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要再怎麼樣簡化"},{"start":139.662,"end":145.094,"text":"當然這個部分可以再來再做一個討論但很顯然問題不在這個地方"},{"start":146.718,"end":149.239,"text":"一般民眾來講的話我們一直在講說要疏減這個送援可是送援我們今天談的其實幾個不管是從簡化偵查或者審判或者這個程序的一個簡化還有書類的一個製作跟人力的增補這個其實都在講四個字訴訟經濟但你這個訴訟經濟要有一個前提"},{"start":172.673,"end":199.291,"text":"你要達到這個訴訟的一個經濟就是說我不要投入那麼多人力、那麼多財力、那麼多物力進去但是要有一個公平審判的一個前提在公平審判的一個前提在所以以這一些你說人力上的一個增補立法院只要你們說得出道理立法院其實都會給你們支持但重點是會到最後是人民的期待"},{"start":200.256,"end":214.946,"text":"你說你今天要五千多個你今天要增加一萬個你說我們整個司法的一個信賴度我們這個法院對民眾讓民眾的一個信賴可以做一個提升的話立法院一萬個都敢給你啊但是你要把那個配置需求它的必要性要講得清楚啊這個部分要講得清楚啊所以我一直會認為啊"},{"start":225.379,"end":251.54,"text":"法院其實我們今天這樣子公聽裡面我們聽到了法官聽到了檢察官這些心聲我們真的是聽到了可是呢這個只是精英的心聲啊精英的心聲啊民眾的想法未必會跟我們今天列席的所有的專家的看法是一致民眾的想法會認為說這個法院的存在不是為了檢察官跟法官的存在"},{"start":252.06,"end":262.209,"text":"是基於為人民而存在那當然我們給法官、檢察官必要的武器不能讓他們變成是過勞一樣 這也不對那這個訴訟制度怎麼來設計跟各位報告不是立法院的權責立法院設計不出來的今天來看看參與的才幾位"},{"start":278.342,"end":287.351,"text":"你真的以為立法院是這麼專業啊哪怕吳宗憲幹過檢察官我幹過那麼久的律師我們進到政治來我們變得不專業啦我們口水變多啦"},{"start":288.345,"end":295.088,"text":"但是呢 那個初衷啊各位 協助讓這個司法怎麼樣更讓人民來信賴這個就變成 又變成我們的責任啊我們也有義務啊可是我們會表達支持啊可是我也必須要提出來我從過去喔 在學校裡面念書啊老師哪一個人不是教我們要怎麼樣建立一個富有人性而溫暖的訴訟制度那講到現在呢"},{"start":314.69,"end":334.788,"text":"民眾還是沒有辦法來接受說我們現在整個法院實務所做出來的這些判決合不合理我認為民眾的想法也很合理訴訟就會有對照吳宗憲假設你今天審一個案子我跟幾位學者專家我們互相併為對照你贏了我會覺得吳宗憲亂判"},{"start":340.1,"end":343.203,"text":"你搞不好也覺得雖然你贏了你覺得吳宗憲也是亂判的啊你要求100萬那判你80萬而已啊這個案子判下來吳宗憲你也不滿意啊我說你們兩個胡說八道根本依照判決下來全部大家都不滿意啊"},{"start":354.375,"end":370.209,"text":"這個台灣社會目前是這樣子啊所以我們只能盡量去尋求共識啊訴訟制度沒有完美的啦哪有完美的你說日本人口比我們多那麼多以檢察官的配置來看的話我們的檢察官的人數不比人家少啊"},{"start":371.226,"end":384.834,"text":"可是我們的做出來的我們檢察官我絕對認為百分之九十幾的檢察官都是非常優秀的可是常常你有一個案件到最後媒體把你去做一個渲染以後我也常常看到一些很不入流的啊我們平常心得講是這樣子啊那何況老百姓透過媒體這樣的一個披露以後會覺得說你們檢察官法官在幹什麼會啊 也會這樣子啊所以本席倒會認為說訴訟經濟"},{"start":399.793,"end":418.056,"text":"有必要 書類的精簡 人力的一個做一個補充否則那個正義很難貴欸 正義真的很難貴啊檢察官也累 法官也累 民眾到最後都累 大家全部都輸那輸掉的是一個大家民眾對司法的一個信賴啊所以民間裡面大家 我們很清楚"},{"start":418.737,"end":434.989,"text":"我們很清楚 就是說檢察官累 法官累你說法案都塞車 不是法案塞車所以大部分都是案件塞車啊塞到最後大家認為說如果真正我們在開車的話塞車大家想的就是大眾捷運系統 公共運輸可是法案在法院裡面塞車怎麼辦就只有增加人力這一圖嗎"},{"start":440.049,"end":458.206,"text":"要再想一想 增加人力是最簡單的 立法院絕對可以支持但是我們也會去做比較 別的國家到底是怎麼樣就比較得出來的嘛 所以立法院可以支持這個部分對給我們檢察官給法官有更好的一個武器"},{"start":458.746,"end":478.196,"text":"不要讓他們這樣子的一個過勞或者說去減輕他們的工作量這個都必須要司法院或者法務部都有責任這樣去做立法院也會來做一個支持但我也必須要提出來就是說人民期待到最後他要得到他的正義他覺得他權力受損"},{"start":479.448,"end":484.411,"text":"他當然到處問 我也不懂啊我只能找法院啊 不然我去找誰我去找政黨嗎 我去找行政部門嗎就是全部都沒辦法幫助他了 他求助無門了他認為說還有一個法院在他走到法院去啦法院這邊跟他講說 你來喔 我好累喔我們又不能這樣去講所以整個訴訟制度的存在我倒覺得必須要記住一點還是為人民而存在"},{"start":507.791,"end":515.159,"text":"不然要這個法院幹什麼?我們要這個司法來幹什麼?所以我本席今天聽了這麼多以後,語重心長的原因就是說因為聽太久了,司法國事會議也開了,哪一黨執政都一樣啊"},{"start":524.068,"end":524.328,"text":"本席今天特別來要表達"},{"start":548.102,"end":575.594,"text":"對今天這個整個公聽會的一個支持對我們整個司法界的一個支持人力的部分我們絕對沒有問題但是整個訴訟制度的一個設計啊要達到共識啊 太困難了啦必須要很清楚啦我只看你們那些民宿訴訟只看你們那些小兒訴訟然後程序選擇權講了一大堆你看這個走了幾十年前陣子大家在講說是不是這個整個要臺灣要比較走向當事人進行主義"},{"start":577.025,"end":581.487,"text":"只要我們老舊這樣一直實踐下去到現在大家也不滿意啊大家也不滿意啊律師界也太多人要認為說制度的變革那是不夠大的可是我們這邊光以目前現行的實務制度我們就有這麼多沒辦法解決的地方所以今天來聆聽各位的高見也表達我自己一點的一個心聲絕對支持但是問題是我還是要確認就是說到最後不管立法院怎麼支持"},{"start":604.055,"end":612.742,"text":"這個整套制度真的還是要是歸於要整個司法還是要最後人民的一個信賴大家一起來努力 謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}