{"error":false,"id":["152683"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152683,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152683","日期":"2024-05-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-20T10:36:08+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-20T10:44:37+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/eb839dd47e69d5833ba5822f5fccbea4ccf986ae542d7286b17e17f29c54f7e1c7dd2f281fdf83155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"10:36:08 - 10:44:37","會議時間":"2024-05-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部、國家運輸安全調查委員會及經濟部就「我國汽車自動駕駛系統與電動大客車之產業前景、法規建置、安全風險及發展現況」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":413,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（10時36分）謝謝主席。本席請陳政次還有經濟部的連署長。"],["主席：有請次長、署長。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：次長好。本席想要請教次長跟署長，從108年到現到，我們的無人自駕車相關經費，交通部跟經濟部分別投入多少？交通部。"],["陳次長彥伯：我手頭上沒有這些資料，可能要會後再提供給委員。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以都不知道？這麼多年來，有關無人自駕，因為今天請你們來報告，我們就很想看，在交通部的報告裡有講到有補助，然後有支援沙盒計畫，但是都沒有講到……"],["陳次長彥伯：我跟委員報告一下，在自駕的部分，尤其是沙盒實驗裡面，我們大概是補助路側的設施或車輛的OBU等等。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，那經費大概是多少？"],["陳次長彥伯：在ITS計畫裡面嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，ITS計畫，所以經費不敢講？那我們請經濟部。"],["連署長錦漳：1年差不多有1.5億在做研發部分。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我是說這麼多年來，你大概補助了多少？109年到113年，經濟部，十幾億啊，本席手上的資料。"],["連署長錦漳：沒有、沒有、沒有，我們1年有1.6億經費，是廠商有來申請才有，我們現在補助了6個案子，應該差不多在2億左右。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我請教現在無人自駕在世界各國投入比我們更多的預算，有成功嗎？目前都還沒有嘛？都沒有成功，而且本席手上的資料，我就看到美國的Cruise無人計程車全國暫停營運，因為發生太多的事故、太多的問題。","剛好本席有到對岸，有看到他們小米汽車無人自駕區的整個實驗區，我發現這個如果真的要做，政府要很有決心，而且要投入全力來支持，包括我們交通部一直在進行的法規方面，還有整個測試需要的花費很大，本席的立場是覺得我們臺灣已經落後，就是比人家起步慢而且落後，還有我們真心想投入的決心也不夠。所以我感覺我們投入的錢都像剛剛黃國昌委員說的，「打水漂」，不然我覺得你們就是做公關而已，因為你真的要做，你就要有決心，就是要做成，你要投入的資源絕對不是像你現在這樣，你現在投入不多不少，但實際上那個錢對我們來說，我覺得已經很多，可是你根本很難有成功的機會。這部分我看到過去第9屆、第10屆也很多委員有提到說不希望投入太多，所以你們的決策一定要明確，今天你根本不太可能……你做得不上不下，等於沒有做，但是你浪費了多少公帑，這個是本席今天質詢的重點。","再來，因為我時間有限，請署長回座，接下來我想請教次長。次長，大海嘯或者是很強力的水柱對人是會有傷害的，但是一滴、兩滴的水對人來說，大家都不擔心，因為才一滴、兩滴，但卻有滴水穿石這種事情，我要強調的是什麼？我要強調滴水是很小的力量，可是它持續性，所以它可以穿石，因此本席要針對交通部隔音牆的部分，現在很多地區需要隔音牆，你們設定80分貝，本席要強調的是，沒錯，如果是幾秒鐘甚至1分鐘、2分鐘，80分貝以上對人會產生很大的問題，但是長期呢？對於很多的住戶，他長期睡眠的時間，所以本席要強調為什麼我舉滴水穿石，就算它的力道沒有到達你的分貝數，但是它continuous長期持續不斷，它就是一個傷害力。","我再舉一個例子，我們肩上揹10公斤、8公斤，對我們來說沒什麼，對不對？但是如果要我揹100公斤，我大概就骨折了，可是我10公斤持續揹一年都沒有停的話，我身體就變形了，所以人長期暴露在這種噪音之下，雖然它只有70分貝、七十幾分貝，你們要80分貝才能做隔音牆，其實對民眾造成非常大的問題。","所以今天本席在這裡質詢是要請交通部就這個部分你們要改變，而且要重視，再加上我相信大家知道現在社會變遷，這種憂鬱症各方面，還有大家對聲音的忍受度都變弱了，今天因為時間短，本席在這邊簡單的講，但是我們希望交通部針對隔音牆，你要幾分貝，還有你要看地區的狀況，我們要做改善，要來改善民眾這種長期因為交通的聲音而影響睡眠、影響生活品質的問題，這部分可不可以請部長未來我們來研擬、我們來改善？"],["陳次長彥伯：委員提到這個，我們來跟環保署討論一下，因為這種相關的噪音檢測等等標準是由環保署訂定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是隔音牆是你們補助的……"],["陳次長彥伯：是，沒有錯，隔音牆為什麼需要有一定的標準在……"],["徐委員欣瑩：當然啊！我剛剛就是一直強調你那個標準，你說是環保……"],["陳次長彥伯：對，環境部的，所以……"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是你補助要依據那個標準嘛？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以那個標準要降，你補助的……"],["陳次長彥伯：所以我才會提到說我們來跟環保署討論一下那個標準該如何來檢討，是不是針對不同的……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，因為經費是你們的，所以由你們來主導去談……"],["陳次長彥伯：可以，沒有問題，我們來跟它聯繫一下看怎麼樣，就是不是有區域的問題，是不是有哪邊要有特殊的考量，我們再來跟環保署討論一下。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，本席最後一個議題，我們整個台61線西濱快速道路，新竹鳳鼻到香山段只剩10公里一直還沒有高架，我們交通部有沒有規劃？應該要儘快補足10公里這一段，他們那邊假日跟平時都塞車塞得很厲害，我相信你們也有掌握這個情況。"],["陳局長文瑞：有，所以有相關的……包括鳳鼻到香山這一個，我們的綜合規劃現在其實也正在處理，還有沿線，新竹、苗栗有一些平交路口的，我們現在也有相關的建設計畫要推動。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以會積極來推動嘛？"],["陳局長文瑞：會。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝次長。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員。現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時44分）","繼續開會（10時54分）"],["主席（黃委員健豪代）：現在繼續開會。","請羅廷瑋委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":336,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-13","speakers":["陳雪生","林沛祥","廖先翔","萬美玲","黃健豪","鄭天財Sra 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這個大海 或者是很強力的水柱對人是會有傷害的但是一滴兩滴的水對人來說 大家都不擔心一滴兩滴 但是卻有滴水穿石"},{"start":268.815,"end":284.989,"text":"好,這種事情那我要強調的是什麼我要強調的是你這個滴水它很小的力量可是它持續性它可以穿石所以本席要針對我們交通部隔音牆的部分"},{"start":285.789,"end":290.23,"text":"現在很多地區需要隔音牆,你們設定80分貝,那本席就要強調的是,沒錯,如果是幾秒鐘,或者是甚至一分鐘兩分鐘,你80分貝以上,對人產生很大的問題。"},{"start":304.614,"end":330.625,"text":"但是長期對於很多的住戶長期他睡眠的時間所以本席要強調的為什麼我舉低水穿石就算他力道很沒有到達你的分貝數但是他continuous他長期持續不斷他就是一個傷害力我再舉一個例子我們肩上我們肩上背10公斤8公斤對我們來說沒什麼"},{"start":331.886,"end":343.3,"text":"對不對但是如果要我背100公斤我大概我就骨折了可是我10公斤的我持續背一年都沒有停的話我身體就變形了"},{"start":344.235,"end":367.478,"text":"所以我們人暴露在這種長期噪音之下雖然它只有70分貝70幾分貝你們要80分貝才能做隔音牆那其實對民眾造成非常大的問題所以今天本席在這裡諮詢是要請交通部這個部分你們要改變而且要重視再加上我相信大家知道現在社會變遷"},{"start":370,"end":390.335,"text":"這種憂鬱症各方面還有大家對聲音的這種忍受度都變弱了對聲音的忍受度都變弱了所以今天因為時間短本席在這邊簡單的講但是我們希望交通部針對隔音牆你要幾分貝還有你要看地區狀況的情況"},{"start":392.236,"end":410.054,"text":"我們要做改善那要來改善我們民眾這種長期被因為交通的這個聲音影響睡眠影響生活品質的問題這部分可不可以請部長可不可以未來我們來研擬我們來改善"},{"start":411.749,"end":419.573,"text":"提到這個我們來跟環保署來討論一下因為相關的這種噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢噢"},{"start":440.225,"end":442.187,"text":"本席最後一個議題就是說我們整個台61線西濱快速道路"},{"start":468.612,"end":468.892,"text":"有有有"},{"start":485.422,"end":485.522,"text":"徐欣瑩委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}