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10:27:15","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":467,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（10時18分）好，我想請次長，還有國庫署署長。"],["主席：請阮次長以及國庫署署長。"],["阮次長清華：委員早。"],["黃委員珊珊：財政部還有國庫署，我想目前行政院非常重視居住正義，所以對於居住正義做得不夠的部分，不斷的用各種的法案來推動，尤其是平均地權條例、限制預售屋。目前為止這幾天看到的新聞剛好相反，我們的預售屋市場大爆發，買單非常的好，當然國庫署這邊負責的是新青安貸款，對吧？"],["阮次長清華：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：新青安貸款上路之後，目前申請的狀況如何？"],["阮次長清華：對不起，委員……"],["黃委員珊珊：申請的狀況如何？"],["阮次長清華：如果從去年8月份上線的話，目前大概有四萬四千多戶……"],["黃委員珊珊：次長，那你覺得跟我們這一波的購屋狂潮有沒有關係？"],["阮次長清華：我是覺得，因為新青安其實……我先講啦，實施之前其實是朝野的共識，這是第一個，第二個……"],["黃委員珊珊：對，沒錯，但是我們希望不要變成炒房的幫兇。"],["阮次長清華：對，當然我們也希望這樣，但是因為新青安的適用條件非常明確……"],["黃委員珊珊：沒錯。"],["阮次長清華：一定是本人還有他的配偶及他的未成年的……"],["黃委員珊珊：它有一定的限制……"],["阮次長清華：他沒有自用住宅……"],["黃委員珊珊：但是相對的是，它的確跟我們平均地權條例，希望能夠抑制房價，目前看起來的效益剛好是相反，也就是在我們政策工具上面，行政院不同部門提出的東西其實是互相拉扯的。第一個，最重要的是全國的住宅指數，112年第四季比第三季上漲了2.27%，又比111年上漲了6.8%，也就是說我們住宅價格不斷的在上漲。現在新青安是由我們的公營行庫來做提供，你們剛剛講有一個要求，新青安的目標是希望年輕人或者是有自住需求的人可以得到比較低利的貸款，然後他們可以負擔的起。"],["阮次長清華：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以自住是不是其中一個條件？"],["阮次長清華：自住而且是唯一的一戶……"],["黃委員珊珊：唯一的一戶？"],["阮次長清華：唯一的一戶，而且……"],["黃委員珊珊：自住而且單一？"],["阮次長清華：而且單一的……"],["黃委員珊珊：好，他不可以是投資客嘛！"],["阮次長清華：對、對。"],["黃委員珊珊：但是我想問一下，目前為止你們如何確定他是自住？"],["阮次長清華：我們現在要求公股行庫在審的時候一定要根據相關的授信原則去評估……"],["黃委員珊珊：怎麼樣審？"],["阮次長清華：比如根據他……"],["黃委員珊珊：他自己說的？"],["阮次長清華：他的財產是不是只有一戶？"],["黃委員珊珊：好，那怎麼證明他是自住？"],["阮次長清華：第二個，我們希望他們到現場去看……"],["黃委員珊珊：去看現場是不是他自住？"],["阮次長清華：是不是他自住的……"],["黃委員珊珊：比如說他有傢俱、有生活用品，有他自己個人的東西，看得出來是自住……"],["阮次長清華：對，自住。第三個，如果發現違法，我們會要求要追回那些相關的補貼……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以現在有追到了嗎？有查證過嗎？"],["阮次長清華：目前還沒有發生這種情況，因為新青安推動之後，我跟委員報告，現在我們其實協助那些無殼蝸牛有四萬多戶……"],["黃委員珊珊：我同意啦！我們都同意。"],["阮次長清華：有四萬多戶買到這樣的房子……"],["黃委員珊珊：但是次長，我們的問題就在於，現在已經有人利用年輕人當人頭，買了這些房子以後做包租公……"],["阮次長清華：這部分我們會請公股行庫再加強……"],["黃委員珊珊：不是加強，我現在問的是，你們目前有沒有跟任何其他政府部門有的資料勾稽？比如說有人去申請了租金補貼，你們有沒有勾稽？有人還去做了租金綜所稅的申報，你們有沒有勾稽？"],["阮次長清華：我們一定會勾稽，為什麼呢？因為這個錢不是我們財政部的錢，這個是住宅基金的錢……"],["黃委員珊珊：是，這是住宅基金的錢。"],["阮次長清華：所以內政部那邊跟我們這邊，還有……"],["黃委員珊珊：我今天具體要求，勾稽什麼時候要開始做？"],["阮次長清華：這個一直都……今年結算申報以後就會勾稽，比如說我這個是租的……"],["黃委員珊珊：租金補貼，內政部要勾稽……"],["阮次長清華：對、對、對。"],["黃委員珊珊：申報，財政部要勾稽……"],["阮次長清華：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：這個在新青安貸款裡面要成為你們的SOP，可以嗎？"],["阮次長清華：是，另外我跟委員報告，其實我覺得新青安其實是變成代罪羔羊，為什麼呢？因為它的占比其實很小……"],["黃委員珊珊：很小，沒錯，但是它會造成大家對房市的期待心理……"],["阮次長清華：對。"],["黃委員珊珊：因為有這樣子的優惠，房子可能會搶手，所以就開始炒作……"],["阮次長清華：對，所以我覺得新青安是被利用作為炒房……"],["黃委員珊珊：我們不要讓新青安貸款淪為炒房的幫兇，首先不要讓他成為包租公，拿新青安的低利息，讓他可以去當包租公還可以有高收益，好不好？這是最重要的標準。"],["阮次長清華：是，完全贊同委員，謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分，我們希望財政部最後的勾稽變成你們的SOP，因為這些錢是人民的納稅錢。"],["阮次長清華：是，我們會來做。"],["黃委員珊珊：不能讓我們支持無房青年的善意跟相關的力道，竟然變成炒房的幫兇。"],["阮次長清華：是、是、是。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，這是第一個。"],["阮次長清華：是，謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：第二個部分，我請一下關務署，次長請留步。"],["彭署長英偉：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：好，今天很特別的是我們在修所謂的免徵關稅的海關進口稅則，今天是要增加馬紹爾的免關稅，但是我們看了一下，這幾年我們跟中南美洲有5個邦交國，巴拿馬、多明尼加、薩爾瓦多、尼加拉瓜、宏都拉斯都斷交了，這些都還在我們的免稅對象嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，如果是我們這邊有終止或停止了，他就不會成為免稅對象。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，我剛剛講的，這5個國家現在只有巴拿馬還繼續FTA，其他4個國家到目前為止都應該已經終止了吧？"],["彭署長英偉：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：斷交之後，FTA終止了嗎？"],["彭署長英偉：終止或停止FTA跟斷交沒有關係。"],["黃委員珊珊：因為我們看你這個海關進口稅則，他們還在上面，沒有拿下來，我們今天要加馬紹爾，這4個為什麼不把他們拿下來？"],["彭署長英偉：報告委員，那個拿下來的部分，如果它終止失其效力之後……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以還沒終止？"],["彭署長英偉：我們就會把它在海關進口稅則上面拿掉。"],["黃委員珊珊：我現在要問，它已經斷交了，你什麼時候要終止完成？不知道？我們不審這個稅則，我還不知道有這種事，是不是關務署說明清楚？對立法院來說，我們需要知道。"],["阮次長清華：我來補充一點，好不好？"],["黃委員珊珊：嗯。"],["阮次長清華：我來補充一下，是這樣子，我們現在對於比如宏都拉斯，是它主動根據FTA的規定通報我們，說我要退出FTA。退出以後就有一個時間點，那個時間點屆滿以後FTA就失去效力，也就是說……"],["黃委員珊珊：然後你再來修這個法……"],["阮次長清華：這個FTA就沒有了，進口的話……"],["黃委員珊珊：次長，我的意見就是要名實相符，如果有這種狀況，我們所有的配套要儘快完成，不要感覺上有個違章建築還繼續掛在那邊，然後我們又跟他斷交了，海關進口稅則上還給他一大堆免稅的規範。好嗎？……"],["阮次長清華：是，我跟委員補充一下，另外2個國家，就是薩爾瓦多跟另外一個國家……"],["黃委員珊珊：尼加拉瓜。"],["阮次長清華：跟尼加拉瓜。這兩個國家不一樣，它根本沒有通知我們。"],["黃委員珊珊：它就是片面的，連通知都沒有，連程序都沒完成，這種你們就有……"],["阮次長清華：沒有通知，我們根據維也納公約的規定直接廢止，停止這個FTA的效力，但是這個FTA現在還在。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，我的意思是，如果斷交這些事情就儘速處理，而不是繼續掛著，好嗎？"],["阮次長清華：我們近日來思考，好不好？"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝。"],["阮次長清華：謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝黃珊珊委員質詢。","接著請王世堅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-12","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","顏寬恒","吳秉叡","賴惠員","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王世堅","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","賴士葆","羅明才"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案（後接第三冊）","agenda_id":"1134602_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.1953437500000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1.54971875,"end":2.0222187500000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":2.19096875,"end":3.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.01346875,"end":6.764093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":7.54034375,"end":8.164718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.164718750000002,"end":8.181593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.176593750000002,"end":15.235343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.539093750000003,"end":27.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.824093750000003,"end":30.456593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.65471875,"end":35.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.73846875,"end":36.37971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.12221875,"end":39.06284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.41721875,"end":43.66971875},{"speaker":"SPE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然後"},{"start":231.028,"end":249.922,"text":"做包租工這一部分我們會請公務行戶這邊再加強所以不是加強我現在問的是你們有沒有跟任何的其他目前政府部門有的資料來做勾結比如說有人還去申請了租金補貼你們有沒有勾結有人還去做了租金的中所稅的"},{"start":250.643,"end":250.983,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":279.958,"end":298.383,"text":"另外我跟委員報告其實我覺得新清安其實是變代罪羔羊為什麼呢因為它的占比其實很小很小沒錯但是它會造成說大家一種防事的期待心理因為有這樣子的優惠所以大家防"},{"start":304.629,"end":318.221,"text":"所以我們不要讓新青安貸款輪為草房的幫兇首先不要讓他成為包租公拿新青安當成低價利息還可以去當包租公還可以有高收益"},{"start":319.062,"end":343.516,"text":"好不好這是最重要的標準第二個部分就是我們希望財政部最後的勾肌變成你的SOP因為這些錢是人民的納稅錢不能成為這些人他們讓無房青年我們支持他的善意跟相關的力道竟然變成炒房的幫兇這是第一個第二個部分我請一下關務署"},{"start":348.086,"end":365.945,"text":"然後次長請留步委員好好我想今天我們很特別是我們在修所謂的免徵關稅的關海關的進口稅則今天是要增加馬紹爾的免關稅但是我們看了一下"},{"start":367.468,"end":379.622,"text":"這幾年我們跟中南美洲有五個邦交國巴拿馬多米尼加薩爾瓦多尼加拉瓜洪都拉斯都有斷交那這些都還在我們的這些免稅的對象嗎"},{"start":382.458,"end":401.488,"text":"報告委員,如果是我們這邊有終止或停止的,它就不會成為免稅對象。是,那這是我剛剛講的,目前為止我們看到的這五個國家,現在只有巴拿馬還積蓄了FTA,其他四個國家目前為止都應該已經終止了吧?因為斷交之後FTA終止了嗎?"},{"start":402.448,"end":417.62,"text":"總止或停止跟亂交也沒有關係因為我們在看你這個海關進口稅則他們還在上面沒有拿下來那我們今天要加馬紹爾那這四個為什麼不把他拿下來"},{"start":420.543,"end":422.986,"text":"我現在要問的是他已經斷交了,你什麼時候要終止完成?"},{"start":436.448,"end":462.893,"text":"不知道就是我們因為我們不審這個稅則我還不知道會有這種事也就是說是不是我們關務署說明清楚對立法院來說我們需要知道我來補充一下現在是這樣子我們現在就是關於對比如說像宏都拉斯宏都拉斯他是他主動根據FTA的規定來通報我們說這個我要退出FTA是"},{"start":463.473,"end":475.586,"text":"那退出以後呢他就有一個時間點那個時間點借滿以後那麼FTA就失去效力也就是說這個FTA就沒有了沒有了事實上我的意見就是說民時相輔啦"},{"start":476.406,"end":502.423,"text":"如果有這種狀況我們所有的東西配套要盡快的完成不要感覺有個偽裝建築還繼續掛在那邊然後我們又跟他斷交了然後我們又還在海關實行稅則上還給他一大堆免稅的規範我跟委員補充一下就是另外兩個國家就薩爾瓦多薩爾瓦多跟這個另外一個國家跟尼加拉瓜跟尼加拉瓜這兩個國家不一樣他根本沒有通知我們"},{"start":503.143,"end":503.443,"text":"謝謝委員指教"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}