{"error":false,"id":["152773"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152773,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152773","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-24","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":24,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T10:11:40+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T10:23:08+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:28","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d3eb22db9522be56e42979da188194bea3b43bbf2d64d2017ff2541df1b7df3cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"傅崐萁","委員發言時間":"10:11:40 - 10:23:08","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":834,"blocks":[["傅委員崐萁：（10時11分）主席，請部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["傅委員崐萁：部長早，恭喜你，賴清德的大將。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。"],["傅委員崐萁：當時在……是不是傳聞啦，本席還沒有查證清楚，賴清德在臺南有一個類似街頭的車輛糾紛，當時有一些衝突，然後承辦檢察官是哪一位？"],["鄭部長銘謙：承辦是我本人。"],["傅委員崐萁：你本人嘛，那當時是打架還是被打？"],["鄭部長銘謙：他是被打。"],["傅委員崐萁：被打？情況有多嚴重？"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個滿嚴重的，事實上那是一個，就是有三部機車逆向行駛，差一點……"],["傅委員崐萁：差一點撞到賴清德？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，那時候應該是賴委員嘛，那時候他有跟他們講說你們這個是逆向，結果……"],["傅委員崐萁：他有沒有罵三字經？"],["鄭部長銘謙：不可能罵三字經，他修養那麼好，不可能……"],["傅委員崐萁：修養很好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，他是一個很嚴肅的立法委員。"],["傅委員崐萁：我認識賴清德很久，不像你講的修養這麼好耶，我們跟他同事很久了，他非常自負。那最後你是以重傷害來究責，是嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：重傷害未遂。"],["傅委員崐萁：殺人未遂？重傷害未遂？"],["鄭部長銘謙：重傷。"],["傅委員崐萁：重傷未遂，求刑多少？"],["鄭部長銘謙：求刑四年多。"],["傅委員崐萁：求刑四年多。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為那個眼睛受傷滿嚴重的。"],["傅委員崐萁：因為我現在看他都還是很帥，謝謝，我想部長你的發跡過程這樣我們就瞭解了。","另外就是我們先瞭解一下，因為您接任部長，我們來看一下司法的可信度，山水民調在去年做民眾對所謂司法改革的滿意度調查，現在發現對於司法改革，民進黨這四年來的司法改革，這個數字還不錯啦，滿意度有三成，哇，這個對民進黨執政來講，民進黨執政裡面有30%算是高滿意度，48.1%不滿意。再過來，對於是否公正，大概認為公正的有34.9%，不公正的有55.5%，請問一下部長，對這個數字有什麼感想沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我對這個數據的取樣，我是不清楚啦。"],["傅委員崐萁：去年公布到現在已經吵了一段時間了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我不清楚，但我想任何的數據都是一個……"],["傅委員崐萁：這是民間司改所提出來的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，這是一個可以參考的啦。"],["傅委員崐萁：可以參考？既然要參考的話，就應該要提升人民對司法的信任度嘛。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想我們對司改的努力，這個是永不停歇啦。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，再看下一張，這個是比較嚴重的，調查的問題是「檢察官是否受政治力影響」？八成五的民眾認為檢察官辦案的時候會受到政治力的影響，這個數字就是本席特別對民進黨執政，光是最近這4年，從112年往前推算4年，民眾有85%認為檢察官在辦案過程中受到政治力的高度干擾；認為不會的，包括可能不會與一定不會，一定不會的只有1趴多啦，全國民眾認為一定不會的只有1趴多，可能不會跟一定不會的加起來總共9趴。這個資料就擺在那裡，對於這樣的數據結果，我想就是「有則改之，無則加勉」啦！這個民調不是立法院做的，也不是在野黨做的，這是很清楚公布在那裡的資料。部長，我覺得接下來要做的是要如何讓人民感受到檢察官是確實公正辦案，有沒有信心？"],["鄭部長銘謙：摘奸發伏是檢察官的職責，公正辦案也是，我想這部分……"],["傅委員崐萁：反正520就職了，部長，接著我們就要看您的成績單了，因為這個民調每一年都會做。另外要請問部長，檢察事務官為什麼到現在還補不齊啊？"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察事務官我們現在一直在補啊，像我們……"],["傅委員崐萁：還有多少缺額？"],["鄭部長銘謙：檢察事務官的缺額……"],["傅委員崐萁：六百多？"],["鄭部長銘謙：缺額一百多。"],["傅委員崐萁：現在補到剩一百多？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，一百多。"],["傅委員崐萁：多少？請次長說明，黃次長是比較專業啦！"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，我們現在檢事官的員額大概832個人，目前大概有六百十幾個現額，缺額還有一百多人，還在招考中。"],["傅委員崐萁：這一百多人要不要把他補滿？"],["黃次長謀信：像我們明年就招考120個。"],["傅委員崐萁：檢察事務官儘快補足，好不好？"],["黃次長謀信：對。"],["傅委員崐萁：檢察事務官補足以後，對於整個偵查品質還不足的話，我們再來討論檢察官助理的問題，我們一步一步來做，好不好？"],["黃次長謀信：報告委員，還是請支持它，這並行不悖啦，檢察官助理跟檢察事務官……"],["傅委員崐萁：並行不悖喔？"],["黃次長謀信：並行不悖，它是並行不悖的。"],["傅委員崐萁：你們這樣一提出來，司法院也馬上趁機過水說他們也要法官助理啊，法官怎麼會要助理，本席實在聽不懂耶。"],["黃次長謀信：現在已經有法官助理了。"],["傅委員崐萁：秉持聽訟中立，怎麼會現在變成法官要來當檢察官的助理啊！幫檢察官來補這個資料的不足，代為蒐證。"],["黃次長謀信：委員，你講檢察官助理嗎？"],["傅委員崐萁：法官是聽訟，要秉持公正中立的原則，而不是自己把自己來當檢察官的助理，所以這個案子一提出來，司法院馬上就會要求他們也要法官助理，所以本席……"],["黃次長謀信：他們現在已經有法官助理了。"],["傅委員崐萁：他們還要擴編……"],["鄭部長銘謙：本來就有法官助理了。"],["傅委員崐萁：他們還要擴編，要擴編員額，已經到立法院來要名額了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這個檢察官助理是有效可以減少檢察官的一個工作負擔，我想這是一個整體的考量，這一點請委員能夠支持。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席並沒有反對，現在是說先把事務官補齊嘛，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：另外，臺中捷運上又發生隨機殺人事件，請教一下，對於廢死，您的看法如何？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想法務部的立場都是……"],["傅委員崐萁：部長，部長，您的立場，不是法務部的立場。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我在這邊不能談我個人的立場，我只能談……"],["傅委員崐萁：為什麼不能談個人立場？部長是政務官……"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，我只能談我們……"],["傅委員崐萁：政務官對於政策要講清楚。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是法務部的立場，那個立場，我想我們都是在憲法法庭……"],["傅委員崐萁：釋憲是另外一件事情嘛！一個政務官要有政務官的風骨嘛！你身為部長，你當了政務官當然要有你的態度嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們法務部認為這個就是合憲，死刑本來就是合憲，我既然當法務部長，就是要有這個政策……"],["傅委員崐萁：對嘛！腰桿要挺直嘛！未來你們下面的檢察官，治安不好，都跟部長的態度有關係嘛，對不對？如果你們去支持廢死，還是承奉上意，以後不得了啊，案子永遠辦不完啊，而且越來越兇，社會治安怎麼辦？司法是社會最後一道正義的防線嘛，當然你們檢察官的腰桿要挺直嘛！部長是承擔所有的政治責任，你要讓下面所有的檢察官能夠有所適從嘛！我們都支持法務部，但你們的腰桿自己要挺直啊！","另外，我延續一下剛剛謝龍介委員所講的，賴清德總統前天的宣示提到黑金、槍、毒，獨獨漏掉官商勾結、貪贓枉法，本席對於臺南這個88槍，然後再10槍在當街槍殺，就是為了綠能相關的不法利益，我希望臺南啊，您出身自臺南，擔任過檢察長，先把臺南的問題處理得乾淨一點，有沒有信心？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個本來就是……"],["傅委員崐萁：有沒有信心？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們會全力……"],["傅委員崐萁：有沒有信心？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們會全力來做。"],["傅委員崐萁：有沒有信心嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我們當然要全力來做，這樣就會建立民眾對我們的一個信任。"],["傅委員崐萁：好。最後再請教一下，林姿妙縣長被起訴，那時候您在哪裡？"],["鄭部長銘謙：起訴那時候我已經離開廉政署了。"],["傅委員崐萁：喔，所以資料蒐集的時候有參與嘛，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，偵辦的時候我有在。"],["傅委員崐萁：偵辦的時候你有參與，那高虹安市長的案子呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：高虹安是我在北檢檢察長的時候起訴的。"],["傅委員崐萁：因為大家都不聽柯建銘的，沒有起訴，所以最後您到了北檢就起訴了？"],["鄭部長銘謙：應該不是這樣，因為證據蒐證齊全……"],["傅委員崐萁：應該不是？沒有關係，你有回答就好了。那楊文科縣長呢？"],["鄭部長銘謙：楊文科的部分我沒有參與過……"],["傅委員崐萁：這件沒有參與？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["傅委員崐萁：其他有參與？好。","我們要再一次表達，司法如同皇后的貞操，如果我們檢察官、如果我們司法要揣摩上意來辦案，我想是沒有辦法得到人民的支持跟掌聲。在這裡也要請部長，您來的過程當中，你跟前幾任的部長相比，在資歷上可能沒有像他們這麼完備，尤其在北檢短短一年就接任部長，這是屬於天賦異稟級的，部長未來的成績大家都在看，所以我們希望部長能夠摒棄政治的干擾。本席在這裡預報一下，本席在擔任縣長的時候，蔡英文就職以後，就有執政黨的秘書長來跟我談要怎麼樣處理我的司法案件，本席先在這裡跟您預報一下，還可以交換的，本席是嚴正拒絕，在這裡先預報一下。"],["主席：謝謝傅總召，謝謝鄭部長。","因為羅委員在場，剛剛的宣告更正為羅委員質詢完畢後休息。","接下來請邱委員志偉，邱志偉，邱志偉委員不在。","請羅委員智強質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-24","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","林思銘","謝龍介","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","羅智強","林德福","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","翁曉玲","陳冠廷"],"page_start":77,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134901_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.016593750000002,"end":13.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.63221875,"end":15.032843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.78346875,"end":18.610343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.032218750000002,"end":23.95971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.46221875,"end":21.563468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.68159375,"end":21.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":24.97221875,"end":26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代為修正委員你講檢察官助理嗎"},{"start":381.202,"end":391.777,"text":"法官是聽受要秉持公正中立的原則而不是自己把自己來當檢察官的助理所以"},{"start":393.098,"end":417.794,"text":"這個案子一提出來司法院馬上就會要求他們要法官助理他們本來就有法官助理了他們還要擴編要擴編員額已經到立法院來要名額了而且跟委員報告這個檢察助理是有效可以減少檢察官的一個工作負擔我想這是一個整體的一個考驗這點請委員能夠自責本席並沒有反對現在是說先把事務官補齊好不好是"},{"start":418.354,"end":446.531,"text":"另外這個臺中又發生這個隨機殺人事件在捷運上面請教一下對於廢死您的看法如何我想法務部的立場都是部長部長您的立場我這邊不能談我個人的立場為什麼不能談個人的立場一個部長是政務官政務官對於政策要講清楚這個是一個法務部的一個立場那個立場我想我們都是我們都是在"},{"start":447.532,"end":470.405,"text":"在釋憲在憲法法庭那個釋憲是另外一件事情嘛一個政務官政務官的風骨嘛你的部長你當了政務官當然你的態度嘛我們法務部這個就是合憲死刑製法就是合憲的合憲這是我們想我們絕對我自己來當法務部嘛就是要對嘛要敢要挺直嘛未來你們下面的檢察官治安不好都跟部長的態度有關係嘛對不對"},{"start":473.266,"end":500.928,"text":"如果你們去支持Face還是陳鳳尚義那我以後不得了啊這案子永遠辦不完啊而且越來越兇啊這社會治安怎麼辦司法是社會的最後一道正義的防線嘛當然你們檢察官你的腰桿要站直嘛部長是承擔所有政治責任你要讓下面所有的檢察官能夠有所侍從嘛"},{"start":501.82,"end":521.05,"text":"我們都支持法務部但你們要趕自己要挺職阿對不對另外阿這個賴清德總統我延續一下剛剛西龍界委員講的阿前天的宣誓阿這個黑金槍圖阿這個圖圖漏掉官商勾結貪贓枉法齁"},{"start":523.356,"end":551.259,"text":"本席對於台南啊這個88槍啊然後再10槍在當街槍殺就是為了這個綠能相關的不法利益啊我希望啊這個台南啊您出生自台南擔任國檢察長先把台南問題把它處理乾淨一點有沒有信心這個我會這個本來就是有沒有信心這個我沒有權利來做有沒有信心嘛"},{"start":552.382,"end":580.607,"text":"這個我們當然這個要全力來做就會建立民眾對我們的一個信任好我再最後再請教一下對呀這個林志廟縣長被起訴那時候您在哪裡起訴那時候我已經離開連政署了所以資料蒐集的時候有參與對不對對那個偵辦的時候我有參與那高鴻安呢市長高鴻安是我在北檢檢察長的時候起訴的"},{"start":581.651,"end":582.612,"text":"政司法如同皇后的徵抄"},{"start":611.997,"end":631.002,"text":"如果我們檢察官、司法要揣摩上意來辦案我想是沒有辦法得到人民的支持跟掌聲在這裡要請部長您來的過程當中你跟前幾任的部長在資歷上"},{"start":633.476,"end":662.416,"text":"可能沒有像他們這麼晚輩尤其在北檢短短一年就接任部長這是屬於天賦異稟級的所以我們希望部長未來的成績大家都在看希望部長能夠摒棄政治的干擾本席在這裡預報一下本席在擔任縣長的時候蔡英文就職以後"},{"start":664.639,"end":682.947,"text":"就執政黨的秘書長來跟我談要怎麼樣處理我的司法案件本席現在先在這裡跟您預報一下還可以交換的本席是嚴正拒絕在這裡先預報一下"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}