{"error":false,"id":["152571"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152571,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152571","日期":"2024-05-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-23","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":23,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-16T09:16:48+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-16T09:25:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc306b8da99e35f06c16c1296c2fd5de7bd8e01ba30ddb4afe0f016580a9b45654d35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"09:16:48 - 09:25:36","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅智強等29人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員王世堅等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n二、併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（二）委員楊瓊瓔等21人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（三）委員林月琴等17人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（四）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（五）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（六）委員徐巧芯等19人擬具「揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n（七）委員吳宗憲等19人擬具「公益揭弊者保護法草案」案。\n【第二案（七）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":98,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（9時16分）按照你的指示，就兩案。"],["主席：兩案的話，我給你時間長一點，6分鐘。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。","主席、各位委員。2,470天，這是從2017年8月12日全國司法改革會議總結會議到今天間隔的時間；2,470天，這是一個承諾臺灣社會要制定公私合併吹哨者保護法的民進黨政府跳票的時間。制定吹哨者保護法不僅僅是我們司改國是會議的承諾，更是我國在聯合國反貪腐公約下面所承擔的責任。我們在聯合國反貪腐公約第一次、第二次國家報告上面白紙黑字地寫，我國政府在研訂公益揭弊保護法，請問這一部公益揭弊保護法到底在哪裡？我今年回到立法院，在第一次行政院院長總質詢的時候，我就請教陳建仁院長，行政院版的吹哨者保護法什麼時候要交出來？他告訴臺灣社會說他要研議，研議到今天，行政院長陳建仁要率內閣總辭了，請問行政院版的吹哨者保護法在哪裡？依然不見蹤跡！這就是為什麼民主進步黨在推動司法改革的時候，讓人民失望透頂的原因。","任何一個文明法治的國家都知道制定吹哨者保護機制的重要性，我們不能夠讓勇敢站出來揭發弊案的人，面對來自於權貴、來自於財團、來自於那些作奸犯科的人無止境的追殺。在我國的歷史上，吹哨者的血淚斑斑，有人被殺，有人家破人亡，有人整個人生都毀了，但是我們的政府無動於衷，提不出一部吹哨者保護法。","今天非常感謝我們的召委吳宗憲，聽到社會各界殷切地期盼，終於把吹哨者保護法排上議程。臺灣制定吹哨者保護法，不僅僅是我們向文明社會所作下的莊嚴承諾，更是我們要清楚地告訴全國人民，這個社會不能讓壞人精神抖擻，好人卻已經疲憊。","今天要提的第二個法案，是有關加重詐欺罪，刑法第三百三十九條之四的規定，我曾經以臺版柬埔寨首腦「藍道」在司法及法制委員會的公聽會當過例子。這一位加入了黑幫的詐騙組織，犯下31個加重詐欺罪，我們的政府告訴人民，加重詐欺的法定刑是一年以上七年以下，但有沒有人可以解釋，為什麼犯下31個加重詐欺罪的「藍道」，他一天的牢都沒有坐？在我們層層法律的解釋、適用下，12個加重詐欺罪，宣告刑六年，執行刑剩下十個月，最後易服勞動，一天牢都沒有坐。另外犯的19個加重詐欺罪，宣告刑二十一年，執行刑兩年，最後宣告緩刑，一個牢也沒有坐。這樣的司法實務、這樣的刑事司法在傳遞給社會、傳遞給我們的年輕人，什麼樣的訊息？太好賺了，太好賺了！犯罪的成本趨近於零，我不去參加詐騙集團，有什麼比這個更有前途的？這位「藍道」一路在我們的刑事司法政策下，從詐騙集團的小弟一步一步走到首腦，最後犯下令人髮指的臺版柬埔寨案，這樣的案件不需要我們的政府痛定思痛嗎？","我要特別說明的是，在我國的司法實務上所出現最荒謬的狀況是，當如果是用犯罪組織的型態去進行詐欺行為的時候，我們的組織犯罪防制條例是源自於美國的RICO法案，在美國的RICO法案之下，如果是以組織的型態去進行特定的犯罪行為，那個是刑度一下子就拉高，為什麼？因為從犯罪本身行為的罪質，可責性會造成對法益的侵害，組織犯罪比個人犯罪也好，三人同夥去犯也好，它嚴重的程度嚴重太多了，但在我國目前刑事司法的操作下，透過想像競合，從一重處斷，組織犯罪不用論，直接論第三百三十九條之四，這是長久以來我國法院操作的現狀，也是我國目前刑事司法在實踐上為什麼沒有辦法有效打擊透過組織犯罪的型態來進行詐騙行為最深層的原因。","也正是因為這個樣子，台灣民眾黨黨團今天一方面針對吹哨者保護法提出黨團的版本，另外一方面，針對犯罪組織進行詐騙行為，我們認為絕對不能再讓他想像競合掉──絕對不能再讓他透過想像競合的抽象法律概念，在我們的刑事司法制度當中，把他的罪責、把他的惡行、把他的實害全部都蒸發掉。所以我們透過第三百三十九條之四條文的修訂，希望能夠大幅加重處罰犯罪組織進行詐騙的行為。敬請各位委員支持，以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位我們請羅智強委員進行提案說明。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-23","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","林月琴","黃國昌","羅智強","王世堅","黃健豪","謝龍介","陳俊宇","沈發惠","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","沈伯洋","林思銘","莊瑞雄","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","賴士葆","牛煦庭","徐巧芯","翁曉玲"],"page_start":39,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134801_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第23次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查( 一) 委員廖偉翔等18 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」\n案、(二)委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(三)委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條\n文修正草案」案、( 四) 委員羅智強等29 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」\n案、(五)委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(六)委\n員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(七)委員謝衣鳯等\n17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 八 ) 委員洪孟楷等22 人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百\n三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、 ( 十一) 委員王世堅等22 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九\n條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬\n具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三\n百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中\n華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案；二、併案審查 ( 一 ) 委員廖偉翔等18 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