{"error":false,"id":["152797"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152797,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152797","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-24","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":24,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T10:49:05+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T10:59:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9df7f5fb8924f208ea42979da188194bea3b43bbf2d64d20177b355aea3eb5498a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"10:49:05 - 10:59:34","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1028,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（10時49分）主席謝謝。麻煩請鄭部長。"],["主席：有請鄭部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，今天很多的委員也都請教法務部關於廢死的議題，不管是你個人或是法務部，目前我都有聽到你相關的一個說法，但是因為今天你是新上任的法務部長，所以我想我還是要再確認一下。在2018年，法務部長曾經講過廢死是臺灣目標，我想請教，你有這樣的認同嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：廢死是臺灣的目標嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是法務部的立場，一定是……"],["洪委員孟楷：法務部的立場？"],["鄭部長銘謙：法務部，因為我是當法務部長，法務部的立場是認為我們是合憲的……"],["洪委員孟楷：合憲？所以廢死是不是臺灣的目標，還是他個人的目標？"],["鄭部長銘謙：邱部長他這個部分，我不曉得他在什麼時候的場合發表，這我不清楚。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是你個人呢？廢死是你的目標嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我到目前為止，我都是講……"],["洪委員孟楷：合憲？"],["鄭部長銘謙：是合憲的。"],["洪委員孟楷：好。蔡清祥部長說廢死是國際的趨勢，也是我國長期努力的方向，你認同嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想廢死的確在某些國家是已經……"],["洪委員孟楷：某些國家嘛！但也不是國際的趨勢嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：是不是國際趨勢，我想國際上的確有廢死的一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：但也有人認為要嚴刑峻法來防範，保障好人。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想以美國、日本等先進國家還是維持死刑制度的。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以廢死不是國際趨勢，也不是我國長期努力的方向，我國國民長期以來對於廢死議題的民調是高達八成的民眾反對廢死，對吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以我們法務部也非常尊重這個民意。"],["洪委員孟楷：再來是2022年，行政院發言人在被問到廢除死刑的議題時強調法務部逐漸朝向廢除死刑推動，有嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：那就是要看民意，如果現在民意認為該廢死，那我們法務部也會尊重。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是現在民意高達八成，甚至因為社會一直發生重大事件，之後的民意反而更加高漲認為說不應該廢除死刑，對吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以法務部一直維持死刑是合憲的一個立場。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以是如行政院發言人所講有逐步朝向這個方向？還是愈來愈遠離？聽剛剛部長的講法是看民意，民意如果說愈來愈不希望廢除死刑，其實法務部是愈來愈遠離廢除死刑，是這樣嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：法務部應該是跟民意站在一起的。"],["洪委員孟楷：跟民意站在一起，非常好！所以部長，今天本席引用前前部長、前任部長、行政院前任發言人的話，就是想要確認現任部長在2024年新民意產生之後的態度為何，是要跟民意站在一起？還是要跟過去蔡英文前總統講的廢死是普世價值這樣子的一個個人立場站在一起？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想廢死這個議題還是各界爭議很大的一個議題，也是很嚴重的議題，我們也是希望能夠廣納意見，如果要廢死真的是要廣納意見，要有共識才有辦法這樣做。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在沒有共識不會推動，對吧？"],["鄭部長銘謙：到目前為止，本部都沒有改變立場。"],["洪委員孟楷：請問部長另外一個議題，上個禮拜吵得沸沸揚揚的就是特赦的問題，在蔡英文總統卸任之前本來以為會簽署特赦陳水扁前總統，但是沒有。那個時候也講到陳水扁特赦的研議，其實9年來38次延長保外就醫已經讓外界覺得他的行為方向都跟一般正常人沒有差別，至於特赦，當時有講到蔡英文總統也沒有交給前任的法務部長去研議要不要特赦，今天是部長上任第二天了，請問有沒有接到新指示要研議特赦？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我沒有接到這部分的訊息。"],["洪委員孟楷：沒有嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：假設未來賴清德總統在這4年任內真的有考慮要特赦的話，是不是應該先交由主管機關法務部來做研議？特赦法規定總統得要求行政院找主管機關來做研議，所以你認為法制要怎麼走？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要按照赦免法的規定，這部分因為目前沒有這份訊息，所以……"],["洪委員孟楷：目前都沒有？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長我再請教您，當初9年前，陳水扁受刑人他保外就醫的條件中有講到「四不」，請問是哪「四不」？"],["鄭部長銘謙：「四不」就……"],["洪委員孟楷：沒關係！部長你管大方向，我不為難你，直接跟你講。當初講的「四不」是不上台、不演講、不談政治、不接受訪問。本席在上上禮拜司法及法制委員會也請教過次長他有沒有踩到紅線的問題，他這9年來有沒有上台過？有；有沒有公開演講過？有；有沒有談過政治？有；有沒有接受訪問？有；甚至他不止接受訪問，還搖身一變變成了主持人訪問別人，訪問我們立法院民進黨的委員。本席剛剛查了一下YouTube上最新影片，甚至在5月19號還上傳陳水扁前總統受刑人還在訪問別人，社會大眾覺得他不只踩紅線，還踩成了紅地毯，變成了一個紅龍！部長怎麼看這件事？"],["鄭部長銘謙：陳前總統的保外醫治，目前我們還是依照監獄行刑法以及監獄受刑人保外醫治的審核基準去做處理的。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們有基準嗎？就是完全都已經超出四不那個範圍，我們好像是法的化外之地。"],["鄭部長銘謙：他有沒有保外醫治這部分我們還是尊重專業醫師的意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以專業醫師認為他應該要上台、他應該要演講、他應該要談政治、他應該要接受訪問對他身體比較好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們尊重專業醫師的意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：有專業醫師出具真正的專業公文書給你們，讓你們知道……"],["鄭部長銘謙：有，有，這個有。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，如果說有的話請提供，因為過去都講每一次保外就醫都沒有再重新評估，都是沿用，如果說有的話請提供。因為今天你是在備詢台，回答的事情都要有憑有據，而且這個都有收入我們相關的紀錄，請說明。"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，有關阿扁前總統所謂的「四不」是針對他每一次個案一些相關的提醒，我們是尊重醫療的專業，醫師的診斷是他去參加相關的活動對他的病情是有幫助的，我們尊重醫療。"],["洪委員孟楷：醫生的專業醫療曾經有跟法務部說讓陳水扁上台、讓陳水扁演講、讓陳水扁談政治、讓陳水扁接受訪問是對他身體有幫助的？"],["周署長輝煌：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：有這份醫療意見？什麼時候？"],["周署長輝煌：比如說他要參加活動，當然他會有展延，每一次展延我們也是尊重醫療意見。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候的醫囑直接這樣寫？是不是能夠提供？"],["周署長輝煌：關於醫囑，原則上是三個月我們會看台中監獄的報告。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席要求在今天下班之前提供這個資料，以不違反個人資料保護法跟醫療隱私為前提提供給本席，可以嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：報告委員，對阿扁總統，我們從4月份增加台南奇美醫院，所以他除了高雄長庚、高雄義大外還有奇美，因為社會有一些爭議……"],["洪委員孟楷：你沒有回答到本席的問題，本席是說提供相關的資料，以不違反病患隱私以及個資法的前提，提供這個資料。尤其你剛提到說我們講的「四不」現在居然變成是參考，然後現在又說這些都是對他病情有幫助的，我們還需要這樣唾面自乾嗎？我們還需要為了一個受刑人把我們國家的法務部、整個法務部的尊嚴都賠進去嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：我想不是這樣子啦！它是對於個案的一個要求。"],["洪委員孟楷：我聽過你的解釋了，我請教部長。"],["主席（吳委員思瑤代）：洪委員發言時間到了，不好意思！請會後再提供資料給洪委員好嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：好，今天下班之前提供資料給本席。"],["鄭部長銘謙：時間定在一個禮拜好嗎？"],["洪委員孟楷：一個禮拜內提供本席資料，我想一個禮拜太長了，3天內好不好？就是這個禮拜五。本席最後要講的是說實在話，本席沒有針對任何人，本席也不是針對陳水扁前總統，本席只有一個原則──天子犯法與庶民同罪，任何人受到法律制裁，沒有雙重標準，不應該有雙重標準，在我們中華民國法治立場上不應該有任何的雙重標準。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員的質詢，謝謝部長。謝謝！","下一位有請鍾佳濱召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-24","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","林思銘","謝龍介","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","羅智強","林德福","洪孟楷","吳宗憲","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","陳俊宇","翁曉玲","陳冠廷"],"page_start":77,"meetingDate":["2024-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1134901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1134901_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1134901_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.35471875,"end":10.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.699718750000002,"end":15.657218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.48409375,"end":33.34221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.187843750000003,"end":22.52534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":33.83159375,"end":34.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.181593750000005,"end":40.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":40.969718750000006,"end":41.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.28596875,"end":43.38284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.16721875,"end":46.92659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.28096875,"end":57.15284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.42846875,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.945968750000006,"end":59.09346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.09346875000001,"end":59.16096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":59.16096875,"end":60.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.19471875000001,"end":64.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEA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