{"error":false,"id":["152260"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152260,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152260","日期":"2024-05-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-08T09:31:09+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-08T09:41:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9fa9bc2102b9cf711da389eb06e522b7f2e1d4ff16295ce236499d1b681a2ac7ce221ba616d86ab85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"09:31:09 - 09:41:46","會議時間":"2024-05-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算有關農業部及所屬主管預算凍結案等3案。（如未接獲議事處來函則不予審查）\n二、審查本院委員陳冠廷等30人擬具「農產品市場交易法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":573,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（9時31分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員早。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長早。首先恭喜你繼續榮任，我們一起為農業部農政來加油，讓我們農民有更好的生活。","我們繼續討論的是蛋，上一次本席跟我們經濟委員會，啓楷委員也到現場，還有蘇清泉委員，我們一起到現場去看，大家、社會大眾都非常的希望能夠瞭解，在我們這一次的進口蛋，然後又銷毀，你總結的答案，這次的進口蛋跟銷毀，請說明到底我們花了人民多少的納稅錢？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想分兩個部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這一個烏龍事件，請說明。"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，我想第一個還是要先說明一下，當初進口蛋有它的政策目的，也達到了政策，但是在執行的過程中，的確……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有那個政策目的達到，然後在整個過程當中，是還要我們拿納稅人的錢去銷毀那些有問題的進口蛋，你把我們人民當傻子啊！這是我們辛辛苦苦的納稅錢耶！還要讓我們排隊去買雞蛋，請再說明，你告訴我總額。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想整個的總額……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：補助總共多少錢？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們整個補助在今年度是8.2億左右，然後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：8.2億左右，總共進口了多少顆蛋？"],["陳代理部長駿季：一億五千八百多萬顆。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那請教銷毀了多少？"],["陳代理部長駿季：5,580萬顆。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：5,580萬顆銷毀，為什麼？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想當初我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：都在缺啊！都在缺啊！為什麼還進那個有問題的蛋呢？好，銷毀了5,580萬顆，請問5,580萬顆你又送到冷鏈系統負20度，我們花多少錢？到銷毀前總共花了多少錢？"],["陳代理部長駿季：過期雞蛋去做堆肥，整個費用是四億七千多萬，那其中……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：四億七千多萬？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，其中三億七千萬左右是蛋款的部分，五千萬左右是倉儲費的部分，然後四千萬左右是相關的這些運輸跟它的處理費用。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：運輸跟處理費用嘛！所以平平白白補助進口的8.2億，光光五千多萬顆的蛋，我們總共又要花多少啊？你剛才講的，總共多少？"],["陳代理部長駿季：四億七千多萬。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：四億七千多萬如果拿給全國的人民，你看我們有多少的福利，我們可以建設多少，拿給我們營養午餐的孩子，我們可以協助他們多少，為什麼會導致這樣子？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明，這些過期雞蛋會累積到這麼多有它特定的原因，就是我們當初在3月多進口的時候，是有估它相關的一些缺口，但是後來因為6月以後到7月開始，進口雞蛋被某個程度的污名化，造成大家的疑慮以後，那相對的業者也不敢買……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這樣子的說法本席不予認同，你的結果論……"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想這個是事實。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，你的結果論，當你要進口多少雞蛋的時候，你在整個產銷的資訊裡頭，你會非常清楚，我們一個月國內需要多少顆雞蛋，對不對？你的產有多少、你的銷有多少，除非本席說的烏龍事件其中有貓膩，你的產銷資訊由農業部委託給養雞協會來做，你如果很清楚你的需求，你現在只歸咎於因為大家對進口蛋有疑慮，所以才導致你這樣的原因，不可以這麼說！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明，這些雞蛋本身我們經過……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要再跟你討論一個結果，也就是我們光光這一個錯誤的政策，補助8.2億我們的納稅錢，我們總共進口了一億五千多萬顆雞蛋，但是有五千五百八十幾萬顆的雞蛋是銷毀的，在這個銷毀當中，我們還要付出4億7慘痛的代價，除了冷鏈五千多萬，你的交通作業也要將近五千多萬，部長，人民情何以堪，這個數字告訴社會大眾，我們上次也說要公布在你們的網站，你們公布了沒有？"],["陳代理部長駿季：公布了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：人民的感受，每一個打到服務處說：「為什麼我們沒有蛋，我們還要付錢去銷毀這些蛋？」政府要不要檢討？政府要不要檢討？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我們已經很深刻地檢討整個的執行過程。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還有人質疑你這個臭蛋為什麼還要去花5,000萬的冷鏈，還要負20度，低溫20度，5,000萬耶！"],["陳代理部長駿季：我跟委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：5,000萬耶！"],["陳代理部長駿季：因為雞蛋如果本身不做凍存的時候，它會發臭，會造成整個環境的污染。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以光光在經濟委員會，我們一直追、一直追，你已經達成錯誤的政策了，錯誤的軌道要怎麼樣把它縮短，對不對？還好最後部長加強監督，把你原本要留到6月底才完成的，到什麼時候完成？"],["陳代理部長駿季：4月19號就完成了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：4月19號對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這其中差了兩個半月，如果我們不推，你這兩個半月又要花我們1億以上的納稅錢，對不對？所以部長，我們要將心比心啦！這些都是人民的納稅錢好不好？","我們討論，你現在雞蛋的產銷是委由協會來做，那你認為到目前為止，你們調查全國1,800處的養雞場的產銷狀況，本席具體建議，你如果只有打電話去問，還是會重蹈覆轍，又是烏龍事件、又是政策錯誤，需求、供給跟時間點timing都不對，讓我們平白浪費了八億多的錢，再加上4億7，總共多少？將近13億的錢。"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有、沒有，不是這樣算，總共是8.2億，今年度8.2億，然後其中裡面過期雞蛋處理的是4億7。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你的總total正確再答復一次，8.2億對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：在今年度是8.2億，然後因為今年還有一點處理費，預估大概10億，就像我上次跟委員說的大概10億左右，其中有4億7是處理過期雞蛋的費用。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：五千五百多萬顆的臭蛋，所以我們一個答案，也就是光光這個政策要浪費人民10億的錢，對不對？你們花出去10億的錢。"],["陳代理部長駿季：不對，不是這樣……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：補助多少錢？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想我們在開始補助，當初……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：補助多少錢？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們整個去年度補助8.2億，那今年度他們畜產會還沒來申請，預估大概一點多億，所以我說大概是10億，但是這10億裡面……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：包括你現在講的4.7億，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對，所有大概10億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以夯不啷噹包括起來就是10億嘛！對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對啊！剛剛本席告訴你10億啊！"],["陳代理部長駿季：那10億不是全部浪費，因為我們本身在3、4月份國內缺蛋的時候，我們的確也用……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以這10億到還沒有算錢的部分，總共你預估大概要費用10億……"],["陳代理部長駿季：就是大概10億。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：包括了補助，包括了五千五百八十幾萬顆的臭蛋，還有一些行政費用還沒有釐清楚、還沒有來申請，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：是"],["楊委員瓊瓔：該當給人家要給人家，但是本席還是說這10億，尤其這4億7是人民非常冤枉的錢，政府要給民眾道歉，4億7的稅金耶！部長你是非常資深的事務官，你也很難過，還好是你追了這兩個半月，我們至少再減1億的錢，不然還要再浪費1億的錢，痛定思痛，本席具體建議針對這1,800處，你們應該要對於入雛數量還有養殖登記，以及屠宰的數量來交叉比對，你的數字才會更正確，同不同意？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我非常同意，我們已經針對……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常同意要趕快去做！"],["陳代理部長駿季：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為我們深怕會再有第二次。"],["陳代理部長駿季：我想雞蛋的這些調查，一定會有更精進的作為。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請你將本席今天的建議納入，然後將你們精進作為的說明資料給本席，好嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：最後一個議題，再給我1分鐘就好，不好意思1分鐘就好。"],["主席：不好意思，委員你已經超過3分鐘。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。現在農業用的塑膠膜，所謂的農膜，請部長解決農民的問題，因為我們種水果這一些都需要用，但是你們也有說推動廢棄農膜回收，對不對？"],["陳代理部長駿季：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：成效怎麼樣？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們現在已經在東石合作農場那邊，建立整個農膜的回收系統，這個回收系統做得還不錯，所以我逐步從這個部分……"],["主席：部長，我們是不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，因為我們的農民非常的希望……"],["主席：楊委員，我請部長私下再跟您回復好不好？因為我們也需要瞭解……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：政府需要有一個SOP流程來協助民眾……"],["陳代理部長駿季：瞭解。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不然現在戴奧辛是世界之毒啊，對不對？所以我要拜託部長，你要研擬出統一的回收機制，不要淪為口號，協助農民好不好？"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["主席：好，謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請將怎麼協助的這一些流程給本席，好吧？謝謝。"],["陳代理部長駿季：好。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。部長，跟農業廢棄物相關的這一些作為，是不是也能夠給經濟委員會的每位委員一份報告，好不好？好，謝謝。","接下來我們請鄭正鈐委員發言。我還是懇請各位委員要掌握一下時間。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":198,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-11","speakers":["邱議瑩","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","楊瓊瓔","鄭正鈐","賴瑞隆","林岱樺","鄭天財Sra 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會我們一直追一直追你已經達成錯誤的政策了錯誤的軌道要怎麼樣把它縮短對不對"},{"start":356.716,"end":374.623,"text":"還好你最後部長你加強監督把你原本要留到6月底才要完成的到什麼時候完成4月19號就完成4月19號對不對這個其中差了兩個半月如果我們不對你這兩個半月又要花我們一以上的納稅錢"},{"start":378.004,"end":406.102,"text":"所以部長我們要將心比心啊這些都是人民的納稅錢好不好我們討論你現在雞蛋的產銷是委由協會來做那你認為到目前為止你們調查全國1800處的養雞場的產銷狀況本席具體建議你如果只有打電話去問你還是會重蹈覆轍又是烏龍事件又是政策錯誤"},{"start":408.604,"end":412.245,"text":"需求跟工區跟時間點time都不對讓我們平白浪費了8億多的錢再加上4億期總共多少"},{"start":420.418,"end":421.158,"text":"五千五百多萬顆"},{"start":447.25,"end":455.75,"text":"的臭蛋所以我們一個答案也就是觀光這個政策要浪費人民十億的錢"},{"start":456.835,"end":458.936,"text":"對不對?你們花出去的10億的錢?補助多少錢?補助多少錢?包括你現在講的4.7億對不對?"},{"start":479.35,"end":485.753,"text":"所以夯不啷噹包括起來就是10億嘛 對不對對啊 剛剛本期告訴你10億啊所以這10億到還沒有算錢的部分總共你預估大概要費用10億包括了補助包括了這個5580幾萬顆的臭蛋還有你一些行政費用還沒有理清楚還沒有來申請"},{"start":510.144,"end":528.154,"text":"該當給人家要給人家但是本席還是說這10億尤其這4億7是人民非常冤枉的錢政府要給民眾道歉4億7的稅金我想部長你是非常資深的事務官你也很難過還好是你追了這兩個半月我們至少再減一億的錢"},{"start":536.721,"end":559.151,"text":"不然我還要再浪費1億的錢痛定思痛本期具體建議你針對於這1800處你們應該要針對於入儲數量還有你養殖登記以及你屠宰的這個數量給他交叉比對你的數字才會更正確同不同意我非常同意我們已經非常同意趕快去做會"},{"start":560.572,"end":560.752,"text":"主席主席主席"},{"start":579.614,"end":597.401,"text":"也就是現在農業用的塑膠膜我們所謂的農膜請部長解決我們農民的問題因為我們種的水果這一些都需要用但是你們也有說推動廢棄農膜回收對不對成效怎麼樣"},{"start":597.961,"end":614.132,"text":"市長,我們現在已經在東石合作農場那邊建立一個整個農謀的回收系統,那這個回收系統做得還不錯,所以我們現在逐步從這個部分...部長,因為這一個我們的農民非常的希望政府需要協助一個SOP流程來協助民眾"},{"start":616.374,"end":637.056,"text":"楊瓊瓔"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}