{"error":false,"id":["152138"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152138,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152138","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T13:45:12+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T13:54:09+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db116dae4f8c6bff428e5dad6307223f0f85c150fdf38e5cae6456854e6ed04a8475ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"13:45:12 - 13:54:09","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：\n一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案。\n二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案。\n三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案14案。\n四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n七、有關數位發展部主管預算凍結書面報告案7案。\n八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n九、有關內政部主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n十一、有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案。）","gazette":{"lineno":1194,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（13時45分）謝謝主席，請交通部陳次長。"],["主席：有請陳次。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：次長好。我今天上午也聽了很多委員都在詢問有關於前瞻預算地下停車場的經費問題，爭取蓋地下停車場不是只有新北市或是三重，我相信全臺灣的立委都希望能爭取。但是我也有問過公路局，公路局說前瞻停車場計畫是8年，到明年，我們的計畫本來是200億，後來追加60億到260億，但是260億已經用完了，是不是？"],["陳次長彥伯：260億我們都分配完了。"],["李委員坤城：這表示大家有這個需求，計畫是到明年，可是2月就沒有錢了，接下來我們也報了很多計畫上去，三重也報了包含開元公園、六張公園、大同公園等等的計畫，計畫是到明年才結束，難道沒有錢就不做了嗎？還是繼續再爭取預算繼續做？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，前瞻預算之所以把停車場納進去就是認為停車的需求，對解決都市交通問題很有幫助。"],["李委員坤城：對，我們都支持。"],["陳次長彥伯：所以才從200億增加到260億。"],["李委員坤城：預算用完了怎麼辦？"],["陳次長彥伯：預算用完以後，我們當然也瞭解各地方政府或是委員們都有不同的提案，這部分交通部會去研議看看後續如何……"],["李委員坤城：我早上就聽你講研議看看，研議之後再追加預算，把它補進去，還是怎麼樣？"],["陳次長彥伯：畢竟這個是前瞻計畫，計畫結束預算當然結束，後續是……"],["李委員坤城：計畫是到明年啊！"],["陳次長彥伯：明年結束以後……"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是明年才結束，預算現在就沒有了，所以呢？"],["陳次長彥伯：目前來講，我們會先從既有的計畫裡頭看相關的經費，因為各子項計畫的執行情形進度不一，看是不是可以有一些滾動上的檢討。"],["李委員坤城：能不能再爭取預算來蓋地下停車場，我相信這是很多立法委員的需求。"],["陳次長彥伯：我剛剛就講相關的預算是不是還可以爭取，這部分我們會去研議看看。"],["李委員坤城：不是！研議是要怎麼做？我早上就聽到你跟很多立委說研議看看，好，研議是要怎麼研議呢？要去哪裡找錢？"],["陳次長彥伯：研議很重要就是找錢，要從哪裡找、怎麼找就是研議之所在。"],["李委員坤城：你跟我繞了一圈了！"],["陳次長彥伯：我很具體跟你講就是要去研議，要去想辦法找到錢。"],["李委員坤城：不是，我的意思是你不要糊弄我啊！"],["陳次長彥伯：沒有，跟委員沒有糊弄。"],["李委員坤城：停車場要不要繼續做？"],["陳次長彥伯：原則上，各地方政府做停車場，我們都很樂見。"],["李委員坤城：當然，像新北市政府就有停管基金，如果沒有中央前瞻預算撥下去的話，沒有辦法做到那麼多。"],["陳次長彥伯：所以有些地方如果停管基金可以支應的話，它有急迫性可以先去做，這沒有問題。"],["李委員坤城：那我就不用來問你了！這是地方政府要做的，現在預算不夠，是不是要再繼續找預算來做停車場，是不是這個方向？"],["陳次長彥伯：就是我剛才講的，我們朝這個方向來努力。"],["李委員坤城：跟新的院長再爭取這個預算，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：我們會在交通部相關的內部會議去討論，必要時我們會跟新的院長……"],["李委員坤城：有必要啊！我看今天這麼多委員都有問到地下停車場，就是有這個需求，只是我早上聽到你說研議，早上也是研議，下午也是研議，也沒有新的東西出來。"],["陳次長彥伯：不好意思！委員，還是要研議，謝謝。"],["李委員坤城：好，去找錢出來繼續再做，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：是，原則上以負責任態度去研議，謝謝。"],["李委員坤城：不要等一下其他立委問到的時候又講研議。請農業部杜次長。"],["主席：請杜次長。"],["李委員坤城：次長，我們在去年4月就提出動保法修正案，已經過了一年，去年4月到現在，預告動保法修正案要預告一年這麼久，到現在還提不出來嗎？"],["杜次長文珍：謝謝委員關心，其實動物保護真的是大家都很期待的。"],["李委員坤城：去年大家都希望動保法要修法，你們也馬上開了很多的會議來討論，農委會也升格為農業部，還多了動物保護司，現在動保法最新的修法進度，這個會期會不會提出來？"],["杜次長文珍：原則上，還是會提出來，但是不會是整個像我們當初預告的，因為這當中有很多利害關係人跟我們提出，有些部分還要再研議，所以我們會……"],["李委員坤城：又是研議？"],["杜次長文珍：我們會分成兩塊，有共識的先走，需要再檢討就再檢討，因為還是要往前走。"],["李委員坤城：我的意思是這個會期能不能提出來，因為你們本來是大修，現在會不會再提出來？"],["杜次長文珍：還是會提出來，但是……"],["李委員坤城：預計什麼時候會提出來？"],["杜次長文珍：有共識的部分會先提。"],["李委員坤城：這個會期會不會提出來？"],["杜次長文珍：我們希望可以，因為這個事情對我們很重要。"],["李委員坤城：已經拖了一年了。"],["杜次長文珍：因為這當中也有很多利害關係人，其實我們都一直在談。"],["李委員坤城：我知道，我的意思是還是要往前走，這已經拖了一年的時間，我希望這個會期能夠提出來，好不好？"],["杜次長文珍：好，我們有共識的部分就先提出來。"],["李委員坤城：好，有共識的地方至少先提出來，先往前走一步嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：是，謝謝委員提醒。"],["李委員坤城：好，不然我想說已經拖那麼久都沒有提出來，就奇怪……"],["杜次長文珍：也謝謝委員支持。"],["李委員坤城：不要認為說動保人士沒有在關心喔！"],["杜次長文珍：沒有，謝謝，這個很重要，對我們來講也很重要。"],["李委員坤城：對啊！有這個大遊行，要修動保法，然後你們就重視，那現在一年過了，我看你們都沒有動靜。"],["杜次長文珍：不會啦！我們一直很重視，因為動物的福利本來就是只有我們要來照顧的。"],["李委員坤城：是啊！這個會期把它提出來，好不好？"],["杜次長文珍：好的。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝。","主席，我們再請內政部花次。"],["主席：有請花次。"],["李委員坤城：花次，坐得比較遠，拜託給我30秒就好了。"],["主席：速度快、速度快。"],["李委員坤城：請教一下，三重有一個銀新未來城，我想請問一下次長，銀新未來城現在到底是卡在哪裡？是卡在新北市政府提出的計畫，你們不滿意，比如他要做長照中心，你們不滿意，希望做社宅，還是他們所提出來長照的公益性不足？可不可以請次長先說明一下？"],["花次長敬群：報告委員，因為那是碧華國中的舊校址。"],["李委員坤城：對。"],["花次長敬群：所以說它本來就是公用的。"],["李委員坤城：它是學校用地嘛！"],["花次長敬群：所以我們希望它的公益性真的要提升，現在這個計畫裡面，本質上公益性可能還是嚴重不足啦！"],["李委員坤城：那我問你，你們是希望做社會住宅嗎？"],["花次長敬群：沒有。"],["李委員坤城：沒有？"],["花次長敬群：沒有，我們沒有要求要做社會住宅。"],["李委員坤城：所以說銀新未來城這個方向是正確的、是可行的，但是它的公益性還不足？"],["花次長敬群：其實新北市是用新加坡的案例來copy，新加坡是用原有的商業區和住宅區在做，現在是用公共設施用地在做的時候，它裡面的商業機能和內涵還是這麼高，其實可能就不是很恰當。也就是說三重還有很多缺乏的公共用途空間，應該要先考慮補足，可能會比較重要，會比商業開發來得更重要。"],["李委員坤城：因為它是BOT，所以它一定有一些商業的部分在。"],["花次長敬群：其實不一定要BOT啊！"],["李委員坤城：不一定要BOT！"],["花次長敬群：是啊！"],["李委員坤城：經費不足的部分怎麼辦？它就是經費不夠啊！"],["花次長敬群：我覺得這個東西……"],["李委員坤城：地方政府也沒有這麼多經費啊！"],["花次長敬群：其實有不同的補助，衛福部有衛福部的補助，內政部有內政部社宅的補助，其實本來就有……"],["李委員坤城：那你們有跟新北市政府講不一定要BOT的方式來做嗎？"],["花次長敬群：不是，因為他們這樣子的計畫並沒有得到衛福部肯認說它是屬於社福的功能。"],["李委員坤城：所以現在問題是卡在衛福部，還是卡在內政部？"],["花次長敬群：都沒有卡，是卡在新北市政府的計畫不好。"],["李委員坤城：所以你會不會叫他們再重修啊？"],["花次長敬群：當然都跟他們提示過，我也都跟侯市長說過了。"],["主席：請花次私底下再跟李委員說明，好不好？"],["李委員坤城：好，再請人來跟我說明好了，好不好？因為這個案子地方已經閒置了兩、三年了。"],["花次長敬群：是，因為計畫不好，所以還是回去跟市府講比較重要。"],["李委員坤城：沒關係，計畫不好，你跟我講，我去跟他們做檢討，好不好？看是哪個單位，國土管理署嗎？還是……"],["花次長敬群：問題就在新北市，不在國土管理署。"],["李委員坤城：沒有，你跟我講問題在哪裡，我去跟他們講。"],["主席：他私底下會跟你講。"],["李委員坤城：好。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的質詢。","緊接著請陳素月委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","陳亭妃","吳秉叡","賴士葆","萬美玲","洪孟楷","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","王鴻薇","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","陳玉珍","張宏陸","游顥","陳秀寳","鄭正鈐","羅廷瑋","徐富癸","黃秀芳","郭昱晴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","李坤城","陳素月","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","王世堅","黃健豪","王美惠","范雲","張雅琳","林月琴","王正旭","賴瑞隆","吳春城","徐欣瑩","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","葉元之","蘇清泉","盧縣一","陳超明","李柏毅","林岱樺","劉建國","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","牛煦庭","吳琪銘","蔡易餘","賴惠員"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強\n化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告\n案4案；二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案；三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案\n14案；四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 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對不對但是呢我們的計畫呢本來是200億後來追加了60億、260億260億已經用完了是不是"},{"start":39.062,"end":63.854,"text":"261我們都也分配完了就表示大家有這個需求嘛對不對那需求那可是你的計畫是到明年啊那你2月就沒有錢了接下來我們也報了很多計畫上去我自己三重也報了包含這一個有開源公園啊六張公園啊大同公園等等那難道沒有錢了那計畫還是到計畫是到明年才結束那沒有錢就不做了嗎還是說繼續再爭取預算那繼續再做"},{"start":67.227,"end":83.825,"text":"跟委員報告一下有關這個前瞻之所以停車前瞻預算有把停車場納進去就是認為說這樣的一個停車的有需求對對解決都市交通問題很有幫助對我們都支持所以才從200億也增加到260億那預算用完了怎麼辦"},{"start":83.985,"end":85.667,"text":"市長,早上提醒一下,研議說再去追加預算,再把它補進去還是怎麼樣?"},{"start":103.188,"end":117.885,"text":"這個部分因為畢竟這個是前瞻計畫結束了預算當然結束那後續呢是計畫是到明年啊對明年明年結束完以後我意思是說這明年才結束那預算現在就沒有了那所以呢"},{"start":119.606,"end":144.392,"text":"我們目前來講會先從既有的這個計畫裡頭看相關的這個經費大家各因為各指向的計畫大家執行的情形進度不一啦看是不是可以有一些滾動上的一個檢討能不能再爭取預算再來蓋地下停車場我相信是很多立法委員的需求啊我剛才就講說相關的預算是不是還可以這一部分我們會去研議看看"},{"start":145.672,"end":164.242,"text":"那研議是要怎麼做啊?我早上就聽你跟很多立委講說研議,我就想說好那研議是要怎麼研議勒?去哪裡找錢勒?研議很重要就是找錢嘛,那找錢要從哪裡找怎麼找,這就是研議之所在。那你就是跟我繞了一圈了。"},{"start":165.891,"end":189.765,"text":"對,所以我很具體跟你講,就是要去研議,要去想辦法...不是啦,我的意思是說你這樣子,你不要是糊弄我啊,就是...沒有,沒有,我也沒有糊弄,沒有糊弄。那我問你,停車場要不要繼續做?原則上,各地方政府做停車場是我們都很樂見,是。對,那當然啦,地方像我新北市政府就有停款基金嘛,那如果沒有這個中央前瞻預算撥下去的話,沒有辦法做到那麼多啦。"},{"start":191.219,"end":212.702,"text":"所以有些地方如果停管基金可以的話,它有急迫性,它可以先去做,這沒有問題。對,那我就不用來問你了。所以我問你就是說,現在預算不夠了,是不是要再來找預算,來繼續再來做停車場嗎?是不是有這個方向?這樣就是我剛才講的,我們朝這個方向來補充。來,跟新的院長再來爭取這個預算好不好?"},{"start":213.913,"end":235.646,"text":"這個我們會在交通部相關的這個內部會去討論,必要時我們會跟新的院長。有必要啊,我看今天這麼多委員都有問到這個地下停車場啊,有這個需求啊,只是我早上聽到說你在演繹,我想說到底是早上也是演繹,下午也是演繹,那有沒有新的東西出來啊?不好意思,我還是要演繹啦,還是要演繹,是,謝謝。"},{"start":237.423,"end":237.563,"text":"主席"},{"start":256.58,"end":273.105,"text":"市長,我們在去年4月就有提出凍保法的修正案,已經過了一年了,去年4月到現在預告凍保法的修正案,這個預告要預告一年這麼久嗎?到現在還提不出來嗎?"},{"start":274.771,"end":295.216,"text":"謝謝委員關心,因為其實動物保護真的是大家都很期待。這個過去年大家就希望說動物保護要修法,那你們馬上也開了很多的這個會議說這個來討論,然後我們農委會也升個這個農業部了,然後還多了這個動物保護師,那結果,那我現在問你這個動物保護法最新的修法進度,這個會期會不會提出來?"},{"start":296.768,"end":321.049,"text":"應該這樣還是會提出來,但是不會是整個像我們當初預告的,因為當中有很多利害關係人跟我們說有些部分還要再研議,所以我們會分成兩塊,有公式的先走,那需要再檢討就再檢討,因為還是要往前走。是啊,那我的意思是說這個會期能不能提出來,因為你們是大休嘛,你們本來是大休嘛,那現在會不會再提出來?還是會提出來,但是就有公式。預計哪時候會提出來?"},{"start":321.99,"end":341.097,"text":"有共識的部分會先提對,那我說這個會期會不會提出來啦我們希望可以因為這個事情真的因為已經拖了一年了欸有,那這當中其實也很多利害關鍵其實我們都一直在談這我知道啦,我的意思是說齁這個還是要往前走嘛這已經拖了一年的時間那我希望這個會期能夠提出來好不好"},{"start":341.357,"end":341.817,"text":"主席內政部"},{"start":373.38,"end":394.259,"text":"請花斥花斥這做得比較久,給我30秒就好了,你做得比較遠。請教一下,在這個三重有一個迎新未來城,那這個迎新未來城,我想請問一下次長,那到底是說現在是卡在哪裡?是卡在這個新北市政府提出的計畫你們不滿意,比如他要當這個做長照,"},{"start":396.121,"end":398.663,"text":"中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會福利及全民共享經濟成果特別預算。"},{"start":423.962,"end":427.466,"text":"新北市是用新加坡的案例在copy新加坡是用原有的商業區和住宅區在做"},{"start":440.4,"end":467.889,"text":"那現在是用公共設施用地在做的時候,它裡面的商業機能和內涵還是這麼高,其實可能就不是很恰當。也就是說,三重還有很多缺乏的公共用途的空間,應該要先考慮補足,可能會比較重要,會比商業開發來得更重要。因為它當然有它,因為它是BOT,所以它一定有一些商業的部分。其實不一定要BOT啊。不一定要BOT。是啊。那經費不足的部分怎麼辦?它就是經費不夠啊。"},{"start":469.469,"end":496.935,"text":"地方政府也沒有這麼多經費啊?其實有不同的補助,衛福部有衛福部的補助,內政部有內政部涉財的補助,其實本來就…那你們有跟新北市政府講說不一定要BOT的方式來做嗎?不是,我們…因為他們這樣子的一個計畫並沒有得到衛福部肯認說它是屬於社福的…好,那所以現在問題是卡在衛福部還是卡在內政部?都沒有卡,是卡在新北市政府的計畫不好。計畫不好?那所以他們,你會叫他們再重修啊?"},{"start":497.563,"end":519.277,"text":"當然都跟他們提示過,我也跟侯市長都跟他說過了。請華氏私底下再跟李委員說。那你再請人家來跟我說明好了,好不好?因為這個案子,地方已經閒置2、3年了啦。是,因為計畫不好啦,所以說請還是回去跟市府講一下。計畫不好你跟我講,我回去跟他們做檢討好不好?請這個看是哪個單位?國土管理署嗎?還是?"},{"start":523.26,"end":523.781,"text":"請接受陳樹葉委員質詢。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}