{"error":false,"id":["152517"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152517,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152517","日期":"2024-05-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-15T10:37:59+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-15T10:47:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7786a6f84a6532c0080d20b8c77a79ae881f4f1090bc66a5abc25b9e10ac7e4553e0a86760a0e7675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"10:37:59 - 10:47:23","會議時間":"2024-05-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員張嘉郡等19人擬具「農村再生條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等17人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員楊瓊瓔等18人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":517,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時38分）主席、各位委員。有請部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好。"],["陳代理部長駿季：委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：今天我們審查農村再生條例，農業部今天的報告也特別提到到去年年底的14年來有很多的成果，既然有很多的成果，表示這個條例確實有繼續執行的必要。你的報告裡面也提到「農村再生基金係由國庫撥充」，看清楚，你自己寫的，「國庫撥充，無自有財源，基金餘額將於116年度用罄」，寫得很清楚，由於因為要用完了，所以立法院的立法委員就主動提案要去協助解決你們的問題，也就是解決農民的問題，這是應該的。這個基金的總額是1,500億，因為116年度就要用完了，當然就要去處理，就要修法啊！這個有4,500億，當然還有另外一個版本，楊瓊瓔召委的是4,500億，然後分20年，原來的是10年，這個版本是分20年來編列，就寫得清清楚楚。然後農村再生基金的用途也要擴大，包括辦理這些相關土地的利用、農宅、生活、生產、生態、文化及景觀空間規劃等等，還包括農村農產業活化各方面，這些都寫得非常詳細，這裡面到底還少了什麼，大家還可以討論。重點在這邊，今天農業部在報告裡面有寫「本部意見」，內容是依據財政紀律法第五條、第七條之規定略以，有關所提法律案增加政府歲出，需有具體指明彌補資金之來源，立法機關制（訂）定或修正法律、法規，不增訂固定經費額度或比率保障。部長，這個主計總處來寫的話都還可以，我勉強可以接受，可是農業部去寫這個，還是要稍微思考一下，要再思考一下。","你的報告有提到國庫撥充，現行條文也是一樣有規定「前項分年編列預算之撥入」，對於召委的版本我也有連署，這裡面有規定農村再生基金之來源如下：政府逐年編列預算之撥入，所以很明確啊！跟財政紀律法毫無牴觸，關於預算怎麼來有寫得很清楚，就是政府逐年編列預算撥入。關於這個部分，我當過30年的公務員，我們在以前沒有法律的時候也是要去爭取預算，不是嗎？要跟主計總處去爭取預算，看明年公務預算是不是能夠再增加，所以這裡寫得很清楚：政府逐年編列預算之撥入，這個基金的預算來源寫得很清楚啊！所以這個部分要請農業部的同仁未來在寫的時候要謹慎，主計室的人當然是這樣寫，可是你不要照抄他的報告，然後列入這個送到立法院的報告。部長，事實上你也寫得很清楚，116年度就用完了，當然要再修法啊！法律制定以後才可以籌編預算，部長，可以嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：跟委員說明，可能有一點誤解，我們一般的計畫通常是四年期計畫，那計畫報院如果核定的話，就會逐年編列，這是一件事情。那今天是在農村再生條例這個法律案裡面去明定一個金額，那要明定一個金額，根據財政紀律法的規定，因為經費的編列是屬於行政權，就是由行政單位來編列，然後經行政院同意以後送立法院來審核。現在因為是委員的版本直接去明列的，所以我們在這邊提出財政紀律法有這樣的一個問題，至於財政紀律法裡面的問題是怎麼樣去解釋，那可能就是看後面的情況到底是怎麼樣，我們只是忠實地去講這件事情。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，這個太過忠實了，如果用「忠實」這兩個字的話，就太過忠實了，你稍微聽我前面講的，這跟一般的法不一樣，為什麼呢？因為這個法是現有的法，然後也確實錢要用光了，116年就要用完了，所以一定要修，不然這個法就要廢止，對不對？除非你認為要廢止，所以本來就已經……"],["陳代理部長駿季：不會廢止啦！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對，所以嘛……"],["陳代理部長駿季：沒有錢也不會廢止啊！"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：錢沒有了，總是要增加嘛！何況原來就已經有了，現在就是要去增加，所以這個部分沒有問題。如果按照主計總處或者是部長剛才的說法，那立法委員、立法院就不能再提任何的法律讓經費增加，常常會提啊！像我們上禮拜內政委員會通過了地方民意代表的條例……"],["陳代理部長駿季：不是，那個就是照……"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：也是要內政部支付，增加了很多錢，內政部要增加。有很多的法律都會增加經費，所以不是這樣子做解釋的。","因為時間的關係，我還是要跟部長說，昨天立法院院會有針對公糧收購的價格討論，因為已經13年未調整，昨天立法院也通過要進行協商，所以這個部分是對農民有利，如果按照剛才的說法，我們連提都不能提，事實上它就是13年未調整，相關的基本工資、物價上漲，各方面都不斷成長，當然我們一樣可以提，不能全部都用財政紀律法來作為一個不同意的理由，所以對這個部分我們共同去努力，好不好？要支持，可以嗎？"],["陳代理部長駿季：我們一定想辦法提出一個更好的方案來協助我們的稻農，以確保他的收入。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：公務預算、政府的預算編列都是各部會要去爭取，給台電1,000億，現在總共已經4,000億了，這是用公務預算，對不對？還不是一樣？你爭取到多一點，就可以促成這些事情。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請呂玉玲委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":68,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張嘉郡","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","蔡易餘","邱志偉","徐欣瑩","洪孟楷","陳亭妃","陳冠廷","游顥","陳超明","鍾佳濱"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-15"],"gazette_id":"1134601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134601_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第 11 屆第 1 會期經濟委員會第 12 次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員張嘉郡等 19 人擬具「農村再生條例第二條及第七條條文修正草案」案；\n二、本院委員邱議瑩等 17 人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案；三、本\n院委員楊瓊瓔等 18 人擬具「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134601_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.29221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":2.5453437500000002,"end":3.2878437500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.192218750000002,"end":23.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":24.83721875,"end":25.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.27909375,"end":33.072218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.20721875,"end":33.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.135343750000004,"end":37.42596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.016593750000006,"end":40.31159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.49721875,"end":41.492843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.729093750000004,"end":45.37409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.69471875,"end":46.555343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":47.078468750000006,"end":48.95159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.76159375,"end":52.883468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.440343750000004,"end":56.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.96721875,"end":57.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.82784375000001,"end":59.549093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.44346875,"end":62.63721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.05909375,"end":68.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.48846875000001,"end":74.58471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.69846875,"end":76.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.94721875,"end":77.82471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":78.58409375000001,"end":79.10721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.32221875,"end":81.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":82.90409375,"end":83.44409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":85.28346875000001,"end":88.37159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.70909375000001,"end":92.92784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.33284375000001,"end":93.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":94.12596875000001,"end":94.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.81346875000001,"end":96.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.92284375000001,"end":98.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.55971875,"end":100.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.07846875000001,"end":102.14159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.41159375000001,"end":104.92596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.97659375,"end":104.99346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.24659375,"end":110.71409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.91221875000001,"end":112.11471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.31284375000001,"end":116.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.85659375,"end":121.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.54784375000001,"end":123.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.72471875000001,"end":124.95659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.46284375,"end":127.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.12909375,"end":129.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.44096875,"end":131.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.75721875000002,"end":134.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.18284375000002,"end":135.94221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.53284375,"end":136.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.02221875,"end":142.16909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":142.55721875,"end":143.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.37971875,"end":144.81846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.71284375000002,"end":147.51846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.39596875,"end":148.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.12159375000002,"end":150.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.70784375000002,"end":152.07471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":152.69909375,"end":154.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.21346875,"end":157.55909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.08221875,"end":159.28034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":160.17471875,"end":160.30971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.13659375,"end":161.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.87909375,"end":162.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.84909375,"end":165.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.30034375000002,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.46471875,"end":168.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.28284375,"end":172.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.50596875000002,"end":178.56846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.54721875,"end":185.35221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":185.70659375000002,"end":187.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.52471875,"end":189.92534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":190.29659375,"end":191.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.81534375,"end":192.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.08096875,"end":194.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.93721875,"end":197.45159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.89846875,"end":200.89409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.34971875000002,"end":204.52221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.84284375000001,"end":206.39534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.91846875000002,"end":208.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.19659375,"end":209.93909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.54659375,"end":215.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.81159375000001,"end":217.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.15721875000003,"end":218.84909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.57471875000002,"end":222.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.05096875,"end":224.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.43034375000002,"end":225.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.61159375000003,"end":228.34971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":228.85596875000002,"end":229.53096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.02034375000002,"end":230.25659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":230.81346875000003,"end":231.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.66971875000002,"end":233.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":233.85096875000002,"end":235.06596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.72409375,"end":239.16659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":239.45346875,"end":242.38971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.79471875000002,"end":243.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.06034375000002,"end":244.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.15284375000002,"end":247.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.36346875,"end":249.78096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.27034375000002,"end":251.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":253.07159375,"end":254.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.16409375,"end":256.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.59846875,"end":259.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.51346875,"end":261.52596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.60596875000005,"end":264.19221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.06971875,"end":268.05659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":268.30971875,"end":268.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":269.55846875000003,"end":270.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":271.16159375,"end":272.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":273.42284375,"end":274.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.67159375,"end":275.73471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":276.40971875,"end":276.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.10159375,"end":277.37159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":277.60784375000003,"end":279.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.79721875,"end":281.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.12596875,"end":285.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.66971875,"end":287.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":287.54721875,"end":289.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.46659375,"end":293.48721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.14534375,"end":296.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":296.99721875,"end":298.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":299.42721875,"end":301.45221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.99221875,"end":303.49409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":304.25346875,"end":305.56971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":306.12659375000004,"end":312.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.14659375,"end":314.98596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.86346875000004,"end":320.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.58846875,"end":322.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":323.74409375000005,"end":324.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":325.27971875000003,"end":328.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":328.33409375,"end":329.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.27471875000003,"end":330.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.29159375,"end":334.20659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":330.37596875,"end":331.57409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.43471875,"end":332.50221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.47659375,"end":335.37096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":336.04596875000004,"end":376.68096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.83721875000003,"end":376.32659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":376.98471875,"end":377.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":377.00159375000004,"end":377.49096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":378.04784375,"end":379.34721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":379.88721875000005,"end":386.87346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":387.09284375000004,"end":390.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":391.96971875,"end":396.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":393.55596875000003,"end":393.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.57659375000003,"end":399.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":400.39034375,"end":401.33534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":401.87534375,"end":403.61346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":403.96784375000004,"end":405.40221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":407.05596875000003,"end":408.74346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":409.77284375000005,"end":411.19034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.07659375000003,"end":410.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.35909375,"end":411.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.46034375000005,"end":411.51096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.51096875,"end":411.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.67971875,"end":411.71346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.71346875,"end":411.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.79784375,"end":411.88221875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":411.88221875000005,"end":414.88596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":411.91596875000005,"end":412.20284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.83971875000003,"end":414.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":415.39221875000004,"end":417.16409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":417.34971875,"end":419.49284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":420.53909375,"end":421.85534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":423.18846875,"end":426.74909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":427.17096875000004,"end":428.47034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":428.84159375,"end":429.16221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":429.76971875000004,"end":430.64721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":432.38534375,"end":433.65096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.56221875000006,"end":436.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":437.14409375,"end":439.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":440.36721875,"end":441.02534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":441.91971875,"end":444.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":444.92346875000004,"end":446.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":446.64471875000004,"end":447.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":448.80471875,"end":453.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.65659375,"end":453.04034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.39471875000004,"end":453.73221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":454.28909375,"end":456.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.51659375,"end":458.84534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":459.31784375,"end":459.89159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":460.27971875000003,"end":462.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":463.89096875,"end":464.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.93721875000006,"end":465.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":465.56159375000004,"end":467.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.05909375000005,"end":469.00409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":469.59471875,"end":470.74221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.41721875,"end":473.64471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":474.40409375,"end":474.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.88909375000003,"end":477.13784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.55971875000006,"end":478.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.94346875,"end":479.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.46221875000003,"end":483.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.53346875000005,"end":483.76971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":484.24221875,"end":485.81159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":486.19971875000005,"end":487.48221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":488.34284375000004,"end":488.59596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":489.50721875000005,"end":493.27034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":493.48971875,"end":496.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":497.05034375,"end":500.07096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":500.79659375000006,"end":501.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":502.46721875000003,"end":505.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":506.09534375000004,"end":510.28034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":510.58409375,"end":512.74409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":513.2165937500001,"end":515.24159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":516.08534375,"end":520.8272187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.2153437500001,"end":528.0834687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.20159375,"end":528.5390937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":528.5390937500001,"end":528.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":528.75846875,"end":529.02846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.02846875,"end":529.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":529.56846875,"end":529.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":529.58534375,"end":529.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.0747187500001,"end":530.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.46284375,"end":530.73284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":530.73284375,"end":533.1797187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":533.6015937500001,"end":535.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":535.2890937500001,"end":536.77409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":536.9428437500001,"end":538.2590937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.2590937500001,"end":538.4109687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.4109687499999,"end":538.4953437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.4953437500001,"end":538.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":538.56284375,"end":538.90034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":539.5247187500001,"end":541.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.22471875,"end":544.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":544.80659375,"end":546.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.9497187500001,"end":549.0928437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":549.56534375,"end":550.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":550.98284375,"end":552.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":552.19784375,"end":553.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":554.35784375,"end":555.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":555.35346875,"end":556.6697187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":556.75409375,"end":557.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":558.4753437500001,"end":559.3528437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":562.1203437500001,"end":564.9722187500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.329,"end":23.125,"text":"接下來我們請鄭天才委員請做巡檔主席、各位委員、有請部長我們再請陳部長"},{"start":32.535,"end":59.355,"text":"部長好兩位好今天我們審查農村再生條例這個農業部的報告今天的報告也特別提到這個14年來到去年年底也寫了很多的成果既然有很多的成果表示這個條例確實有繼續要執行的必要你的報告裡面也提到"},{"start":61.195,"end":83.264,"text":"這個農村再生基金系由國庫撥充看清楚你自己寫的國庫撥充無自有財源基金已將於116年度用完寫得很清楚啊所以因為要用完了所以"},{"start":86.623,"end":111.953,"text":"立法院的立法委員主動提案要去協助解決你們的問題,也就是解決農民的問題。這是應該的。這裡面這個基金的總額從1500億,因為要116年度就要用完了,要去處理啊,就要修法啊。"},{"start":113.676,"end":135.385,"text":"這個有四千五百億當然還有另外一個版本這個楊瓊瓔召委的是四千五百億然後分二十年原來的是十年分二十年來編列寫得清清楚楚然後基金的農村再生基金的用途也要擴大"},{"start":137.204,"end":159.117,"text":"相關的這些土地的利用、農宅生活、生產、生態文化、景觀、空間規劃等等還包括很多農村、農產業、活化各方面的這些都提了非常的詳細。這裡面到底還少了什麼,大家還可以討論。好,重點"},{"start":164.895,"end":194.196,"text":"重點在這邊今天農業部的報告裏面提到本部意見依據財政紀律法第五條第七條之規定類有關所提法律案增加政府稅出須有具體指明彌補資金之來源立法機關制定或修正法律法規不增訂固定"},{"start":195.941,"end":197.282,"text":"經費額度或比例保障。」"},{"start":218.348,"end":246.462,"text":"剛才你的報告也有提到國庫撥充。現行條文也是一樣。前項分年編列預算之撥入。現在召委的版本我也有連署了。這裡面提到農村再生基金之來源如下政府逐年編列預算撥入。很明確啊!很明確!"},{"start":248.61,"end":257.134,"text":"事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會"},{"start":276.448,"end":302.624,"text":"公務預算能夠再增加。」所以寫得很清楚政府逐年編例預算撥入基金這個預算來源寫得很清楚所以這個部分要請我們農業部的同仁未來寫的時候要謹慎不要聽那個主計你們叫主計處"},{"start":304.661,"end":320.645,"text":"組織四、組織處等19人擬具:「農村再生條例第七條及第十五條條文修正草案案案案案案案﹚立法院第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第11屆第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經濟委員會第12會期經"},{"start":330.305,"end":358.645,"text":"各位委員說明可能有一點誤解我們一般的計劃計劃通常是四年期計劃那計劃抱怨如果合定的話會逐年編列這是一件事情那今天是在農村再生條例這個法律案裡面去明定一個金額那明定一個金額根據財政紀律法本身因為經費的編列是屬於行政權就是由行政單位來編列然後送行政院同意以後送立法院來審核"},{"start":360.006,"end":377.552,"text":"那現在是因為委員的版本直接去名列了所以我們在這邊提出來說就是說因為財政紀律法有這樣的一個問題那至於說財政紀律法裡面的問題是怎麼樣去解釋那可能就是看後面的情況到底是我們只是忠實的去講這件事情"},{"start":379.966,"end":407.982,"text":"太過忠實了。稍微聽我前面講的。跟一般的法不一樣。跟一般的法不一樣。為什麼呢?因為這個法是現有的法。然後也切實錢要用光了。一百一十六要用完了。所以一定要修。不然說話就要廢止。對不對?除非你認為要廢止。"},{"start":409.887,"end":433.043,"text":"所以本來就已經不會廢紙對所以嘛沒有錢也不會廢紙啊這個錢沒有總是要增加嘛所以嘛因為他已經有了何況現在原來已經有了就是要去增加所以這個部分沒有問題好如果按照這個主計總署"},{"start":434.602,"end":435.702,"text":"事由：審查：事由：審查：事由：審查："},{"start":465.04,"end":487.274,"text":"所以不是這樣子做解釋的當然我們這個時間的關係這個我還是要跟這個部長昨天立法院院會針對這個公糧收購的價格十三年未調整昨天立法院"},{"start":489.614,"end":515,"text":"也通過要進行討論協商所以這個部分這個是對農民有利按照剛才的說法我們連提都不能提所以這個部分它就是事實上是十三年未調整相關的基本工資物價上漲各方面的不斷成長當然我們一樣可以提"},{"start":516.498,"end":531.987,"text":"不能全部都用財政紀律收支、財政紀律法來去作為一個不同意的理由。所以這個部分我們共同的請努力,好不好?要支持,可以嗎?公務預算、政府的預算編列"},{"start":542.284,"end":544.946,"text":"事由：審查：立法院第11屆第12期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會及第十五條條文修正草案案：審查："}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}