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15:22:24","會議時間":"2024-05-02T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查或處理「中央政府前瞻基礎建設計畫第4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：\n一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告案4案。\n二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案。\n三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案14案。\n四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、有關衛生福利部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n七、有關數位發展部主管預算凍結書面報告案7案。\n八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n九、有關內政部主管預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n十一、有關國家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案。）","gazette":{"lineno":1699,"blocks":[["吳委員春城：（15時15分）有請數發部李次長。"],["主席：有請李次長。"],["李次長懷仁：委員好。"],["吳委員春城：次長好。今天要跟你討論數位落差的問題。前瞻預算中有編偏鄉數位落差計畫，明年就要到期。目前執行率只有11.8%，所以我要探討數位落差問題。請問次長，數位落差最嚴重的在哪一個區塊？"],["李次長懷仁：回答委員的問題。您剛剛講的預算是我們針對雲市集，即補助數位轉型，特別是中小企業的部分。"],["吳委員春城：你沒有掌握住問題。在我們的社會當中，數位落差可能有區域性落差，世代間落差，產業間的落差，但是最嚴重的在哪裡？"],["李次長懷仁：我想數位落差最嚴重的在於本身對於數位技巧或數位知識的學習，通常是在長輩或社經地位比較落後一點的地區。"],["吳委員春城：數位落差會造成社會什麼影響？"],["李次長懷仁：不管是使用或資訊的傳遞上都會有數位落差。"],["吳委員春城：數位落差的問題顯然比你想像的嚴重，它會造成對立的社會。整個社會，像很多偏鄉，今天早上我才對教育部質詢，因為偏鄉只注重偏鄉兒童教育，而偏鄉兒童大部分都是由高齡者在照顧，阿公阿嬤在照顧，但我們對這一塊完全不重視！導致小孩子所學的東西大人完全不理解，以致不溝通，而不溝通就會造成世代的疏離，所以牽扯的相關問題非常多。我在推動壯世代計畫，這點數發部知道吧？所謂壯世代是指臺灣進入高齡化社會，所以不要再對老人、銀髮族的世代有歧視，畢竟這個世代是臺灣的希望。但是對於這一塊，數位部非常輕忽，就這點我們來看一下輕忽到什麼程度。根據臺灣網路資訊中心的數據顯示，在我們的世代之間，上網率最高為18歲到29歲，有98%，而70歲以上的只有40%，相差五成，這數據沒問題吧？"],["李次長懷仁：沒有問題。"],["吳委員春城：在區域當中，非偏鄉與偏鄉大概相差兩成。現在重點在於偏鄉，在改善區域落差，是嗎？對於世代之間我們可以看到，整個的數位落差以改善偏鄉為主，而現在所編列的預算跟著力的重點一直在追求改善這個問題，對於剛才講的五成落差，請問數位部做了什麼？"],["李次長懷仁：目前我們在國科會的支持跟領導之下，參與了所謂的銀髮科技，即高齡科技。我們利用高齡科技去強調所謂的Help 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4期特別預算(112至113年度)」及「中央政府疫後強\n化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果特別預算」決議：一、有關教育部主管預算凍結書面報告\n案4案；二、有關經濟部主管預算凍結書面報告案9案；三、有關交通部主管預算凍結書面報告案\n14案；四、有關行政院農業委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案 3案；五、有關衛生福利部主管預算\n凍結書面報告案11案；六、有關文化部主管預算凍結書面報告案1案；七、有關數位發展部主管\n預算凍結書面報告案7案；八、有關原住民族委員會預算凍結書面報告案1案；九、有關內政部主\n管預算凍結書面報告案3案；十、有關行政院環境保護署預算凍結書面報告案1案；十一、有關國\n家科學及技術委員會主管預算凍結書面報告案2案","agenda_id":"1133901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.1234687500000002,"end":4.7897187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.38034375,"end":6.59534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.28159375,"end":17.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.96909375,"end":18.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.12096875,"end":20.48346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.12471875,"end":22.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.06534375,"end":25.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.64721875,"end":26.980343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.26721875,"end":32.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.549093750000004,"end":32.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.15659375,"end":40.17659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.969718750000006,"end":43.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.525968750000004,"end":46.690343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.994093750000005,"end":48.158468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.27659375,"end":51.111593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.111593750000004,"end":51.17909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.174718750000004,"end":58.367843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.367843750000006,"end":58.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.14409375,"end":59.51534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.24096875,"end":76.03596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.79096875,"end":78.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.02721875,"end":85.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.85721875,"end":86.38034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.87409375,"end":86.97096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":86.97096875000001,"end":87.20721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.20721875000001,"end":87.96659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.22409375000001,"end":88.27034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.09721875000001,"end":92.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.40034375,"end":97.85534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.12534375,"end":103.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.25096875000001,"end":123.70784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.31534375000001,"end":125.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.96909375000001,"end":126.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.13346875,"end":130.15409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.57596875000002,"end":132.21284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.78659375,"end":138.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.94159375,"end":161.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.81159375000001,"end":163.22909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.48221875000002,"end":168.44346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.08471875,"end":201.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":188.38971875000001,"end":188.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.09221875,"end":216.50346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.61096875,"end":204.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.45471875,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":217.21221875,"end":218.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.25409375,"end":220.03034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.03034375000001,"end":235.48784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.89721875,"end":236.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":236.28096875000003,"end":240.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.22534375,"end":250.21971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.38846875000002,"end":279.02534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.98596875000004,"end":261.10409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":263.53409375,"end":264.39471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.27221875000004,"end":265.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.37346875000003,"end":266.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.02534375,"end":279.93659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.15596875,"end":288.61034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.66534375000003,"end":288.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.81284375,"end":288.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.98159375,"end":289.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.16721875,"end":289.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.25159375000004,"end":289.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.28534375000004,"end":289.79159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.42034375000003,"end":289.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.89284375,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.97721875,"end":296.10284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":290.39909375,"end":291.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.41159375,"end":293.21721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.4065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helper,就是協助照顧者還有被照顧者。據我所知,包括這個業界當中,就是做得非常少。"},{"start":241.283,"end":258.618,"text":"很表面,做得很淺層,沒有正式這個問題,已經高達五成了。好,這個就是涉及到現在呢,我們前瞻有編列了9.2億的這個縮短偏鄉數位落差目前的執行的狀況只有11.8%"},{"start":261.781,"end":279.01,"text":"那這個錢既然用不出去,為什麼用不出去?那可不可以,剛才那個問題那麼嚴重,那邊變了多少預算?是不是你們想要做事情,是不是落差非常的大?可不可以以這個經費,可以來加強到年齡的數位落差?"},{"start":280.231,"end":295.63,"text":"跟委員報告,這個部分是前瞻預算,那前瞻預算當初是有法源規定,我們就是拿來,當初法源規定就是用在偏鄉,用區域,對,但是區域裡面,現在我覺得我們腦筋都很硬,沒關係,現在為什麼你的錢花不出去?"},{"start":296.891,"end":311.04,"text":"因為剛才他偏鄉落差只有兩成嘛,那個可能你們探討需求沒有那麼大,而且按照我們的這個通訊的電信業者當中,你跟他疊藏家屋咧,他們裡面有這個基金也是在做偏鄉。"},{"start":312.361,"end":314.303,"text":"歐美各國歐盟當中在做電信普及是以人為對象而我們是以區域為對象"},{"start":335.618,"end":350.905,"text":"我們的區域是以人來計算的。是以人來計算。我講不是人口,不是說人,是使用者。使用者剛才講年齡層,當中的高齡層,包括連台北市一樣啊,高齡層的數位落差。"},{"start":352.305,"end":372.714,"text":"這個我們可能用其他的經費來處理。那不管怎麼樣,你拿你的錢來,我不管。但是,是不是可以請數位部在前瞻計畫當中對於數位落差的經費的檢討,同時也嚴義納入年齡數位落差來改善計畫,這一點可不可以?"},{"start":374.656,"end":376.777,"text":"謝謝吳淳騰委員的諮詢。緊接著我們請王穎明委員,王穎明委員不在。緊接著請徐欣穎委員諮詢。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}