{"error":false,"id":["152805"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152805,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152805","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T11:07:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T11:16:52+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d14303701378bafc9c1abb13d390ebf8b3b43bbf2d64d20179fd04db1c8d0d59d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:07:58 - 11:16:52","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"(變更議程)立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員吳琪銘等17人擬具「不動產估價師法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「土地法第七十三條之一條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「土地法第十四條條文修正草案」案。【第三案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【5月22日、23日 二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":556,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時8分）謝謝主席，麻煩請董次長。"],["主席：好，請董次長。"],["黃委員國昌：次長好。次長新上任，有很多業務的推行還要一些時間，所以剛開始的時候，我可能會把一些基本的態度跟政策方向，一方面就教於次長，一方面也希望可以瞭解賴清德總統新內閣的想法。賴清德總統在就職演說的時候提到有關於社會住宅的部分要延續、要擴大，我的理解，次長是承接花敬群前次長的職位，對吧？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["黃委員國昌：好，因為在整個競選的過程當中，賴清德總統提到百萬社宅，當然，這可能是一個過度簡化的說法，我如果進一步具體來看，應該是整理出來的這張表格的樣子，包租代管17萬戶，興建13萬戶，租金補貼不少於10萬戶，這樣子加起來大概可以有40萬戶，是這樣嗎？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["黃委員國昌：是嘛！也就是說跟蔡英文總統的包租代管8萬戶、興建12萬戶、租金補貼40萬戶，加起來60萬戶，兩者加起來會有100萬戶，是不是？"],["董次長建宏：對，我們希望能夠儘力達到這個目標。"],["黃委員國昌：對，當然啦！我覺得願意蓋社會住宅就是好事，願意積極去蓋就是好事，有的時候開出來的目標，有很多現實上的因素未必能夠達成，我相信大部分民眾都能夠理解，但在實踐這個政見或者政策的過程當中，我覺得比較實事求是的來看這些數字，而不是用政見式或者開支票式的方式來看這些數字，這樣可能對於我們實現居住正義的價值會更有意義，相信次長應該也可以認同吧？"],["董次長建宏：感謝委員的指教，我們會努力去達到這些目標，因為政府有提供一個合理安全的住宅，其實是國人的期望。"],["黃委員國昌：我接下來要說的，不要把它聽成是我在吐槽蔡英文總統，我基本上沒這個意思，因為每一任總統、每一任部長、每一任次長，基本上都有他在這個職位上應該承擔的責任，但我覺得新的政府應該要在這個基礎上面記取過去的教訓，才有辦法、有智慧的展望未來。","我為什麼這樣子說？接下來我要帶次長一起看，因為你承接花敬群次長的職位。去年賴清德總統在競選總統的過程當中，接受提問：有關社會住宅興建12萬戶達標了嗎？他的回答是我們等到520再看興建跟完成發包的有沒有到12萬戶。次長，就你的瞭解，有到12萬戶嗎？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，截至今年4月底為止，我們直接興建的社會住宅發包大概已經達到十萬六百多戶，今年年底可望達到12萬戶。"],["黃委員國昌：你看的是我看的這張表嗎？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["黃委員國昌：你那個數字是怎麼加的，可以說明一下嗎？因為我剛剛聽到你說4月30日是10萬戶，我有點驚訝！"],["董次長建宏：我們基本上是以那個……"],["黃委員國昌：目前既有、新完工、興建中、已決標待開工的小計是5萬2,845戶，這應該沒錯吧？"],["董次長建宏：我們大概在最後的小計部分有10萬戶，這是包含既有、新完工，還有興建中跟決標待興建的。"],["黃委員國昌：你是把地方加進去欸！但請你看中央的部分，中央那一欄是多少？是21,913吧、是52,845吧，你怎麼會把地方的加進去呢？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，相關的社宅，從之前的政策開始，都是中央補助地方興建，有相關的補助款。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你所謂的達標，不是指中央直接興建，是中央加地方，是嗎？"],["董次長建宏：對，對，是中央和地方……"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒有關係。第二個，由中央直接興建的數字，其實已經完工的4,672戶中，有2,907戶是從林口世大運移過來的，這個沒有錯嘛！這個不是住都中心自己蓋的。第二個，有1,173戶是從台糖公營學苑過來的，這也不是住都中心自己蓋的，所以目前已完工的，大概有三類，第一個是林口世大運，第二個從台糖來的，第三個大概是跟人家一起合建而分到的戶數，我的理解應該沒有錯啦！目前……"],["董次長建宏：台糖的部分我們有補助。"],["黃委員國昌：是，目前興建中的部分，大概是這個列表。其實我今天質詢只是希望跟次長講，居住正義跟社會住宅這個政見跟政策，事實上，是非常多年輕世代非常重視的事情。"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["黃委員國昌：第二個部分，我希望能夠務實的看現在的狀態，非常務實的看現在的狀態，這樣我們才能在4年以後、8年以後達標。請你看一下上面有一些完工的日期，很多是預定在今年的5月31號，這個是我最新截圖下來的，應該沒有錯，有看到嗎？像江翠好室、懷石好室、玫瑰好室，對嗎？"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["黃委員國昌：我希望這個網站上的資訊要忠實、客觀，我為什麼這樣說？來！我很快show給次長看，這個是江翠好室，預定5月31號完工，但昨天的狀態，照片長這個樣子，這是昨天我請同仁去拍的，這上面貼的綠色告示牌是施工現場公告的預定完工日期，其實是在2027年4月5號，這張是昨天現場拍的照片；懷石好室本來也是預定5月31號完工，這是昨天現場的照片，要到2026年8月29號完工；第三個是玫瑰好室，預定5月31號完工，這也是昨天的照片，上面的日期是2027年4月19號。或許這些告示牌寫得比較悲觀一點，實際的狀況，我能夠取得最updated的資訊，大概就是去現場看，以及看它的施工告示牌，我希望內政部在做這些社宅時，實際狀況的公告要符合現實的狀況，如果沒有符合現實的狀況，其實沒有意義啊！因為大家去看說今年5月底要完工了，但跑去現場看其實可能離完工還有好長一段距離。我必須說這不是你的責任，因為你520才上任，這個可能是前面殘留下來的問題。但是既然您上來了，新政府新的氣象，我希望未來有關於社會住宅忠實數據呈現這個部分能夠做好，可以嗎？"],["董次長建宏：感謝委員的指教，我們會跟住都中心聯繫，確認相關的數字跟時間。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢。","下一位請高金素梅、高金素梅、高金素梅召委不在。","下一位請蔡易餘委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-19","speakers":["吳琪銘","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","王美惠","黃建賓","黃捷","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra 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"第三個大概是跟人家一起重新合建分道的護屋宿。我理解應該沒有錯啦。目前新建中的部分大概是這個列表。那我其實今天質詢只是希望跟市長講居住正義跟社會住宅的這個政見跟政策非常多年輕的世代"},{"start":380.262,"end":404.472,"text":"事實上是大家非常重視的事情。第二個部分我希望能夠務實地看現在的狀態。非常務實地看現在的狀態。這樣子我們希望4年以後、8年以後能夠達標。我看的主席不好意思最後30秒就結束。您看一下上面有一些完工的日期預定是在今年的5月31日、5月31日、5月31日。"},{"start":409.122,"end":437.294,"text":"這個是我最新截圖下來的應該沒有錯啦有看到嗎?像江翠好事、懷石好事、玫瑰好事對嗎?那我希望這個網站上面的資訊齁要能夠忠實客觀我為什麼這樣說呢?來我很快秀這個是江翠好事5月31日昨天的狀態照片長這個樣子這個是昨天我請同仁去拍的齁"},{"start":438.905,"end":464.053,"text":"那他上面貼的這個綠色的施工現場的公告預定完工的日期其實是在2027年的4月5號這也是昨天現場拍的照片懷石好市也是本來預定5月31號這個是昨天現場的照片要到2026年的8月29號第三個是玫瑰好市預定5月31號這也是昨天的照片"},{"start":465.228,"end":489.607,"text":"上面的是2027年4月19日或許這個告示牌寫得比較悲觀一點實際的狀況我大概能夠取得最update的資訊就是去現場看以及他的施工告示牌那我希望我們的內政部在做這些涉財實際狀況的公告要符合現實的狀況因為如果沒有符合現實的狀況其實沒有意義"},{"start":491.989,"end":502.183,"text":"因為大家去看說欸今年5月不要完工了啊跑去現場看其實可能離完工還有好長一段距離我必須要說齁這不是你的責任"},{"start":503.12,"end":529.593,"text":"因為你520才上任那這個是可能前面殘留下來的問題但是既然您上來了新政府、新的氣象我希望說未來有關社會住宅忠實數據的呈現這個部分希望能夠可以做好,可以嗎?好,感謝委員的指教我們會跟住宅中心聯繫確認相關的數字跟時間好,謝謝好,謝謝黃國昌委員的指教那下一位我們"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}