{"error":false,"id":["152442"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152442,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152442","日期":"2024-05-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-35-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-13T11:09:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-13T11:16:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d7e25ee5d31e1734e32918fb3f90f8e9a2603b6fafef9a002d94006c6d412c4d59d0ed36465ba0c85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"11:09:10 - 11:16:46","會議時間":"2024-05-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家安全局、外交部報告「大陸領導人習近平訪歐後國際關係變化對我國安之影響」，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":508,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時8分）可惜了寶貴的5分鐘！國防委員會質詢竟在討論「林北」到底是不是髒話？可惜啊、可惜啊！謝謝召委，請外交部田次長、歐洲司黃司長、國安局徐副局長。"],["主席：請田次長，歐洲司司長，國安局徐副局長。"],["田次長中光：委員早。"],["邱委員志偉：我先問一下立陶宛的選情。Nauseda和Simonyte後來最新的狀況怎麼樣？好像Nauseda第一輪大概百分之四十幾？"],["田次長中光：報告委員，您可不可以靠近一下麥克風？聽不太清楚。"],["邱委員志偉：現任總理跟現任總統，現在現任總統是Nauseda，他目前第一輪是領先嘛，對不對？"],["田次長中光：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那會不會超過50%？"],["田次長中光：不會。"],["邱委員志偉：不會，那就第二輪？"],["田次長中光：對，要第二輪。"],["邱委員志偉：第二輪就是526，所以526的第二輪就是由第一輪得票率的前兩位，就是現任總統跟總理嘛，那你們預估，因為現任的大使是剛過去，黃大使、黃司長你最清楚，如果進入第二輪，是不是現任總統他當選的機率比較大一點？"],["田次長中光：一般的預測跟政治觀察家……"],["邱委員志偉：假如是他當選，那他之前所發表的言論，會不會影響臺立的關係？就是說，他會不會在他新當選之後，把臺灣跟立陶宛的代表處做降級？或者把臺灣改成臺北，有沒有這種可能性？"],["田次長中光：在競選期間，他有做過這樣子的發言，但是在昨天12號的時候，記者再問他同樣的問題，他是說他會持續跟臺灣發展文化跟經貿的深化。"],["邱委員志偉：這個不衝突啊。"],["田次長中光：所以……"],["邱委員志偉：這不衝突啊，我是說他將臺灣降級成臺北，與他們要跟臺灣持續深化文化、經貿關係是不衝突的，我問一下黃司長，你在立陶宛多久？"],["黃司長鈞耀：3年左右，兩年多。"],["邱委員志偉：這兩位Nauseda跟Simonyte都是你的朋友，對不對？"],["黃司長鈞耀：他們……"],["邱委員志偉：那你預估呢？以過去你的努力，我們都肯定，對不對？你不僅設處，然後臺立關係在實質上的互動也非常密切，國會的交流也非常密切，那你預估，如果又是Nauseda當選，他會不會真的去做，把臺立關係降級，把臺灣改成臺北？"],["黃司長鈞耀：呃，這是一個假設性的問題啦……"],["邱委員志偉：不是假設性的問題，馬上就會，怎麼會是假設性問題？你等於用這個來迴避我的問題！"],["黃司長鈞耀：立陶宛是內閣制的國家，我們當初設處的時候……"],["邱委員志偉：應該是半總統制吧，國防、外交應該是屬於總統職權啊。"],["黃司長鈞耀：依據憲法，他可以譬如說任命相關的人啦，但是事實上外交的決策，基本上還是內閣……"],["邱委員志偉：我們不希望他把臺灣改成臺北，但是你要持續努力啦。"],["黃司長鈞耀：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你知道這個問題可能會發生，所以你應該責成，次長，應該責成現任的代表、現任的大使，趕快去把這個關係能夠更穩固，不會因為他連任之後，改變對臺灣的代表處的名稱，當然中國的壓力也是很大啦。","另外，我看國安局跟外交部的報告，一樣是做評估，但外交部的評估是稍微比較正面啦，你的評估第一點是說，歐盟逐漸凸顯歐中關係是對手的論述，第二點是說，法國展現對歐盟對中國的一致立場，對不對？這是你們的評估嘛。"],["田次長中光：是。"],["邱委員志偉：歐盟當然也包括匈牙利，那國安局的評估呢？歐盟個別國家，包括匈牙利，塞爾維亞現在不是嘛，法國當然也是，歐盟個別國家將平衡發展對中關係，那到底歐盟對中國的關係有沒有一致？未來是繼續深化一致，還是會朝向經貿跟政治把它分開，變成歐盟對中政策它有分裂性，或者議題的差別性？這個誰來回答，徐副局長。"],["徐副局長錫祥：報告委員，我想議題他們持續會有差異性，但是個別國家為了經貿的理由，他可能會跟中共有一些接觸，我想這是我們要注意的地方，但是基本上，剛才講到那幾個差異點是存在的。"],["邱委員志偉：所以說到個別國家，除了你們認為匈牙利可能嘛。"],["徐副局長錫祥：是。"],["邱委員志偉：那還有多少國家會跟匈牙利一樣，個別國家的經貿利益去求取平衡，除了匈牙利之外，還有哪些國家？"],["徐副局長錫祥：每個國家跟中共多多少少都有一些經貿往來，這個都是我們在持續觀察的對象。"],["邱委員志偉：在歐盟國家裡面，親中立場比較明確的，如果你不方便回答，你之後再跟我講，就是說親中立場比較明確，歐盟裡面我是覺得有一些親中立場明確，有些是比較模糊，有些是反對，所以這些你就是要把它的等級劃分出來，然後再請外交部或相關部會去針對這些比較親中的國家，我們加強對他們的外交作為。"],["徐副局長錫祥：是。"],["邱委員志偉：另外一個小議題，因為我高鐵趕不上了，那就繼續問，關於這個境外，請再給我1分鐘。因為都是我的幕僚在幫我管理臉書啦，所以我的臉書常常被冒用，被冒用太多了，已經大概五、六次了，我就請刑事警察局去把它下架，有沒有掌握特定人士，包括我們有可能接觸到國家機密啦，或者我們有接觸到政策、立法，有沒有可能這些被假冒的，其來源國是來自於中國？"],["徐副局長錫祥：我們有很多數的個案請國安團隊去追查，最後都是在境外。"],["邱委員志偉：境外，有沒有包括中國？"],["徐副局長錫祥：它還有一些跳板，所以也有港澳，也有在外國、新加坡。"],["邱委員志偉：只要是在中國或者港澳，你要特別注意！另外一個，你再看一下，這個他直接問我說，他們是什麼歐亞研究中心，他說要請我寫文章，要跟我合作，我想這個是誰啊，你有沒有聽過這個單位？歐亞發展研究中心。"],["主席：時間的關係，簡單說明，不然就到委員辦公室說明。"],["徐副局長錫祥：我們這一部分有掌握。"],["邱委員志偉：有掌握？"],["徐副局長錫祥：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你們有沒有聽過這個歐亞發展研究中心？還是我是個案，還是已經有好幾個人有同樣的問題？"],["徐副局長錫祥：之前就有掌握到這一個，等於是這個組織。"],["邱委員志偉：所以他就利用這些來，比方說你幫他寫個文章，他就拿你的文章去當樣板。"],["徐副局長錫祥：是。"],["主席：謝謝，時間的關係。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請羅明才委員、羅明才、羅明才委員不在。","請洪申翰委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":384,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-19","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","徐巧芯","黃仁","林楚茵","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","王定宇","陳培瑜","林憶君","賴士葆","邱志偉","洪申翰","王鴻薇"],"page_start":329,"meetingDate":["2024-05-13"],"gazette_id":"1134401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134401_00013"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家安全局、外交部報告「大陸領導人習近平訪歐後國際關係變化對我國安之影響」，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1134401_00008"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.03096875,"end":0.5372187500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":1.3303437500000002,"end":2.44409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":3.9797187500000004,"end":4.941593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":5.8697187500000005,"end":7.607843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.02971875,"end":8.755343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":8.755343750000002,"end":9.582218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.52721875,"end":14.813468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.598468750000002,"end":14.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":15.083468750000002,"end":16.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.66971875,"end":19.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.24346875,"end":17.344718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":17.46284375,"end":17.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.04909375,"end":20.027843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":20.41596875,"end":25.292843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":25.69784375,"end":31.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":31.50284375,"end":32.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":32.38034375,"end":33.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.48159375,"end":36.83534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":33.46034375,"end":33.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":33.47721875,"end":33.54471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":38.134718750000005,"end":45.23909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":45.54284375,"end":46.08284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":46.38659375,"end":49.91346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.27659375,"end":49.710968750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.727843750000005,"end":49.744718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.91346875,"end":49.99784375},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{"start":288.621,"end":291.924,"text":"每個國家跟中共多少少都有一些經貿往來這個都是我們在持續觀察的對象"},{"start":316.325,"end":343.148,"text":"那我們這個歐盟國家裡面親中立場比較明確的如果你不方便回答你是要再跟我講你說親中立場比較明確歐盟裡面我是覺得有些親中立場明確有些是比較模糊有些是反對所以這些你就是要把這個等級劃分出來然後請外交部或相關部會去針對這個比較親中的國家我們加強對他們外交作為是"},{"start":344.475,"end":354.371,"text":"另外一個小議題,這個,看那個網路,這個,因為高鐵趕不上了,繼續問,這個境外,這個再一分鐘,"},{"start":360.138,"end":388.783,"text":"這個我的臉書常常因為都是我的幕僚在幫我管理臉書所以我臉書常常被冒用被冒用太多了已經大概五六次了我就請警察局他就叫我去下架有沒有掌握這個特定人士包括我們有可能接觸到國家機密或者我們有接觸到政策、立法有沒有可能這些被假冒的來源國是來自於中國"},{"start":389.878,"end":417.543,"text":"我們有很多數的個案請國安團隊去追查最後都是在境外境外當然有沒有包括中國他還有一些跳板所以也有港澳也有在外國新加坡在中國或者港澳你要特別注意另外一個你再看一下這個他直接問我說啊這個他們是歐亞什麼歐亞研究中心"},{"start":419.073,"end":425.285,"text":"他說這個要請我這個寫文章這個要跟我合作我想這個是誰啊"},{"start":426.872,"end":427.132,"text":"歐亞發展研究中心"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}