{"error":false,"id":["152103"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152103,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152103","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T11:59:31+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T12:06:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db18159ea8ffed58cead575e50b9cd8685a55be169921a0a7172c23e8c81565850e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:59:31 - 12:06:58","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員王育敏等19人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n二、委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案。\n【以上議案，如經復議則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":915,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時59分）謝謝主席，楊瓊瓔發言，我們再請部長。"],["主席：好，請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，今天修了這第六十二條，本席也有提案。本席的提案是直接在點值方面就是1塊，我們中國國民黨的提案，也就是超過每年度醫療給付費用總額的部分，由中央主管機關編列預算支應。那在這個平均點值的部分是不得低於0.95，請教部長你支持吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：這部分的話必須要去算，我已經有把這個數據提供給我們委員會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：提高的方向是大家可以認同嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：如果0.95的話，那就是一年必須要有700億，他是長期的，而且這700億會越來越多，這要看我們國家的財政能否去負擔。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席請教你的立場，你先確認立場，如果立場是一樣的，大家共同討論才有方向。"],["薛部長瑞元：立場很簡單，有錢就有辦法做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你一定會同意的，對不對？對啦，你就坦白這樣說嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：但我是認為只有去調整這個點值，沒有辦法處理健保的所有的這些問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還好你這麼說，所以有一些……"],["薛部長瑞元：所以必須要有配套的措施。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，還好你這麼說。"],["薛部長瑞元：不然這個錢好像打水漂一樣，丟進去就沒了啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不能這樣講，這是我們需要的不是打水漂，人民的健康如果健康，當然這個國力會強啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：但是其他的問題沒有解決，也沒有辦法解決……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這個打水漂，我絕對不同意你這樣的形容詞。"],["薛部長瑞元：如果其他問題沒有解決的話，那健保還是有問題的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個就是我們必須去討論，但是不能說把錢拿進來給點值叫做打水漂，這一點絕對不同意。"],["薛部長瑞元：只有處理點值的問題，是沒有辦法解決臺灣現在健保的問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你也是有作為的，所以第一個就是我們發覺到疫情前跟疫情後，我也要謝謝你，把疫情後大家增加的這些，你用安全基金來撥補給我們所有的醫療體系。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這樣子就是真正的在協助我們的醫療體系，這個才是我們要討論的。"],["薛部長瑞元：這是補到0.9，目前大概花了差不多50億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！因為他們增加一倍以上嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：第四季還沒結算，還會再增加。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！我們兩季都已經撥補。"],["薛部長瑞元：三季。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：然後第三、第四季嘛！所以我要特別謝謝你這一點，因為你要針對目前的樣態去解決他們的問題。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我一直在跟你討論，本席說尤其診所的不能倒，那是我們臺灣之光，倒了就完蛋了。所以你也馬上看到這個問題，也接受我們的建議去做撥補的工作，所以你是有作為，我跟你討論的也就是點值。我要確認一件事情，點值至少是0.5以上，你應該是同意這樣子的方式吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：什麼0.5以上？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是我們今天要修的第六十二條這個條例，點值1點至少要有0.95元以上，這個方向是同意的嘛？"],["薛部長瑞元：就是說需要一年700億以上。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，你先確認你的方向，我們再來討論。"],["薛部長瑞元：這需要有配套的措施。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，這個很好，配套措施就是如果比總額多出來，就由中央政府編列進來，我們有給你配套。"],["薛部長瑞元：這就變成沒有總額了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼總額就沒有？還是限縮在那裡嘛！"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，沒關係，我們就來討論一個原則，第一、點值1點在0.95元以上，本席提案是1元，0.95以上這個方向大家是共同的，那配套錢怎麼來……"],["薛部長瑞元：這樣就是總額沒有了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是中央政府要來撥補嘛！怎麼沒有？"],["薛部長瑞元：本來就沒有了啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：0.95怎麼會沒有？就跟你用安全基金來補一樣嘛！對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：你固定點值下去之後，是量沒辦法控制，那個就爆了啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我跟你講，我們目前採取德國的方式用總額來切，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：德國的是超過總額的部分，他是打折支付，要怎麼樣打折……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：每一個國情不一樣，本席告訴你的是，目前這個總額是由陳時中部長從德國的制度拿過來的，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：不盡然。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒關係，我們每一個時間的樣態不一樣，所以你就否決了陳時中喔？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，時機不一樣啦！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：每一個樣態不一樣的時候，我們就要去討論，的確，我們需要這樣的協調，我也希望調整，我也希望待會我們在討論的時候你能夠支持。還有一點我要拜託你一下，我們的老年人口跟醫療需求，在2030年至少需要5.5萬的護理人員，但現在每一年流失的是5,000名護理人員。在這樣的情況下本席要請教，我們改善健保給付的點值，因為這個問題必須要改善，針對護理執業環境的困境，你們要怎麼去調整？三班護病比何時有條文進來，能夠保障他們不再流失？一年5,000個不要做，這我很緊張欸！"],["薛部長瑞元：進來還是一樣有那麼多，我跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是沒這麼多才會少！"],["薛部長瑞元：從今年第一季來看的話，我們的護理人員是增加的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是我們的需求增加啊！你不用跟我咬文嚼字啦！因為我們知道健保給予的不足，會導致護理人員沒有辦法調薪跟加班費嘛！你如果只有專案補一下，那個只有治標，所以我還是回來根源，三班的護病比，你要什麼時候可以入法？"],["薛部長瑞元：現在就已經有，至於入法的部分，就是如果沒有達到的必須要處罰。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！所以我不希望……"],["薛部長瑞元：這必須要給醫療機構一個時間去把人找到啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這只是治標不治本嘛！所以你說了一句名言我滿認同的，你說要小翻修，你的小翻修要翻修什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：喔！這個多了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！"],["薛部長瑞元：包括藥價、包括……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說多了就表示這不是小翻修，因為目前所執行的政策跟法條，不足以應對現在的樣態對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，但是必須一塊一塊去處理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以請你給本席書面資料好不好？你的小翻修有很多，趕快提列出來，因為他還會蓋上部長是薛部長，我希望你歷史留名，加油好不好？謝謝！"],["薛部長瑞元：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝楊委員，接下來我們請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-14","speakers":["王育敏","蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","黃秀芳","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","廖偉翔","劉建國","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","盧縣一","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","賴惠員","陳瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":167,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員王育敏等18人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；二、委員蘇清\n泉等27人擬具「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案；三、國民黨黨團擬具「全民健康\n保險法第六十二條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1133901_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.852218750000002,"end":12.704093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.446593750000002,"end":14.290343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.42471875,"end":19.04909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.04909375,"end":19.63971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.77471875,"end":29.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":29.612843750000003,"end":47.33159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.837843750000005,"end":56.460968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":56.376593750000005,"end":59.09346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.659093750000004,"end":66.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.34534375,"end":71.14221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":71.14221875,"end":73.85909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":74.17971875,"end":78.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.02721875,"end":78.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":78.17909375,"end":78.34784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.34784375000001,"end":82.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":80.91284375000001,"end":82.75221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.75221875000001,"end":83.78159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":83.25846875,"end":86.17784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.09784375000001,"end":93.45096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":92.86034375000001,"end":95.27346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.42971875,"en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«全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案》案。Reporter 今天修了這第六十二條本席有提案本席的提案是直接在點子方面就是一塊我們中國國民黨的提案也就是超過每年度醫療給付費用總額的部分由中央主管機關編列預算支應在這個平均點子的部分是不得低於0.95請教部長你支持吧"},{"start":48.444,"end":66.533,"text":"這部分的話必須要去算,我已經有把這個數據提供給我們的這個委員會。提高的方向是大家可以認得嗎?如果0.95的話,那就是一年必須要有700億,而且它是長期的,而且這700億會越來越多。"},{"start":67.601,"end":76.924,"text":"ignty 本市請教你的立場。你先確認立場。如果立場是一樣的,大家共同討論才有方向。"},{"start":83.607,"end":97.343,"text":"對啦!你就貪白這樣說啦!但是我是認為只有去調整這個點子,沒有辦法處理健保的所有這些…還好你這麼說!所以必須要有配套的…這錢好像打水漂一樣,再丟進去就沒了啦!"},{"start":102.99,"end":124.773,"text":" bicyn 這是我們需要的,不是打水漂。人民的健康如果健康,當然這個國力會強啊。怎麼會打水漂?你這個打水漂,我絕對不同意你這樣的形容詞。 bicyn 你如果其他問題沒有解決的話,那健保還是有問題。 bicyn 這個就是我們必須去討論嘛。但是不能說把錢拿進來給這個點子叫做打水漂,這一點絕對不同意。"},{"start":125.874,"end":149.475,"text":"只處理電池的問題的話是沒有辦法解決台灣現在健康的問題你也是有作為的所以第一個就是我們發覺到疫情前跟疫情後我要謝謝你把疫情後大家增加的這些你用安全基金來撥補給我們所有的醫療體系這樣子就是真正的在協助我們的醫療體系"},{"start":150.896,"end":179.292,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":179.452,"end":183.614,"text":" bicyn 您是有作為。我跟你討論的也就點值。我要確認一件事情。點值來加為至少是0.5以上。您應該是同意這樣子的方式嗎?就是我們今天要修的62條的這個條例啊。"},{"start":210.87,"end":214.011,"text":" bicyn 要有配套的措施"},{"start":229.236,"end":255.121,"text":"好 這個很好 那就是這個配套就是說如果多出來比總額多出來的就由中央政府去這個這個編列編列進來那就變成我們有給你配套我們有給你配套這個就是總額就就就沒有了怎麼總額就沒有還是限縮在那裡嘛所以我好沒關係這個我們來討論就一個原則第一個點值一點在0.95以上本身提案是一塊"},{"start":256.281,"end":266.153,"text":"厲典絕五以上,這個方向大家是共同的,那配套?那配套錢怎麼來?好,就是中央政府要來撥補資嗎?怎麼沒有?你哩?哩典絕五怎麼會沒有?要撥稿來撥?就跟你安全基金一樣來補一樣啦,對不對?你固定電池,你後來是量沒辦法控制。"},{"start":276.084,"end":296.2,"text":"我跟你講,我們目前採取德國的方式,用總額來簽。德國的是超過總額的部分的話,他是打折支付,要怎麼樣打折。每一個國情不一樣,我本身告訴你的是,你目前這個總額是由陳時中部長從德國的制度拿過來的啦,對不對?"},{"start":296.94,"end":300.123,"text":"所以沒關係我們每一個時間的樣態不一樣所以你就否決了陳時中了每一個樣態不一樣的時候我們就要去討論的確我們需要這樣子的一個協調我也希望調整我也希望你待會我們在討論的時候能夠支持那還有一點我要拜託你一下也就是說我們的這個老年人口跟醫療的需求"},{"start":323.524,"end":344.053,"text":"�"},{"start":344.053,"end":370.538,"text":"​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"},{"start":372.389,"end":397.026,"text":"但是我們的需求增加!你不用跟我咬文絕字啦!因為我們知道健保給付的不足會導致護理人員他沒有辦法去調薪嘛!加班費等啊!所以你如果只有專案的給他補一下那個只有治療所以我還是回來根源我還是回來根源三班的護病筆你要什麼時候可以去入法"},{"start":397.706,"end":411.529,"text":"現在就已經是有,至於入法的部分的話就是說,如果沒有達到的必須要做處罰,因為小機構要有一個時間去把人找到啊。所以你有說了一句名言我蠻認同,你說要小飯休,那小飯休要飯休什麼?"},{"start":418.951,"end":420.492,"text":"二、國民黨黨團擬具:「全民健康保險法第六十二條條文修正草案案。」案"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}