{"error":false,"id":["152609"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152609,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152609","日期":"2024-05-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-16T10:40:32+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-16T10:48:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc3088259718e3d60680974d6013279311fbe01ba30ddb4afe0f6a8907c7f510f4945ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"10:40:32 - 10:48:55","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員黃仁等18人擬具「離島建設條例第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「離島建設條例第三條、第七條及第七條之一條文修正草案」案。\n三、本院委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「離島建設條例第五條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員陳玉珍等17人擬具「離島建設條例第十條條文修正草案」案。\n五、本院委員蔡易餘等21人擬具「離島建設條例第十條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":511,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（10時40分）首先請國發會高副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員早。"],["陳委員超明：副主委好。剛剛邱委員談到地方的創生，他講了一句話，我非常認同，雖然我們不屬於同一個黨派。我從頭到尾就跟你們講，地方創生不能用放煙火秀式的，看起來很漂亮，開個咖啡館、大家去剪綵，就非常高興。結果你去看那些店，大概剩下不到一半的店還在開，因為做生意一定要有商機在，才有辦法繼續維持下去。","我一直強調，國發會的地方創生，當然資源是在各部會，但是我只拜託你國發會，如果要作地方創生，當初地方提出來，一定要做好的規劃、選擇好的地點。剛剛邱委員跟我們都感覺到，你們都注重六都，但是非六都的地方要特別注重啊！","我有問過龔主委，希望你們要編列地方創生的規劃報告經費，一定要來補助，但是現在到底有沒有列進去？不然國發會跟著人家下去做地方創生，你們很沒有面子，說要錢沒有錢，只能表示意見。其實你們都是人才，我都非常的重視，尤其你們負責地方創生這幾個人真的很努力，但是我去看地方創生，不是國發會指導，你們都站在旁邊，害我看到很難過。所以要把經費編出來，規劃報告的經費編出來，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，其實在早一些年的確是各部會編列，可是現在我們本會自己已經有編列預算執行。"],["陳委員超明：一定要做好。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對、對。"],["陳委員超明：而且要做得實際，要了解地方的觀點。我跟你們去過好幾次，其實我們欽佩你們，但是你們去到那裡要錢沒錢，好像媳婦一樣站在旁邊，國發會是鼎鼎的大會。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們負責的是黃處長，他可以跟委員說明，而且他時常跑地方，他對地方的了解其實還蠻多的。"],["陳委員超明：他真的有下鄉了解，而且他真的腳踏實地，我很少認同這樣的官員。"],["黃處長文彥：跟委員報告，其實委員的建議，我們有在研究。"],["陳委員超明：好不好？"],["黃處長文彥：並不是說……"],["陳委員超明：什麼在研究？剛剛副主委說有編列預算了，你還跟我講在研究。"],["黃處長文彥：跟委員報告，這分兩個部分，我們是國發會……"],["陳委員超明：我講規劃報告。"],["黃處長文彥：對，規劃費的部分，我們現在正在研究做的方式。看是由縣政府還是由我們這邊來統籌，我們正在研究中。"],["陳委員超明：沒有、沒有、沒有，副主委，這個問題大條了，你剛剛說編列預算了，現在又說在研究規劃報告。"],["黃處長文彥：跟委員報告，剛剛副主委的意思是地方創生統籌的經費已經由國發會這邊統籌編列了。"],["陳委員超明：不是，我一直強調，你找的地區，財源並不是很充足，你一定要有規劃報告，譬如縣政府、鄉公所跟你搭配，或哪個單位搭配多少，這樣做出來才會真啦！說到這就會得罪人，我實在不想講，我了解內幕嘛。"],["黃處長文彥：報告委員，委員的建議，其實我們正在研究當中。"],["陳委員超明：跟你們講過好幾遍了。"],["黃處長文彥：我們很重視委員的建議，現在正在研究。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，下次我在地方創生的時候去看，我覺得看有效了，實際有功能，實際給地方帶來產業的發展，要規劃報告，你一定要給那些財政比較困難的鄉鎮。這點拜託一下，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["陳委員超明：不要再這樣，否則你們會一直站在旁邊，統籌經費還是要看人家的臉色，這個報告做出來，你就下指示說這個要做了，否則沒有人要聽。我弄很久了，怎麼會不知道？我推動幾個創生計畫，然後觀光再進去，但是你們規劃報告要寫好，規劃的經費不用花多少錢就可以做出很好的成果，用頭腦想一想，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["黃處長文彥：好。"],["陳委員超明：再來，今天討論到離島建設條例。離島受到地理位置、資源的分配，我們真的要全力支持。但是我在其中看到一點，關於無自來水地區，我就特別把資料調出來，全國自來水的普及率95.67%，離島地區是94.55%，馬祖地區是86.87%，澎湖地區是92.91%。我想到苗栗縣就覺得我很可憐，我全力的爭取，民國七十幾年以來，在我當立委的時候，大概從65%逐步的推動，苗栗縣的自來水普及率目前達到87.23%，但是跟全國普及率95.67%還差了一大截。苗栗可憐在哪裡？鯉魚潭水庫都供給臺中在用，包括自來水和工業用水；永和山水庫是供給新竹科學園區，現在我們地方產業慢慢發展，已經回來，但是自來水普及率很低。現在都在偏遠地區，你們單戶成本要60萬元以下才能送去評比。","我只要求一點，請問水利署的黃副署長，你常常陪我下去，我只要問一件事情，也請教國發會，如果水利署送到偏遠地區無自來水的地區，現在單戶成本應該要提到80萬元到90萬元，就要納入核給。苗栗有四個水庫，結果我們的自來水普及率比別人低，害我每次選舉都被修理。黃副署長你是苗栗人，我跟你講，你讓我選舉很痛苦啊！"],["黃副署長宏莆：有啦，委員的建議，我們這一次在報五期計畫的時候，就針對比較特殊的，尤其像苗栗的偏遠地區，而且水庫比較多的，在周邊區域我們都有提高經費，目前正在做計畫呈報，正在討論。我想……"],["陳委員超明：單戶成本，你們有沒有那個地區不要60萬元？"],["黃副署長宏莆：有，有比較提高了，已經提高了。"],["陳委員超明：如果提高到80萬元就給他們過，或者100萬元也給他們過。"],["黃副署長宏莆：是、是，額度我們可能……"],["陳委員超明：我為什麼會再問這個問題？因為自來水公司每次提無自來水地區經費，要送到你們國發會，國發會好像不怎麼同意？你們這些都市人都不知道我們鄉下人，留著好山好水，水的供給都是在偏遠地區，但你們沒有特別照顧，只照顧都市人！這樣怎麼會合理，怎麼對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["陳委員超明：那就改為100萬元！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：OK。"],["陳委員超明：評比100萬元，你就把它送進去，剩下沒有多少了，克盡其功！大膽的把經費補助下來，國發會不要再擋了！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：其實沒有，我們絕對沒有擋，我們尊重主管部會的意見，而且我們會儘速審議。"],["陳委員超明：黃副署長，還有地方創生很重要，有自來水表示有進步的地方，沒有自來水就沒有進步的地方。幫我加油啊，我會好好盯著，謝謝。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來請林德福委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-12","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","黃仁","陳玉珍","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具\n「離島建設條例第十條條文修正草案」案；五、本院委員蔡易餘等21人擬具「離島建設條例第十\n條之一條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1134601_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":0.40221875,"end":3.7434687500000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":5.599718750000001,"end":7.96221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":8.485343750000002,"end":9.51471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.442843750000002,"end":10.864718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.45534375,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":12.585968750000003,"end":13.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":13.328468750000003,"end":14.442218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":19.01534375,"end":19.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.79159375,"end":21.20909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.91784375,"end":25.15784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.81596875,"end":26.980343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.16596875,"end":29.680343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":30.23721875,"end":31.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.87409375,"end":35.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.43034375,"end":43.53471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.10846875,"end":45.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":46.774718750000005,"end":49.45784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":49.89659375,"end":50.892218750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.735968750000005,"end":56.66346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":57.338468750000004,"end":58.705343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.924718750000004,"end":60.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":61.20284375000001,"end":68.15534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.57721875,"end":70.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":70.97346875000001,"end":73.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.82534375,"end":75.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":75.81659375000001,"end":83.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":83.96721875,"end":98.83409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":99.77909375,"end":104.43659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":104.84159375,"end":111.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.57471875,"end":113.29596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.61659375,"end":129.44534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":129.95159375,"end":131.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":132.21284375000002,"end":142.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":141.07221875000002,"end":155.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":148.51409375,"end":149.10471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":149.84721875,"end":150.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":155.02784375000002,"end":156.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":157.33971875,"end":166.97534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.16534375,"end":169.94534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.31659375,"end":172.62846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.35034375,"end":171.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":172.62846875000002,"end":177.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":176.42534375000002,"end":176.98221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.03284375,"end":177.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.15096875,"end":177.20159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.20159375,"end":177.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.57284375,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":177.70784375000002,"end":182.87159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.79221875000002,"end":178.34909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":182.87159375000002,"end":187.83284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":186.04409375,"end":186.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":187.95096875000002,"end":213.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.28346875000003,"end":193.82346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":201.88971875000001,"end":203.56034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":212.57159375,"end":212.70659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.02721875,"end":214.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.12846875000002,"end":213.16221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.47846875000002,"end":214.78221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.78221875000003,"end":218.68034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.23784375000002,"end":215.30534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":219.05159375000002,"end":227.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":228.58596875,"end":229.21034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":229.76721875,"end":235.01534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":232.29846875,"end":235.25159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":236.29784375000003,"end":247.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":236.34846875000002,"end":239.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":248.00909375,"end":250.21971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.40534375000001,"end":251.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.58659375000002,"end":255.65346875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.37909375000004,"end":265.08659375},{"speaker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.803,"end":238.725,"text":"我們很重視委員的建議,我們正在研究"},{"start":257.252,"end":268.586,"text":"案,不然你常常站在旁邊啦,你統籌經費還是要看人家的臉色,這個報告做出來你就下指示說這個要做啦,沒有沒有人要聽,我無法顧啊,我怎麼不知道。"},{"start":273.134,"end":289.695,"text":"我推動了幾個參與生,然後光光的在經濟裡面,但是規劃報告要寫好,規劃的經費請你不用花多少錢就能做得好。用頭腦想一想就好了好不好。再來今天討論到離島建設條例,"},{"start":292.963,"end":308.208,"text":"案、離島的收到地理位置資源的分配,我們真的要全力支持。但是裡面我又看到一點,那個無自來水基地區我就特別把它調出來。全國自來水的普及率95.67%"},{"start":311.169,"end":325.599,"text":"案。」那離島地區是94.55、馬祖地區是86.87、澎湖地區是92.91。那我想到苗栗縣我就覺得我很可憐,我全力的爭取。"},{"start":326.46,"end":353.268,"text":"案、七十幾年來在我當立委的時候大概從65%我就一直步的推動苗栗新的自來水現在目前達到87.23%但是跟全國的普及率95.6G還差了一大截苗栗可憐在哪裡離一潭水庫都供給給台中再用了自來水、工業用水"},{"start":354.068,"end":381.664,"text":"明德水庫以前是供給那個不是永和水庫是供給新竹科學園區現在我們地方產業已經慢慢發達已經回來但是普及率很低啊但是現在都在邊緣的地區啊你們當務成本要60萬以下才能送得進去去評評那我只要你一點那個隨意時的防護市長"},{"start":382.825,"end":383.165,"text":"案件事項"},{"start":406.363,"end":434.808,"text":"結果我們普及率特別低害我們每次選舉都被修理黃仁你是苗栗人我跟你講你知道我選舉很痛苦啊有啦委員的建議我們這一次在報五期計畫的時候就針對比較特殊尤其像苗栗這個比較偏遠地區而且水庫比較多的在周邊的區域的部分我們這個經費都有提高那目前正在做計畫的呈報正在討論單戶成本你們有沒有那個地區不要60萬啊"},{"start":436.108,"end":460.043,"text":"有,有比較提高了,對,已經提高了。提高如果到八十萬就給他們扣了一百萬給他們做。那我為什麼會再問這個問題?因為自來水公司每次要提的自來水、無自來水地區的那個經費的時候要送到你們國外會。國外會好像不怎麼同意捏。你們這裡有多少人都不知道我們整個人留著好山好水。"},{"start":461.201,"end":464.525,"text":"案。 bicycliffe等18人擬具"},{"start":480.183,"end":480.203,"text":"案。」"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}