{"error":false,"id":["152142"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152142,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152142","日期":"2024-05-02","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-02T14:18:14+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-02T14:26:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:04","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/6f015fe8e6787db1f464d9ea2398486de5dad6307223f0f85c150fdf38e5cae62615cb29b12c03265ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"14:18:14 - 14:26:18","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：\n一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案。\n二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案。\n三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案14案。\n四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n七、有關數位發展部主管預算凍結書面報告案7案。\n八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n九、有關內政部主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n十一、有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案。）","gazette":{"lineno":1454,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（14時18分）謝謝召集人，我請交通部次長、衛福部、內政部。"],["主席：有請林次、衛福部李次、內政部花次。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：三位次長。我多次在財政委員會質詢，我要求財政部長應該針對我們國家有一項更重大的，就是要引導壽險業資金來投入我們的公共建設。這二十幾年下來，其實壽險業資金投入公共建設的金額都不大，至少四、五年前，一年還可以有500億啦！109年、110年、111年逐年下滑，500億滑下來到355、443、112億，到了112年可以說是雪崩式的下滑，只剩下這112億，但是這在整個壽險業可以動用的資金占了多少？大概占百分之零點零三、萬分之三而已，萬分之三的壽險業資金，可用的資金只花了萬分之三到我們國家的公共建設來幫忙做這一部分的投資，杯水車薪、少之又少。我就去查了一下原因，原來我們各單位、各部會其實也不怎麼當一回事，各部會有掌管公共建設需求的，也從來不會找財政部幫忙說我們有這一條政策，我們國內有來自於我們全體國民的保險、壽險的資金可用，好了！一方面壽險業也樂得去找更多、更高收益的地方，像國外都去了啦！他們去了國外，連俄國都去了，因為他們說那邊利率高，也不怕那邊在戰爭有戰爭的風險，因為他們是哪邊有利益就往哪邊去，把我們國家公共建設擺一邊。","這裡面，交通部、內政部、衛福部，你們公共建設不少耶！交通部我比較沒話講，交通部確實有做這一部分的努力，交通部好歹這三年來發行了7種的乙類公債，這些是請財政部幫忙的，做了這一些不錯的，包括在民航、國道、鐵道這些部分的投資，如國道建設計畫、桃園航空城建設計畫等等，至少交通部還做了這些啦！所以我今天找內政部、衛福部的兩位次長上來，就是要問你們做了哪一些，幾乎沒做，怠惰！不當一回事！"],["花次長敬群：報告委員，我們明天下午就要開會了。"],["王委員世堅：你先等一下，我還沒要你發言。"],["花次長敬群：我以為我要先說一下。"],["王委員世堅：是誰決定發言權？交通部，請你站上來，我要誇你，你站好我才能誇你嘛，不是嗎？交通部，我要誇獎你，不錯！在這麼多部會裡面，你們不會因為要用錢就大筆一揮，反正有2兆8,000億嘛！像坐在金山、銀山上面，筆一揮就有錢，但你們沒有這麼做，你們確實很積極地找了財政部幫你們發了這些乙類公債，這很好、這非常好！而我要問你的是，再來你們還有沒有繼續？比方臺北市、臺中市，甚至高雄市，我們有那麼多的捷運計畫要興建，現在不只臺北，連臺中、高雄都欠缺這一部分的捷運預算補助，交通部補助的，有四成、五成、六成不等，但是不是你們協助各縣市的捷運來代發這些捷運基金，因為捷運有自償性嘛，不是嗎？它做好了以後，乘客買票來搭乘，它就有這一些收益，你們可不可以做到？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告一下，你剛才提到的很多建設其實都有它的財務計畫，財務計畫裡頭會提到相關的經費如何籌措。至於委員特別提到是不是可以協助地方政府採取類似像我們交通部的這些，不管是發行公債也好，或者是透過保險基金來協助也好，這部分我想我們可以找他們來談一下。"],["王委員世堅：你們要做，你們要是發行了這些公債，壽險就沒有藉口可以講，你們有這些，它要來投資、它要來買啊，不是嗎？好不好？針對你們前幾次成功的這幾項，我誇獎你們，請你們繼續以這幾個建設公債當例子，你們就可以趕快大舉地來做，包括捷運的部分。","至於內政部，你們那麼多社宅，社宅也是自償性的公共建設，不是嗎？你們那麼多的社宅……因為我沒時間了，衛福部我就一起說，衛福部，你們也都沒做，你們那麼多的長照、那麼多的醫療院所，我看你們最近在興建臺北醫院的急重症大樓，也包括臺中榮總的第三醫學大樓；而長照部分，有豐原醫院的后里長照機構、胸腔病院的新市長照機構。這些這麼多，我沒看到衛福部、內政部有做這一方面的努力，不要讓壽險資金閒置啦！空檔啦！還可以跑到戰爭的國家去投資，這不是很奇怪嗎？應該各部會合作努力，把我們的公共建設，尤其有自償性的，委請財政部來幫忙，把壽險資金導入國家的公共建設，兩位次長可不可以做到？"],["花次長敬群：明天下午我們就跟金管會、財政部開會，就要來準備發行公債。"],["王委員世堅：很好，明天下午？"],["花次長敬群：是。"],["王委員世堅：好，很積極、很積極，謝謝3位次長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝王世堅委員的質詢。","接著請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":122,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","陳亭妃","吳秉叡","賴士葆","萬美玲","洪孟楷","吳沛憶","葛如鈞","王鴻薇","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","陳菁徽","陳培瑜","陳昭姿","陳玉珍","張宏陸","游顥","陳秀寳","鄭正鈐","羅廷瑋","徐富癸","黃秀芳","郭昱晴","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李昆澤","李坤城","陳素月","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","王世堅","黃健豪","王美惠","范雲","張雅琳","林月琴","王正旭","賴瑞隆","吳春城","徐欣瑩","鍾佳濱","邱志偉","顏寬恒","謝衣鳯","葉元之","蘇清泉","盧縣一","陳超明","李柏毅","林岱樺","劉建國","邱議瑩","張嘉郡","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","王育敏","牛煦庭","吳琪銘","蔡易餘","賴惠員"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-02"],"gazette_id":"1133901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第 4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強\n化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告\n案4案；二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案；三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案\n14案；四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 3案；五、有關衛生福利部主管預算\n凍結書面報告案11案；六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案；七、有關數位發展部主管\n預算凍結書面報告案7案；八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案；九、有關內政部主\n管預算凍結書面報告案3案；十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案；十一、有關國\n家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案","agenda_id":"1133901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.0934687499999995,"end":5.177843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":5.4478437500000005,"end":7.101593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.371593750000001,"end":8.09721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.654093750000001,"end":10.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.286593750000002,"end":12.180968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.45534375,"end":12.14721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.754718750000002,"end":13.952843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.167843750000003,"end":15.505343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.505343750000002,"end":15.809093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.011593750000003,"end":16.88909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.555343750000002,"end":20.16284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.17096875,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":23.58846875,"end":23.622218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.976593750000003,"end":24.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.02721875,"end":24.28034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.300968750000003,"end":29.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.38909375,"end":31.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.620968750000003,"end":32.49846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.52784375,"end":37.02096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":37.392218750000005,"end":40.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.10471875,"end":42.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.893468750000004,"end":44.83409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.01534375,"end":46.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.12909375,"end":47.837843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":48.29346875,"end":51.111593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.65159375,"end":54.368468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.62159375,"end":56.595968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.07659375,"end":59.734718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.852843750000005,"end":60.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.40534375,"end":62.46846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.94096875,"end":66.11346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.60284375,"end":77.75721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.51221875,"end":86.75159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.98346875,"end":91.03784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.39221875000001,"end":92.11784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.56909375000001,"end":96.23534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":96.77534375,"end":103.40721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":104.60534375,"end":106.64721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.37284375,"end":108.16596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.23346875,"end":109.33034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.17409375000001,"end":118.66221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.86034375000001,"end":122.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":122.84721875000001,"end":124.92284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.80034375000001,"end":132.19596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.25909375,"end":137.95034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.43971875,"end":139.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.22846875000002,"end":143.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.07596875000002,"end":145.71284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.76346875000002,"end":146.91096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.24846875,"end":150.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.45034375,"end":152.20971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":152.76659375,"end":153.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":155.31471875,"end":155.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.36096875,"end":157.05284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.08659375000002,"end":157.91346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.17909375000002,"end":159.58409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.46159375000002,"end":161.22096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.60909375,"end":165.06846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.27096875,"end":166.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.70534375,"end":168.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":169.20284375,"end":171.02534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":171.97034375,"end":175.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":176.15534375000001,"end":181.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.80409375000002,"end":185.41971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.82471875000002,"end":190.92096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.37659375,"end":192.10221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.50284375,"end":198.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.97034375,"end":202.73346875000001},{"speak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},{"start":244.327,"end":254.834,"text":"幾乎沒做!怠惰!不當一回事!是誰決定發言權?那個...交通部!我一方面...你站上來我要誇你!吼!真是!你站好我才能誇你嘛!不是嗎?"},{"start":272.677,"end":299.353,"text":"好,政府我要誇獎你,不錯,在這麼多部會裡面,你是不會說啊,我們要用錢喔,那就大筆一揮,反正有兩兆八千億嘛,齁,這個坐在金山銀山上面,筆一揮就有錢,你們沒有這麼做,你們確實很積極的找了財政部幫你們發了這些乙類公債,這很好,這非常好。"},{"start":299.833,"end":326.871,"text":"那我要問你的就是說那再來你們還有沒有繼續比方說我們台北市、我們台中市甚至高雄市我們有那麼多捷運的計畫要興建那現在捷運不只台北台中、高雄都欠缺這一部分捷運他們的預算的補助交通部補助的超過有的4成、5成、6成不等"},{"start":327.711,"end":343.733,"text":"但是是不是你們協助各縣市的捷運來代發這些捷運基金,因為捷運有自償性嘛,不是嗎?他做好了以後,乘客買票來搭乘,他就有這些收益,你們可不可以做到?"},{"start":345.8,"end":370.188,"text":"跟委員報告一下,因為這個剛才提到的很多的建設,其實它都有它的財務計畫,它財務計畫裡頭會去講到相關的經費如何籌措,那委員特別提到是不是可以協助地方政府採取類似像我們這裡頭交通部的這些發行,不管是公債也好,或者是透過保險基金來協助也好,這個我想我們可以找他們來談一下。"},{"start":370.728,"end":379.352,"text":"沒有做,你要發行的這些公債受險就沒有藉口可以講,你有這些他要來投資他要來買呀,不是嗎?好不好,你們前幾次成功的這幾項,我誇獎你們,那你們繼續以這幾個建設公債當例子,那你就可以趕快大舉的來做,包括捷運的部分,然後那個內政部給你啦,"},{"start":395.41,"end":409.417,"text":"你那麼多社宅、內政部社宅也是自償性的公共建設不是嗎?你那麼多的社宅那個衛福部我沒時間了衛福部我一起說衛福部你們也都沒做你們那麼多長照"},{"start":410.558,"end":426.896,"text":"那麼多醫療院所,我看你們最近在台北醫院急重症的大樓,包括你們台中榮董的第三醫學大樓,長照的我們有豐原醫院後里的長照機構,有胸腔病院新式的長照機構,這些這麼多,"},{"start":429.739,"end":444.026,"text":"我沒看到衛福部、看到內政部做這一方面的努力,不要讓受險資金、閒置啦、空檔啦還可以跑到戰爭的國家去投資,這不是很奇怪嗎?"},{"start":445.166,"end":461.036,"text":"我們應該各部會合作努力把我們的公共建設尤其有自償性的委請財政部來幫忙把授權資金導入我們國家的公共建設兩位次長可不可以做到"},{"start":462.315,"end":462.635,"text":"黃建豪委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}