{"error":false,"id":["152633"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152633,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152633","日期":"2024-05-16","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-16T11:19:16+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-16T11:30:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:32","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/069b0cf7e017bc3064ce4919e71e9064be5ec193467b1025e01ba30ddb4afe0f3af29b1e480214c65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"11:19:16 - 11:30:48","會議時間":"2024-05-16T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案。\n【5月15日及16日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":790,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（11時19分）謝謝主席及各位先進，請財政部的莊部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：部長你好，我剛才稱呼你部長，其實我講得很慢，因為你已經辭掉了，你總辭了對不對？"],["莊部長翠雲：今天我們有簽名總辭。"],["賴委員士葆：所以你就不是部長了，那個政次也不是啦，阮清華是不是政次？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒錯，是我們政務次長。"],["賴委員士葆：對啊！政務官都辭掉了，從現在到520之前，應該稱呼你莊翠雲女士或者莊翠雲小姐還比較貼切，你今天是社會賢達人士來備詢，這樣子是合理的，在制度上是這樣子啊，現在開始你總辭了，請辭待命了，所以你現在來講的話，請聽好這句話喔，從現在到520正式舉手宣誓之前，你不能簽公文喔！"],["莊部長翠雲：向委員報告，我們的任期是到5月19日啊，520以後是……"],["賴委員士葆：你總辭了，不是嗎？你總辭了，請問你今天有簽字嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：今天有簽，有簽！"],["賴委員士葆：簽字了啊，生效了啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：有簽，但是應該還有不同的生效日期吧？"],["賴委員士葆：生效日期是什麼時候？"],["莊部長翠雲：就到5月19日啊！"],["賴委員士葆：所以你還是部長就對了？"],["莊部長翠雲：應該是啊！"],["賴委員士葆：所以稱呼你部長？"],["莊部長翠雲：有關稱呼，我想委員其實我們彼此都很尊重。"],["賴委員士葆：是啊，總辭是假的嗎？你今天總辭生效啊！說到519，這也是糊弄人家啊！老實講，我們選舉制度太有問題了，2月以後新的國會產生了，結果現在垃圾時間這麼長，一直到5月20日，有三個月半以上，這沒有道理啊！老實講，整個政務沒有辦法推，還好你是連任了。","繼續剛才李委員很關心的議題，我也很關心，你去亞銀之後，請問現在我們的名稱是什麼？"],["莊部長翠雲：Taipei, China。"],["賴委員士葆：Taipei, China！連我們去參加WHA的名稱「Chinese Taipei」都不如，Taipei, China就是正式把我們矮化為一個地方的城市而已，請問你有沒有正式抗議？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：有的，我們在理事年會都有表達強烈的抗議，第一個，我們告訴大會我們是正式的會員國，而且我們是創始會員國……"],["賴委員士葆：請問你有沒有提案？"],["莊部長翠雲：呃，提案的部分，我們基本上是在年會裡面表達……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有提案嗎？再怎麼樣，在WHA還是有邦交國提替我們提案，請問我們在亞銀，我們是創始國，有沒有友邦幫我們提案？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然到目前為止……"],["賴委員士葆：一個都沒有啊！你要知道可以去Google一下，你出國之前，社會大眾對你期待很高喔，希望你第一個要抗議，第二個要成案，要去fight一下，輸了沒有關係，表決輸也沒有關係，但是你連這個動作都沒有做，就是在糊弄大家。你說要去爭取權益，連個必也正名乎都沒有，我們最壞能夠接受的就是「Chinese Taipei」。「Chinese Taipei」是我們中華民國的臺北，你沒講……"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，當然這個部分，委員應該能夠理解，我們在國際處境上，我們要參與一個正式組織，然後實際的做交流跟合作，發揮我們的力量，以及我們臺灣對於國際社會的貢獻能夠展現出來，我覺得這就是最實質的交流。"],["賴委員士葆：「Taipei,Chinese」太離譜了啦！那這個政府就不要喊得那麼大聲，一天到晚要正名、正名，國際場合那個真槍實彈不是在這裡……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們還是要表達我們的立場跟態度，態度、立場依然是要表達的。"],["賴委員士葆：你講了老半天，就是連提案都沒有提案，這是你失職，你失職，好歹要有人幫你提案，你要去fight，輸了沒有關係，對不對？我們輸沒有關係，但是你要fight，你連fight都沒有fight，這個你失職！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們有強烈的爭取。"],["賴委員士葆：另外，現在是報稅季，我們看到現在為止，證交稅增加了134億，綜所稅增加了66億，牌照稅增加30億，房地合一稅增加52億，4個月加一加，今年最少稅收增加1,000億，最少增加1,000億，我這樣算法你同意嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：報告委員，因為整個報稅在5月跟6月的大筆稅款會進來，所以真正可以增加多少，可能要到7月以後會稍微明朗一點，那9月後還有數字。"],["賴委員士葆：用4月來推估啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：4月來推估的話……"],["賴委員士葆：我給你加一加的話就是250億左右。"],["莊部長翠雲：因為它占的比例，在我們整年的稅收裡面還不是占比最高的。"],["賴委員士葆：所以我低估啦，1,000億以上，又有超徵的……"],["莊部長翠雲：今年是因為證交稅確實是增加，因為證交稅我們在編預算的時候，是以日成交量3,500億來估的，現在因為都超過3,500億，所以證交稅的部分確實是有增加。"],["賴委員士葆：那這樣還反對證交稅調降嗎？調降再5年嘛，你們要反對嗎？讓你們稅收增加這麼多。"],["莊部長翠雲：因為到年底的時候，當沖降稅這個部分會要再做一個檢討，所以我們會再跟金管會就這個部分來做討論。"],["賴委員士葆：我跟你建議，有人說當沖都賠錢，不應該鼓勵他們，好，那這個就類似抽菸一樣啊，抽菸有害健康，但還是賣菸啦，所以賣菸時上面會寫抽菸有害健康，你要買自己負責，同樣你們就掛一個警語說當沖都賠錢，他自己要做當沖，他自己負責，這也是可以考慮的啊！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，瞭解。"],["賴委員士葆：而且稅收增加這麼多，我看今年的證交稅又可以增加1,000億，這樣算法可以增加1,000億。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員的意見我們會一併納入考慮。"],["賴委員士葆：我這種提議可以嗎？是善意的建言。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，委員的建議，我們會納入考慮。"],["賴委員士葆：類似抽菸的那個概念，當沖平均都賠錢，假如這個是真的。我現在正在跑這個資料，我是打一個問號？當沖是平均都賠錢，你們自己負責，對稅收有幫助，這不是兩全其美嗎？想一下。","我們再看一個東西，你們目前對於身心障礙者有特別扣除額20.7萬，慢性精神病的人有19.2萬人，其他疾病如癌症、先天性特殊疾病、燙傷等等，有重大傷病卡患者有104萬人之多，有沒有可能把其他的這些癌症也統統放進來？我算過稅損不會太多，大概了不起二、三十億，但是可以照顧這麼多領有重大傷病卡的患者，家屬負擔都很重的，你可以考慮嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分可能要審慎地來考量一下，其他的病症要包含到什麼？因為目前是對於有身心障礙者有特別扣除額，但其他的病症要到什麼樣的範圍以及是不是有必要，我們再來……"],["賴委員士葆：部長，你要知道癌症病患很多，我所瞭解，大醫院像臺大、榮總住房的三分之一是癌症病患，癌症的藥非常貴，很多是自費的，癌症應該納進來。"],["莊部長翠雲：是，但相關的醫療支出，在所得裡面已經扣除了。"],["賴委員士葆：你們如果對這事情都無動於衷，我來修法，對身心障礙者特別扣除額，我就增加為身心障礙者及重大疾病者，這樣子適用範圍就大了，我覺得這部分是應該要認真考慮的。","因為我時間到了，最後一個小問題也是很重要，臺美　經貿倡議承諾要避免雙重課稅一事，掌握進度怎麼樣？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，臺美經貿倡議裡面跟雙重課稅其實是兩件事，也就是臺美避免雙重課稅的法案在眾議院過了，目前在參議院的部分，外交部以及駐美代表處也持續的跟美方在溝通。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼時候可以過？"],["莊部長翠雲：時間上說真的有一點不太確定，為什麼？因為我們那個法案是包裹在……"],["賴委員士葆：今年底有沒有可能？"],["莊部長翠雲：今年底有沒有可能？我們希望今年底可以完成，為什麼？因為他們也有選舉的因素要考量。"],["賴委員士葆：選舉，它就會過，我認為會過啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是，我當然希望是。"],["賴委員士葆：那就今年年底，他們今年年底選舉啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["賴委員士葆：如果過的話，我們要不要修法？"],["莊部長翠雲：就法律的部分，我們……"],["賴委員士葆：我們要不要修法？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們不需要修，我們是透過雙方換文來確定，這樣我們就可以在國內生效。"],["賴委員士葆：換文確定，難道不要經過立法院嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分在相關的所得稅法還有稅捐稽徵法裡面都有授權規定了……"],["賴委員士葆：備查。"],["莊部長翠雲：都有授權規定……"],["賴委員士葆：就你們的行政命令……"],["莊部長翠雲：就可以完成了。"],["賴委員士葆：最後一個小問題，現在來講，像馬斯克的Starlink2021就開始了，就是境外電商要落地不落地等等，這個有沒有幫助，能夠避免雙重課稅？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分我是不是請我們國財司司長來做說明？"],["賴委員士葆：好，簡短，我時間到了。"],["丁司長碧蓮：基本上，我們租稅協定是解決所得稅的雙重課稅，所以如果這個業者或者是人民有在跨境間的雙重課稅問題的時候，租稅協定才會適用。"],["賴委員士葆：我就一句話，其實現在境外電商在臺灣是發展得非常的興盛，但是稅的問題一直是很多人關心的，這些基本上都接近逃稅，都不課稅的，你們課不到的，這個你們要想辦法，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員質詢。","接著請洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員、洪孟楷委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","陳亭妃委員、陳亭妃委員、陳亭妃委員不在。","接著請羅明才委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":350,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-12","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","顏寬恒","吳秉叡","賴惠員","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王世堅","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","李彥秀","賴士葆","羅明才"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-16"],"gazette_id":"1134602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「海關進口稅則部分稅則修正草案」案（後接第三冊）","agenda_id":"1134602_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":3.99659375,"end":5.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":6.37596875,"end":9.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.41346875,"end":10.071593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":14.324093750000003,"end":14.84721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.134093750000002,"end":15.977843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.602218750000002,"end":19.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":19.99409375,"end":21.68159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.559093750000002,"end":23.031593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.031593750000003,"end":23.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.58846875,"end":23.60534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.80346875,"end":27.840968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.84534375,"end":27.824093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.840968750000002,"end":28.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.02659375,"end":28.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.06034375,"end":28.07721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.07721875,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.11096875,"end":28.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.16159375,"end":28.937843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.05596875,"end":29.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":29.07284375,"end":30.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.148468750000003,"end":34.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":34.962218750000005,"end":36.548468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":36.548468750000005,"end":36.68346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":36.68346875,"end":37.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.03784375,"end":37.84784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.45971875,"end":40.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":40.49721875,"end"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你說我要去爭取權益連畢業證明服我們最少能夠接受的權益是台幣"},{"start":232.635,"end":238.5,"text":"呃跟委員報告齁當然這個部分齁我們的呃應該理解我們的國在國際處境上我們在一個正式組織裡面參與然後實際的做交流跟合作發揮我們的一個力量以及對於我們台灣對社會國際社會的貢獻能夠展現出來我覺得這是更實質的交流"},{"start":260.417,"end":288.302,"text":"國際場合那個真槍實彈不是在這裡但是我們還是要表達我們的立場跟態度態度跟立場依然是要表達的你講老半天就是提案都沒有提案部長你失職你失職你好歹要有人幫你提案然後去fight輸沒有關係對不對我們輸沒有關係但是要fight你連fight都沒有fight這個你失職我們在看了來現在報稅季"},{"start":290.629,"end":310.792,"text":"我們看到到現在為止,政交稅增加了134億,總索稅增加了66億,牌照稅增加30億,黃幣合一稅增加了52億,四個月加一加,今年最少稅收增加1000億,最少增加1000億,我這樣算法你同意嗎?"},{"start":312.657,"end":338.464,"text":"因為整個報稅在5月跟6月的大筆稅款會進來所以真正可以增加多少可能要到7月以後會稍微明朗一點那9月還有數字用4月來推估啊4月來推估的話我跟你加一加的話就是250億左右因為它佔的比例還比較在我們整年的稅收裡面不是大還不是佔比比較高的我低估啦1000億以上又超震的"},{"start":340.185,"end":359.6,"text":"那今年的因為徵交稅增加的確實是因為我們徵交稅我們在編預算的時候是日成交量是3500億來估的那現在因為都超過3500億所以徵交稅的部分是有確實有增加徵交稅條件是5年嗎你沒有反對嗎他不讓你們稅收增加這麼多"},{"start":361.817,"end":378.915,"text":"這個部分因為到年底的時候當沖降稅這個部分會要再做一個檢討所以我們會再跟金管會這個部分來做一個檢討我給你建議啦我給你建議那是那個你現在說噢有人說這個當沖都那麼了不起喔不應該鼓勵他們好"},{"start":380.16,"end":407.658,"text":"那這個就類似臭煙一樣啊臭煙有害健康但是還是賣煙啊所以在賣煙裡面上面寫一個臭煙有害健康你要買自己同樣你們就花一個金魚說當中容量錢他要當中他自己付準這個是可以考慮的啊是 了解委員所以說增加這麼多我看這個今年的增加稅又可以增加一千億喔按這樣算法可以增加一千億喔增加這麼多"},{"start":409.515,"end":436.775,"text":"我想委員的意見我們會一併納入考慮我這個提議可以嗎?因為 善例的建言說這個類似草菸的那個概念說當初平均都了解假如這個是真的我現在正在跑這個資料我是打一個問號當初是平均都了解按你們自己負責"},{"start":438.597,"end":452.103,"text":"對稅收有幫助這不是兩全其名嗎?想一下喔來我們再看一個東西喔你們目前啊對於身心障礙者有特別扣除了20.7萬"},{"start":455.094,"end":458.015,"text":"賴士葆 賴士葆 賴士葆 賴士葆 賴士葆 賴士葆 賴士葆 賴"},{"start":475.064,"end":484.812,"text":"我算過稅損不會太多大概留不起二三十億但是可以照顧這麼多重大的傷病卡的患者加速負擔都很重的啦"},{"start":490.812,"end":494.656,"text":"你可以考慮嗎?你要知道家裡有多少癌症也有癌症很多"},{"start":511.614,"end":532.172,"text":"我所了解大的醫院像台大龍總那個住房的三分之一是癌症的那個癌症的藥非常貴很多是自費的癌症應該納進來但是相關的醫療支出其實在所得裏面是透出的如果對這個事情無動於衷我來修法"},{"start":532.97,"end":555.632,"text":"把這個啊 這個身心障礙者特別扣除了我就加一個身心障礙者及重大疾病者這樣子 使用範圍就大了我覺得這部分是應該認真考慮的最後一個 因為我時間到了最後一個小問題喔 也是很重要台美經濟倡議台大要避免雙重課稅掌握進度怎麼樣"},{"start":556.75,"end":557.09,"text":"今天底可能嗎?今天底?"},{"start":582.728,"end":608.852,"text":"今年底有沒有可能我們希望我們希望今年底可以完成為什麼因為他們也有選舉的因素要表亮選舉他就會過了我認為會過了是那我當然希望那就今年年底啦他選舉今年年底選啊是如果過的話我們要不要修法就法律的部分我們要不要修法我們不需要修我們是透過雙方範文來確定那這樣我們就可以玩在國內就受效範文確定難道不要經過立法院嗎"},{"start":610.092,"end":636.759,"text":"這個部分在相關的《稅則稅法》還有《稅捐基金法》裡面都有授權規定了就你們的行政命令就可以完成法律完成了這個現在來講像馬斯克的STAR LINK2021就開始來這個就是外面境外電商啊很多地方要落地不落地等等這個有沒有幫助啊如果能夠避免雙重課稅"},{"start":639.316,"end":650.101,"text":"這個部分我是不是請我們國財司司長來做說明?因為基本上我們租稅協定是解決雙重課稅所得稅的雙重課稅所以如果這個業者或者是人民有在我們跨境間的雙重課稅的問題的時候租稅協定才會使用"},{"start":667.291,"end":667.611,"text":"謝謝委員指教"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}