{"error":false,"id":["152565"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152565,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152565","日期":"2024-05-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-16T09:21:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-16T09:31:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc309f9662f3ed7cc0b6974d6013279311fbe01ba30ddb4afe0f9284dfcc574f75d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:21:48 - 09:31:49","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員黃仁等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「離島建設條例第三條、第七條及第七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「離島建設條例第五條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例第十條條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員蔡易餘等21人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":167,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時22分）謝謝主席，我們是不是請國發會的副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["陳委員亭妃：副主委，我在4月22號有跟我們經濟委員會到臺南，跟工業區和產業園區的一些廠商還有理事長座談，其實目前最重要的問題就是缺工，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：那這怎麼辦？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：其實人力短缺跟人才短缺在過去幾年不僅是臺灣，而且是各國面對的一些課題，對於缺工的問題，當然我們希望在國內這些人才或人力的培育以外，我想委員可能也知道，我們希望開放中階技術移工可以留在臺灣，如果有針對比如說建築業或一些相關產業的缺工問題，我們也可以從外面引進外籍勞工來因應，所以其實政府針對缺工問題有一些相關的因應對策。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是緩不濟急啊，我們現在看到整個高科技產業的發展，我們有護國神山之後，所有傳產的人才幾乎都被高科技吸走了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：傳產找不到人，可是其實我們的隱形產業是在傳產。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：雖然現在看到護國神山，但並不是半導體就可以維持我們臺灣經濟的成長，我們靠的是很多的傳產。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：面臨現在傳產有那麼多產業界提出相關需求，絕對不是只有開放所謂的中階外籍移工進來而已，而是我們要怎麼去加強媒合，在人才媒合還有整個教育體系訓練出他們需要的一些對象和一些需求，這才是我們要的。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是現在這個平臺接不上來，你會不會這樣覺得？接不上來耶！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，我們會裡面其實有一個叫做跨部會人才跟人力協調的溝通平臺，中間包括了教育部、勞動部、本會還有相關的部會……"],["陳委員亭妃：這個平臺多久了？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：開過十幾次會議，應該有兩、三年。"],["陳委員亭妃：兩、三年了？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：可是這兩、三年，我們只有看到這個洞越來越大、需求越來越大，然後……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我跟委員報告……"],["陳委員亭妃：對於教育部，我們一直從技職體系跟產業的媒合，甚至還有很多技職在產業實習，可是一樣沒有辦法達到我們預期的效果，我們有沒有去檢討為什麼？這個平臺我們開了十幾次的會議，兩、三年了，副主委自己說的，兩、三年了，表示這兩、三年開了十幾次的會議還是沒有辦法到位。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我跟委員報告，其實教育部在過去已經在全省設了12個區域的產學合作中心，這個區域產學合作中心裡面事實上就是媒介每一個區域裡面的一些學校，也就是一些技職或者是大學跟當地的產業，尤其是委員講到很多都是傳產產業，進行一些產學合作，意思就是說，他們會設計一些產學的專班，是完全……"],["陳委員亭妃：副主委，我們知道啊！有在做，我不是說沒有在做……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，瞭解。"],["陳委員亭妃：有在做，可是這兩、三年來都有在做的狀況下，大家為什麼那個感受度會覺得我缺的人才更多？我需要的沒有辦法到位，這才是問題所在啊！我不是說你們沒有在做，如果今天政府沒有在做，那我們當然就要求你們趕快設立一個平臺，現在問題是你們有平臺，然後也有在做這些跨部會的整合，也有在開會，那為什麼沒有辦法到位？這才是問題點啊！所有的產業，每一次我們下鄉去瞭解的時候，帶著我們部會下去，大家的反應就是沒人、沒有人才、人力短缺、他們找不到工，這就是事實啊！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：然後他們明明訂單很多卻不敢接，因為接了訂單也沒有用。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，關於傳產人力短缺，某個程度上是一個結構性的問題，跟我們少子化及產業人力需求的分布有關，比如說有一些高科技可能磁吸了某些人才，人才跟人力都有關係，當然我也承認我們政府政策的推動、努力的程度有點趕不上這整個趨勢的變化。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果你們今天這個平臺兩、三年只有開十幾次會議，我覺得太少了……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：應該是定期都會開會，至少每個月都會開一次。"],["陳委員亭妃：定期都會開會？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：如果定期開會還沒有辦法找出問題所在，那你們自己也要檢討。而且不要忘了，在未來我們有幾個大轉型，我們面臨2050的淨零碳排，這個轉型之大，然後還有智慧化的轉型，也就是智能化、全自動化，這些轉型我們都必須面對整個國際情勢的演變跟競爭力，這些人才要更多。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，所以我可以跟委員報告，我們在那個平臺裡面，過去幾年有做了一些突破框架式的作法，包括到國外攬才、給獎學金、設立12個區域的產學合作中心等等，還有我們有一些半導體學院特別條例的提出，面對這種嚴峻的人才跟人力短缺的結構性問題，其實行政部門的確想要有一些突破框架式的創新作法。謝謝委員的垂詢，我想我們會更努力。"],["陳委員亭妃：這些突破基本上已經不敷我們現在的產業界，他們速度之快，已經變成是人家的速度很快，我們行政的速度緩了人家好幾拍，當然今天企業是要跟整個國際去競爭、去比速度、跟時間賽跑，沒錯，我們這幾年來突破了一些框架，在經濟委員會，我們自己也修了很多的法，包括在人才上讓其更為開放，更能跟世界接軌，這是有的，可是太慢了，速度慢到基本上已經不符他們的一個期待，拜託！因為國發會是know-how，永遠就是一個平臺的主控者，所以當這個平臺在進行的當中，跨部會的協商永遠就是由我們國發會來做主導、來做協助，然後當我們所謂的效率、整個機制沒有出來之前，大家動不了，所以我要拜託的是，這兩、三年來我們這個平臺到底開了幾次會、我們做了哪些決定、我們做了哪些協助、我們跟產業有什麼樣的接軌、我們給它什麼樣的一個期待，我們這12個點做了哪些人才的挹注，這才是重要，我要這些資料。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，針對人才跟人力短缺的問題，其實我們有整個全盤的規劃，我們會把相關所有的這些報告提供給委員參考。"],["陳委員亭妃：再麻煩了，最主要是這個平臺開了幾次會……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：沒問題。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個平臺做了哪幾個決議？這個平臺、這12個點協助了多少產業人才的一些架構，我們需要這些資料，謝謝。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：沒問題，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來我們請賴瑞隆委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","黃仁","陳玉珍","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具\n「離島建設條例第十條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員蔡易餘等21人擬具「離島建設條例第十\n條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134601_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":2.7815937500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.87721875,"end":15.775343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.04534375,"end":16.95659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.36159375,"end":21.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.203468750000003,"end":31.722218750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.430968750000005,"end":36.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.75096875,"end":38.60721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.70846875,"end":40.68284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.83471875,"end":41.931593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.032843750000005,"end":43.197218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.838468750000004,"end":45.205343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":45.54284375,"end":48.242843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.74909375,"end":50.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.297218750000006,"end":54.149093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.85784375,"end":55.937843750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.376593750000005,"end":57.40596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.595968750000004,"end":56.798468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.384718750000005,"end":64.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.59471875,"end":88.45596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":88.94534375,"end":110.00534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.00534375000001,"end":110.02221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.02221875000001,"end":110.68034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.68034375,"end":110.79846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":110.79846875000001,"end":110.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.96721875,"end":111.87846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.24971875000001,"end":116.72159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.28346875000001,"end":112.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.24471875,"end":119.79284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.02909375,"end":127.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":128.07846875,"end":130.25534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.59284375000001,"end":136.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.95471875,"end":138.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.42284375,"end":140.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.10596875000002,"end":143.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.73846875,"end":147.61971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.85596875000002,"end":162.11534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.02346875,"end":156.76596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.33971875,"end":158.82471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.99346875,"end":159.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.28409375,"end":170.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.29971875,"end":178.43346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.89846875,"end":173.11784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.60221875000002,"end":178.63596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.63596875000002,"end":178.66971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":178.66971875000002,"end":178.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.80471875,"end":179.44596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.64846875,"end":181.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":181.65659375,"end":182.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.90534375000001,"end":183.56346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.18784375,"end":185.53784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":185.53784375,"end":185.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.06096875,"end":186.07784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.07784375,"end":198.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.39221875,"end":205.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.81721875000002,"end":212.67284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.47534375,"end":210.10784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.67284375000003,"end":212.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.79096875000002,"end":215.71034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.75284375,"end":214.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.14909375000002,"end":218.73096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.10221875000002,"end":220.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.13596875000002,"end":219.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.26221875000002,"end":226.59471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.08909375000002,"end":222.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.84846875000002,"end":223.27034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.72971875000002,"end":246.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.26659375000003,"end":250.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.48534375000003,"end":257.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.03721875,"end":291.83346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","sta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草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":104.974,"end":120.745,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第"},{"start":131.972,"end":132.432,"text":"案。」案。"},{"start":161.852,"end":164.533,"text":"案：立法院第11屆第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會第12次全體委員會"},{"start":184.246,"end":203.566,"text":"你會不會有這樣的覺得?接不上來。其實跟委員報告,就是說我們會裡面其實有一個跨部會的人才跟人力的協調溝通平台,那中間包括了教育部、勞動部、"},{"start":206.834,"end":209.675,"text":"案、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具、「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案案案、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":221.511,"end":221.851,"text":"我跟委員報告"},{"start":251.531,"end":271.417,"text":"案,表示這兩三年開了十幾次的會議還是沒有辦法到位。我跟委員報告就是說其實教育部在過去其實已經在全省設了12個區域產學合作的中心那這個區域產學合作的中心裡面事實上就是媒介"},{"start":272.197,"end":273.498,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":300.061,"end":300.861,"text":"案﹚一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":322.007,"end":348.6,"text":"現在問題是我們有平台然後也有在做這些跨部會的整合也有在做這個開會那為什麼沒有辦法到位這才是問題點呢那所有的產業每一次我們下鄉去了解的時候帶著我們部會下去大家的反應就是沒人沒有人才人力短缺我們找不到工"},{"start":350.032,"end":356.724,"text":"這就是事實啊然後他們明明訂單很多不敢接因為接的訂單沒有用"},{"start":358.1,"end":358.14,"text":"案。〔記者〕"},{"start":383.442,"end":395.425,"text":"案﹚立法院第十三條條文修正草案﹚陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案﹚陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案﹚陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案﹚陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案﹚陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案﹚陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條條文修正草案﹚"},{"start":412.91,"end":429.153,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具:「離島建設條例第十"},{"start":441.815,"end":462.526,"text":"案、包括到國外攬財給獎學金、然後在區域設立12個區域產學合作中心等等的其實還有我們有一些就是我們那個半導體、學院特別條例的提出其實我們真的就是面對這種嚴峻的人才跟"},{"start":463.586,"end":467.808,"text":"一、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具〈離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案〉案〈離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案〉案〈離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案案〉案〉"},{"start":491.656,"end":496.879,"text":"案﹚立法院第11屆第12屆第13條條文修正草案案﹚立法院第12屆第13條條文修正草案案。"},{"start":510.626,"end":513.969,"text":"案：立法院第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具 «離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案：立法院陳玉珍等18人擬具"},{"start":526.96,"end":547.043,"text":"他永遠就是一個平台的一個主控者所以當這個平台在進行的當中跨部會協商永遠就是由我們國發會來做主導來做協助然後當我們這個所謂的一個效率跟整個機制沒有出來大家動不了"},{"start":547.723,"end":568.468,"text":"事由我拜託我要這兩三年來我們這個平台到底開了幾次會我們做了哪些決定我們做了哪些協助我們跟產業有什麼樣的接軌我們給他什麼樣的一個期待我們這12個點做了哪些人才的一些挹注"},{"start":569.755,"end":570.395,"text":"條例第十三條條文修正草案"},{"start":599.879,"end":599.899,"text":"案。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}