{"error":false,"id":["152409"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152409,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152409","日期":"2024-05-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-18","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":18,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-13T09:38:54+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-13T09:46:44+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e173427b87d65234897d1076aa6d1d4e027382d94006c6d412c4d2660ba6cc41290bc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"09:38:54 - 09:46:44","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就「搬遷原住民族語言傳播大樓整備事宜暨調動工作地點後員工各項權益是否合乎勞動基準法」進行專題報告，並備質詢。  二、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、客家委員會主任委員、財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長就「營運情形暨如何因應新媒體發展趨勢」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":425,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（9時38分）主席，請副主委。"],["主席：請鍾副主委。"],["王委員美惠：再請勞動部副司長。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：委員早。"],["王委員美惠：早。本席今天要跟你們探討從臺北遷去桃園的事情，其中有兩個地方，一個在南港，一個在我們這裡附近，這兩個要遷去桃園，因為環境的關係，所以明年底就開始準備要遷，但是你們同仁現在原則上是在臺北上班，現在要去桃園上班。你們剛才說有問過、有調查過，大約有多少人要繼續去那裡上班？來回答一下。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：這個部分是不是可以請基金會來說明？"],["王委員美惠：好。"],["主席：我們有請瑪拉歐斯董事長還有馬耀．谷木，謝謝。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：委員早安。"],["王委員美惠：早安。你們開會調查到目前為止，有多少人不想去？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：差不多15%要留在臺北。"],["王委員美惠：15%要留在臺北？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是。"],["王委員美惠：本席再請教你一下，留在臺北哪一個地方？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：我們未來會在臺北租一個辦公空間，就比較緊急的業務做辦理，所以大部分我們會有一個總部的概念在這邊。"],["王委員美惠：這樣也不對，你們的做法怎麼會是這樣？你們已經要把兩個單位移去桃園這個永久的地方，你們調查有15%不要去，然後再租一個辦公室讓他們在這裡上班，這樣怎麼對？這樣是不對的耶！你是不是要說清楚？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：委員是說如果這15%不要去桃園要怎麼處理嗎？"],["王委員美惠：是。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：我們可能就會依勞動基準法去資遣，就會有他的福利……"],["王委員美惠：這樣問題來了……"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：剛剛是說我們辦公的地方這樣啦！"],["王委員美惠：但是你們未來辦公的地方要整個移去永久的地方，那你們就要整個移去，臺北就沒有了，還有一個辦公室要做什麼？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：因為新聞的製作，我們在臺北市會有一個辦公空間，比較方便辦理臺北市的新聞。"],["王委員美惠：不過這樣你們的規劃就不對了，你們媒體一旦要移去那，就要想到臺北跟媒體比較近嘛？所以你們當初要移去桃園的時候，就要思考到這個問題了，為什麼還要兩個都移去桃園那個永久的地方？這是一個問題。針對你們所有的計畫、現在辦公室要做什麼，請在一個禮拜把資料給我。","再來，本席要談資遣費，在這個total之下，我覺得在這85%裡願意去桃園，因為搬遷就是要跟著去桃園這個地方上班，如果他原本很願意去，不過去到桃園之後，他覺得越來越不適合那個環境，他還要坐車還有小孩的問題，種種問題跟租屋的問題，他在臺北住得好好的，不過他為了環境，工作也難找，他去桃園住一、兩個月覺得自己不適合的時候要如何是好？請回答一下。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：報告委員，我們對員工在搬遷到桃園以後會有三個比較重要的部分，一個是租屋的補貼，第二個是……"],["王委員美惠：沒有啦！我知道有租有住有什麼，不過人與人之間有時候……譬如我家在南部，我在中部住不習慣的時候，也會想要回去南部，這個補助都有了，只是他覺得自己沒辦法適應，去住一、兩個月後他認為不適合，這樣他是要資遣還是……","勞動部副司長來回答一下。"],["主席：請副司長。"],["黃副司長琦雅：委員好，剛剛委員詢問如果是搬遷調動，當下他如果沒有辦法過去，因為他……"],["王委員美惠：沒有，他已經願意去了，調動的時候他願意去了，但是他去那邊一個月之後覺得自己不適合，他小孩也不適合，每樣都不適合，他想要回來的時候，你們單位要怎麼處理？"],["黃副司長琦雅：委員說的是有很多搬遷的這種個案，這個就是所謂的猶豫期，目前在法律面上，我們規範基本的是搬遷時候的離職，因為有工會，很多工會會跟雇主談，委員關心的就是要讓員工有一些猶豫期……"],["王委員美惠：對！這是重點，我從剛才問到現在將近4分鐘就是要問這個重點。"],["黃副司長琦雅：委員提的猶豫期，我們很多企業會跟工會談，在搬遷之前會談猶豫期要多久，猶豫期到了的時候，員工還有一個選擇，如果員工要離開，那個選擇是不是優於法令，給予一些補償，這個會在雙方協商的時候議定下來。"],["王委員美惠：好，副主委，剛才他這樣說，你有聽到啦！"],["鍾副主任委員興華：對，有聽到，因為不願意的話，當然非自願離職必須有一些失業給付，但是那個緩衝期……"],["王委員美惠：不是啦！我現在是要跟你說，該給他們的、該讓他們選擇的，有時候他們到那裡之後，發現環境真的不適合，當初沒有這個選擇的時候，是不是有緩衝？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：謝謝委員有先見之明，因為有人搬過去還會猶豫，所以我們會跟基金會討論是不是有一個緩衝期，讓員工有這樣的一個思考。"],["王委員美惠：你們如果要緩衝期的話，本席建議你最起碼要三個月，因為要三個月他才有辦法適應、把小孩安排好，他也安排好、找房子等等，所以最少要給他們三個月的緩衝，我覺得這個要去注意一下，以上。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：謝謝委員，我們把它列入研究參考。"],["主席：非常謝謝美惠委員的質詢。","很遺憾你們今天在這個說明裡面並沒有提到，而是委員質詢了，你們才清楚必須要有三個月的期限，讓他有一個適應期。今天為什麼也請勞動部來？就是針對我們搬遷員工的權益問題，其實你們開了那麼多次會，似乎好像沒有談到重點裡面，而且也沒有告訴我們你們要怎麼解決，好不好？謝謝。","繼續請許宇甄委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":190,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-18","speakers":["高金素梅","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","王美惠","許宇甄","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃建賓","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","黃捷","鄭天財Sra 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請坐15%是說不要去桃園要不要怎麼處理我們可能就會依勞動基準法去支錢"},{"start":165.303,"end":180.008,"text":"去之前：就會有他的福利：來,我們的問題來了 他說我們辦公的所在這樣啦喔,辦公的所在：你們未來辦公的所在,你們整個要去刷去永久下,你們就要整個刷,又代罷沒辦法"},{"start":181.568,"end":183.249,"text":"因為這個新聞的製作在台北市我們會有一個會有一個辦公空間比較方便台北市的新聞的辦理這樣"},{"start":211.768,"end":215.372,"text":"所以我說是怎樣才能兩個都刷去永久的同意這是一個問題本來跟你們說的你們要來你們所有的機會現在辦公室要做什麼一星期來"},{"start":228.804,"end":234.106,"text":"先讓我,再來本席要跟你說的就是說,你說之前會啦,在這個總統你們在這裡問的時候,那我覺得在這個85%裡面,我願意去討論,因為搬遷嘛,就是對這個所在去討論上班,但是在"},{"start":252.873,"end":254.976,"text":"我認為我非常滿意,但到了通行時,我認為我越來越不適合那個環境,我更愛坐車,跟小孩的問題、中小孩的問題,跟族群的問題,因為我在台北住好,但我為了環境,"},{"start":273.837,"end":284.453,"text":"我亦派出頭路,我去到桃園,坐一、兩個月薪,我感冒我沒適合的時候,要如何是好來,請回答謝。"},{"start":285.18,"end":296.747,"text":"報告委員,我們對員工在搬遷到桃園以後會有三個比較重要的部分,一個是租屋的補貼,第二個是…沒有啦,我現在都知道要租屋、要大、要什麼,員工人家人的時間,有時候我在南部,我來中部住不下的時候,我也會想到要回到南部的時候,這個補助都有啦,只是我覺得我沒辦法適應,"},{"start":313.456,"end":324.702,"text":"去打一、二個維新我認為沒有適合這樣他是要資遣還是會離議的來,你回答一下來,勞動部來,副市長來是,委員好來,副市長報告,剛剛委員詢問的是說如果是搬遷調動當下我如果沒有辦法過去因為他其實工作地點沒有,我一定願意要去是是是"},{"start":342.19,"end":342.99,"text":"委員說的是有很多搬遷的這種個案這個就是所謂的猶豫期"},{"start":361.235,"end":375.096,"text":"目前在法律面上面我們規範基本的是搬遷時候的離職但是呢很多的因為有工會很多工會會跟僱主談委員關心的就是你要讓我的員工有一些猶豫期"},{"start":376.198,"end":379.381,"text":"對,這是重點,我現在今天煮剛才你問到重點要四分的時候就是這個重點那委員提的猶豫期我們很多的企業會跟工會談在協商在搬遷之前會談猶豫期要多久猶豫期到了時候員工還有一個選擇那那個選擇如果員工要離開的時候是不是優於法令給予一些補償這個會在雙方協商的時候來議定下來喔好,來那個副主委"},{"start":405.675,"end":412.619,"text":"剛才這樣說的,你有聽到嗎?對,有聽到,因為不願意的話當然非自願離職必須有一些事業的給付,但是那個緩衝期的話我現在就是跟你說,跟他們選定的,是有時候我們真的去跟他們的環境,我們又不適合的時候,跟他說我又同時沒有這個選定的時候,是不是有這個阿祖米啊?也謝謝委員,這個有先見之明,因為有人搬過去還會猶豫"},{"start":433.912,"end":436.215,"text":"所以我們會跟基金會來討論是不是有一個緩衝期讓員工有這樣的一個思考我認為你們要緩衝期的時間我們在這裡跟你建議是最起碼要三個月因為這個三個月以後適應孩子安排好"},{"start":451.394,"end":451.634,"text":"很遺憾你們"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}