫界長期的目標。這也是為什麼賴清德在面對醫界的時候，選前才丟出來我們要向1點1塊錢的目標來邁進。我們的醫療服務的價值其實是長期被低估的，所以我們也看到這個表，每一年醫界都要吸收健保總額上百億左右的缺口。","所以這樣的缺口造成我們醫療院所沒有辦法好好去落實更多更好的政策，包括分級醫療、醫療服務費等等，其實這些都很難讓我們醫事人員願意留任。我們常常在說醫界五大皆空，大家都在做血汗，這也是為什麼我們可以支持1點1塊錢的目標。這個是長期以來，我長期在衛環的想法，我很訝異你覺得這個目標你沒有辦法支持，我覺得你坐在這個位子上，我很訝異你這樣子講。"],["薛部長瑞元：我不是說這個……"],["李委員彥秀：所以剛才賴士葆委員說，其實你還是可以去爭取，林右昌內政部長在最後一個禮拜，都還可以給里長春節慰問金，他也爭取到，你比他「細漢」嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：不是這樣說……"],["李委員彥秀：你要去爭取啊！還是在交接過程當中，你還沒有跟邱泰源溝通，還是你還沒有跟我們賴清德底下的陳志鴻溝通？這個都沒有交接到嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個不是交接的問題，交接我有跟……"],["李委員彥秀：欸！這個是政策延續的問題……"],["薛部長瑞元：我有跟邱……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你同意這個是政策延續性的問題，這是賴清德重要的政策，你知道嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：委員我說一下，我跟邱部長有交接，這個事情他知道。但是你剛剛提到陳志鴻老師，他從來沒有問我這個問題。"],["李委員彥秀：他就是規劃賴清德重要的醫療政策，你知道啦！"],["薛部長瑞元：對，但是他沒有跟我徵詢過。"],["李委員彥秀：但我覺得這個政策是延續性的，特別都是民進黨執政。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["李委員彥秀：這是賴清德重要的目標，我可以接受未來有審查機制在裡面，畢竟有一些不良的醫界少數，我同意，但是我覺得這個目標是長期，我覺得衛福部我們長期在衛環，每一個朝野的委員都支持，我很訝異你今天在這個態度上轉了180度的彎。"],["薛部長瑞元：我講一句話就好，如果點值1點1元是通過的，也沒有辦法保證剛剛委員所講的，分級醫療、醫護的薪水可以上升這些，沒有辦法保證那一個，所以……"],["李委員彥秀：對，我覺得政策目標有太多事情都要去努力，但是不能因為說，你沒有辦法保證，分級醫療也是長期你們應該去努力的啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：是啊！"],["李委員彥秀：健保點值不要讓醫界血汗，也是你應該的，每一項都是在現場我們……"],["薛部長瑞元：但它無法用1點1元去達到這個目的。"],["李委員彥秀：我覺得每一個政策都應該想辦法落實，我們的醫療政策才會更完整，我們剛才在自豪，我們的健保制度是全世界前五名，我們很驕傲。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有錯啊！"],["李委員彥秀：所以更要留住醫護……"],["薛部長瑞元：對啊！所以我們要做一些同步改革。"],["李委員彥秀：同步改革也是賴清德說的目標，所以看你們怎麼兌現。"],["薛部長瑞元：1點1元是我們其中一個目標，但是……"],["李委員彥秀：對嘛！同步改革嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：但是要達到還需要……"],["李委員彥秀：但是今天召委排的題目在這裡嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：還需要其他的一些方案必須要來做配合。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["李委員彥秀：我知道啦！部長，趕快去爭取，趕快去交接，我們希望你在這件事情上可以像林右昌一樣，交接前幫醫界朝這個目標邁進，爭取到預算，林右昌可以，薛瑞元也可以。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝李彥秀委員，接下來我們請盧縣一委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-14","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","黃秀芳","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","劉建國","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","盧縣一","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","賴惠員","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；二、委員蘇清\n泉等27人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康\n保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133901_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":0.50346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.91159375,"end":9.396593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.42159375,"end":12.383468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.180343750000002,"end":16.75409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.20971875,"end":28.87034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.32596875,"end":31.87409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.09346875,"end":33.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.190343750000004,"end":35.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.22346875,"end":37.86471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.68721875,"end":40.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.205968750000004,"end":52.61346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.34096875,"end":42.62346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.61346875,"end":53.25471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.63034375,"end":52.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.689093750000005,"end":57.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.77721875,"end":58.35096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.91221875,"end":62.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.04284375,"end":59.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.000343750000006,"end":61.38846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.789093750000006,"end":63.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":62.822843750000004,"end":63.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.97034375000001,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.18409375,"end":78.12846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.31409375,"end":80.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":80.54159375,"end":84.92909375},{"spe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bicyn 您覺得這個目標到底合不合理?這個目標到底對不對?"},{"start":95.384,"end":115.128,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":115.128,"end":130.145,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":130.145,"end":148.643,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":148.643,"end":166.766,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":166.766,"end":181.869,"text":""},{"start":181.869,"end":203.046,"text":"�"},{"start":203.046,"end":229.445,"text":""},{"start":229.765,"end":254.622,"text":"這是長期啊我長期在未還我的想法我很訝異說你覺得這個目標你沒有辦法支持我覺得你坐在這個位置上我很訝異你這樣子講所以剛才賴視法委員講說其實你還是可以去爭取林佑昌內政部長在最後一個禮拜都還可以給里長春節慰問金他也爭取到你比他小一點對不對不是這樣說嘛"},{"start":257.163,"end":267.934,"text":" bicyn 您要去爭取啊還是在交接過程當你還沒有跟邱太元溝通還是你還沒有跟我們賴清德底下私底下的陳志宏溝通這個都沒有交接到嗎"},{"start":270.801,"end":295.953,"text":"這個不是交接的問題。交接我有跟邱…這個是政策延續的問題。市長,部長你同意這個是政策延續性的問題。這是耐心的重要的政策,你知道嘛。因為委員,我說一下,就是說我跟邱部長,現在邱部長有交接,這個事情他知道。但是你剛剛提到陳志宏老師那個,他沒有,從來沒有問我這件問題。"},{"start":297.874,"end":313.626,"text":" bicyn 它就是規劃賴清德重要的醫療政策,你知道啦。但是我覺得這個政策是延續性的,特別都是民進黨執政。這是賴清德重要的目標。我可以接受未來有審查機制在裡面。"},{"start":314.326,"end":314.566,"text":"我講一句話就好。"},{"start":333.064,"end":347.415,"text":"如果說這點子1.1元的話是通過的,也沒有辦法保證剛剛委員所講的分級醫療、醫護的這個薪水可以上升這些,沒有辦法保證那個。"},{"start":348.456,"end":361.482,"text":"所以我覺得政策目標對太多事情都要去努力但是不能因為說你沒有辦法保證分級醫療也是長期你們應該去努力的啊然後健保點是不要讓醫界做血汗也是你應該的每一項都是在現場用一點語言去達到這個目的"},{"start":366.937,"end":396.937,"text":"�"},{"start":397.077,"end":397.778,"text":"好 謝謝理研究委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}