{"error":false,"id":["152749"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152749,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152749","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T09:36:16+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T09:46:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9de720e719829bf81f3a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d201718ac8d8ac15e50755ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"09:36:16 - 09:46:22","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","gazette":{"lineno":263,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（9時36分）主席，我的提案還是要簡短地說明一下……"],["主席：現在已經過了提案說明的時間了，你就直接詢答啦，我再多給你兩分鐘好不好？"],["邱委員志偉：好啦。"],["主席：好啦，就直接開始吧！"],["邱委員志偉：針對今天3個條文的修正，先請國發會、請勞動部、請衛福部。"],["主席：請國發會、請勞動部、請衛福部。"],["邱委員志偉：其實我的修法是配合入出國移民法在112年的修正，修正之後，我們原來的第十二條第三項至第五項就沒有必要重複存在，所以我的修法就是第三項至第五項把它拿掉、取消，回歸到入出國移民法相關規定，這國發會應該同意吧？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，完全同意。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝！另外有關於羅委員的提案，針對有學士學位或者副學士學位取得技術人員資格的部分，如果修法的話，我請教一下勞動部，會增加多少有效的約聘許可人次，你有沒有估計一下？勞動部。"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是，這個部分我們目前應該沒有相關的推估資料……"],["邱委員志偉：如果放寬到副學士，那麼你們會增加多少？誘因夠不夠？我時間寶貴，你的立場怎麼樣？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：目前副學士人數不是很多。"],["邱委員志偉：對啦！如果學士呢？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：學士的話，目前全國一年畢業生大概27萬人。"],["邱委員志偉：不是啦，我是說外國的嘛！"],["陳主任秘書世昌：僑外生一年的畢業生是1.2萬人左右。"],["邱委員志偉：對於羅委員的提案你支不支持？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：原則上支持。"],["邱委員志偉：還有原則，原則也有例外，好，原則上支持，那麼我問一下馬偕計畫，衛福部。"],["吳副司長希文：是，委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：如果按照王定宇委員的提案，你們認為會增加預算支出，我覺得這個有誘因啊！很必要，你從外國要留才、攬才，這個誘因一定要存在，國發會也應該很支持。你站在財務支出的角度有你們的本位思考，如果財務支出不會造成國家財政負擔，我覺得應該要支持啦！所以這部分，如果修法通過之後，跟你所謂馬偕計畫把它放寬，哪一個會比較好？我希望你們做出一個評估報告。"],["吳副司長希文：是，關於這個部分……"],["邱委員志偉：你覺得馬偕計畫如果調整要怎麼調整？"],["吳副司長希文：報告委員，因為目前馬偕計畫它是要在臺居住20年，然後每年183天……"],["邱委員志偉：而且它條件門檻很高喔？"],["吳副司長希文：對，還要有特殊貢獻。"],["邱委員志偉：所以符合馬偕計畫而取得居留證的大概多少人？"],["吳副司長希文：目前340人有取得馬偕計畫。"],["邱委員志偉：對嘛！你們門檻太高，所以你跟現在外國留才攬才的誘因是沒有辦法銜接上，對不對？你誘因要增加，這些外國的專業人才才願意來臺灣，包括本人、配偶、子女，能夠有相關的醫療服務的話，這樣誘因會很強，如果你覺得修法會影響你們的財政支出，那你們必須把馬偕計畫做相關的調整，是不是一個月之內，把修法或者降低馬偕計畫門檻的利弊評估，做一個分析，可以嗎？"],["吳副司長希文：是，那我們再做一個評估。"],["邱委員志偉：一個月之內，好不好？衛福部在一個月之內……"],["吳副司長希文：是，我們再做一個評估分析。"],["邱委員志偉：提一個比較分析報告，就是這兩個方案提出一個報告，這樣我們才知道到底修法好，還是調整馬偕計畫好？"],["吳副司長希文：好，謝謝委員。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，請問國發會高副主委，Talent Taiwan在臺北有設點，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["邱委員志偉：南部也要設點……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["邱委員志偉：南部設點在哪裡最好，你知道嗎？不是在賴瑞隆那裡，在我那邊比較好，賴瑞隆那邊沒有太多腹地，我那邊腹地比較多，有橋頭科學園區，又有捷運，各方面都非常好，是未來高雄市發展的重點區，所以人才招募的部分應該南北平衡；南北要平衡，北高雄是首選，副主委，你的意見怎麼樣？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：後續我們可以進行相關評估……"],["邱委員志偉：後續？不是，立即啟動評估，好不好？立即啟動評估。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，我們會評估。"],["邱委員志偉：地點我都幫你找好了，橋頭科學園區以後會設一些行政中心，那邊就可以設一個Talent Taiwan的高雄據點。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，因為我們Talent Taiwan還涉及相關經費的編列等等，就像委員說的，將來臺灣也是……"],["邱委員志偉：我們那些都是國際大廠欸！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，我知道，我知道……"],["邱委員志偉：我們那邊都是國際大廠，台積電什麼……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，南臺灣真的也是很多半導體S廊帶中心。"],["邱委員志偉：對，橋頭都是國際大廠，S廊帶中心啦！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["邱委員志偉：所以這部分的國際人才諮詢服務很重要，怎麼樣全球攬才，你要跨部會的資源，所以這個……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員，是不是容許讓我們做一下評估再……"],["邱委員志偉：三個月之內，把據點評估好……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["邱委員志偉：北高雄據點評估好。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，請教勞動部，直聘中心的幾個點都在臺北、新竹……"],["陳主任秘書世昌：目前臺北一個，另外……"],["邱委員志偉：你們都是南北失衡啊！"],["陳主任秘書世昌：據點擴充的部分，我們可以再評估。"],["邱委員志偉：立刻評估。"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是。"],["邱委員志偉：一個月之內把北高雄的地點評估出來，為什麼？因為直聘中心是有關移工需求、移工留才的，我們那邊很多傳統產業金屬扣件，或者是高科技產業都缺工，需要很多移工，所以直聘中心的設立非常重要，這個地點我也幫你找好了，也在橋科，或者是未來的產業科學園區，北高雄產業園區或橋頭科學園區，你可以在這兩個地方找一個點，這兩個地點都是在北高雄，所以立即啟動直聘中心的設置計畫，是不是能一個月之內提出相關評估報告？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：委員，我們一個月之內提出在南部這邊設置直聘中心的可行性評估。"],["邱委員志偉：不，不，我就已經跟你講好了，南北失衡，所以我就告訴你重點，為什麼要設在北高雄？我都已經講清楚了，好不好？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：我們在南部這邊的評估，一個月之內提供給委員，謝謝。"],["邱委員志偉：南部的高雄啦！另外，就服法有關移工政策的目標跟方向，這也是你們管的？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你看日本以前對外籍移工是非常保守的，現在考慮到未來少子化、高齡化的人力需求，他們的觀念大轉彎，突破過去的思維，現在包括那邊的便利超商，包括他們的旅宿業，都是外國移工，不管是留學的或者是聘用的移工，因為欠缺的勞動力太多了。我們的少子化、高齡化問題不會輸給日本，所以你應該要大開大闔，要有更創新的思維，不要太保守，針對就服法有關移工的政策目標，你要做一些調整，你的想法怎麼樣？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：跟委員報告，現在的人口結構確實有一些改變，所以我們對於移工政策也開始朝向參考日本對於實習生以及中階人力的引進，做一些彈性上的調整，所以臺灣在過去這兩年，針對中階人力也有一些鬆綁跟擴充的情形，這個部分我們跟日本的作法是接近的。"],["邱委員志偉：你們三十年前所設定的移工目標是暫時性、補充性的，所以用管制、限制的作法制定這個辦法，現在移工已經顯示為必要的人力，日本就是考慮到這點，有這樣的思維，所以整個政策思維、政策目標都作了調整，如果是必要人力，就應該要有不同思維、不同作法去聘僱，請問，我們的移工政策目標跟方向什麼時候可以調整？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：這個部分，其實在實務上，我們已經針對可以進用移工的雇主資格、業別部分，作一些原則上的放寬跟調整，這個部分我們會持續滾動檢討，基本上還是配合產業的發展和需求。"],["邱委員志偉：不是滾動檢討，整個上位的政策目標跟方向要調整，你覺得現在的移工是必要人力，還是補充人力？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：這個部分我們衡酌產業的需求，不再特別強調他是補充性人力。"],["邱委員志偉：你把這個部分做一個全盤的盤點，我希望你們要把缺工問題視為國安問題，一旦缺工，百工百業都沒有辦法生產，也就沒有辦法提供產業相關的產值，這是非常嚴重的國安問題，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝邱志偉委員。","接下來請楊瓊瓔委員發言，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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案。」案。議員王定宇等19人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案 案。」案。議員王定宇等19人擬具:「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案 案。」"},{"start":268.018,"end":268.558,"text":"則不予審查：邱志偉"},{"start":293.752,"end":293.792,"text":"邱志偉"},{"start":314.324,"end":341.407,"text":"對,因為我們特任的臺灣還有涉及相關經費的編列等等的,那就像委員說的,我們將來臺灣也是...對,我知道,我知道,臺灣真的也是很多半導體S狼帶等等。所以這部分國際人才的諮詢服務很重要。怎麼樣全球攬才,你要跨部位的諮詢,所以這個...是不是容許委員讓我們做一下評估在...三個月之內。"},{"start":342.668,"end":344.79,"text":"邱志偉 具點擴充的部分我們可以再評估。"},{"start":365.987,"end":366.227,"text":"議員邱志偉"},{"start":392.586,"end":392.766,"text":"﹚邱志偉"},{"start":408.151,"end":431.367,"text":"這兩個地點都是在北高雄。所以這個立即啟動殖民中心的這個設置計畫。一個月之內是不是提出相關的評估?委員我們一個月之內提出在南部這邊設置殖民中心的可行性的評估。我就跟你講,已經就講好了。南北失衡。那重點我就告訴你為什麼要設在北高雄。我已經講清楚了。"},{"start":432.348,"end":455.933,"text":"我們在南部這邊的評估一個月之內提供給委員,謝謝。南部的高雄。那救護法,這個移工的政策、目標跟方向,這個也是你們管的吼。是。這個部分,這個你看日本以前這個對這個外籍移工是非常保守。"},{"start":456.792,"end":456.852,"text":"邱志偉"},{"start":487.333,"end":499.05,"text":"所以你應該要大開大合,要有更創新的思維,不要太保守。所以這部分,你的救法移工政策目標你要做一些調整。"},{"start":500.855,"end":526.217,"text":"這個你的想法怎麼樣?這個淑敏跟委員報告因為現在人口結構確實有一些改變那所以我們對於移工政策也開始朝向參考日本對於實習生以及中階的一個人力的引進做一些彈性上的調整所以台灣在過去這兩年也針對中階人力有一些鬆綁跟擴充的一個情形這個部分我們跟日本的做法是接近的所以你那個30年前所設定的移工的這個目標是暫時性補充性"},{"start":527.498,"end":548.009,"text":"你用管制限制的做法來制定這個辦法對不對你現在已經顯示說這個移工已經成為必要的人力日本就是考慮到這個日本就是有這種思維所以你整個政策思維政策目標你要調整如果是必要的人力你就應該要有不同的思維不同的做法去去聘僱"},{"start":549.147,"end":570.706,"text":"所以這個部分你這個移工的政策目標跟方向是什麼時候可以調整?這個部分我們其實在實務上已經針對包括那個可以禁用移工的僱主的資格業表部分已經做一些原則上的一些方向跟調整這個部分會持續來做滾動檢討基本上它是配合產業的一個發展的一個需求整個上位的政策目標跟方向你要做調整"},{"start":571.55,"end":572.05,"text":"邱志偉議員邱志偉議員"},{"start":593.012,"end":593.072,"text":"邱志偉"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}