{"error":false,"id":["152807"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152807,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152807","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T11:19:14+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T11:26:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:41","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d6bde47235cc2e4e03a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d2017200077becbf458025ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張啓楷","委員發言時間":"11:19:14 - 11:26:55","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","gazette":{"lineno":687,"blocks":[["張委員啓楷：（11時19分）謝謝主席，請高副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["張委員啓楷：副主委你好。這應該算是今天最新的好消息，不過可能也是很艱困的挑戰，因為半導體業的發展熱，今天最新的新聞提到，我們產業用電創了最近兩年半最大的漲幅，上個月，就是4月份，我們的用電比去年同期成長了6%，這算很好的消息，表示我們的產業和整個經濟是在往上走的，可是看起來用電的挑戰非常非常大，所以今天我要請教你一個問題，第一個，用電量一直在增加，現在電到底夠不夠？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，充裕穩定的電力，絕對是政府的重中之重，我只能是……"],["張委員啓楷：新主委是AI專家，對不對？他推AI，AI跟精密的晶片、半導體，都是用電耗電非常大的。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：這個好消息就代表後面挑戰就非常大了。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，沒錯。"],["張委員啓楷：所以我直接問你，很清楚的，目前半導體產業精密晶片製造占我們用電的比例有多高？100度電裡面有多少電是用在半導體上面？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：這個數字我不是非常清楚，可是就我所知，其實經濟部都會針對每年的用電需求量跟供給量做一個評估，這也是一個公開的資訊。"],["張委員啓楷：副主委，我請教你這個問題，因為我是嘉義人，台積電要來嘉義設廠嘛，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以嘉義的用電就增加了，我們當然是樂觀其成，因為是我們在爭取的，拜託在用電方面你要多支持。你們非常重要，國家的重要政策發展都是你們在主導嘛，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以你一方面要讓用電是無虞的，另一方面，我要很清楚，你們說要瞭解的是，國發會應該要做一個評估，例如說，你們的主委是AI專家，那麼在AI方面可能會用掉多少電？在發展的同時，需要多少電？那半導體需要多少電？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：兩個禮拜內評估一下今年到未來的一年內可能用掉多少電，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是特別針對AI嗎？"],["張委員啓楷：針對AI跟半導體……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：其他的需要電動化的？"],["張委員啓楷：這兩個現在用電最多。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：半導體跟AI？"],["張委員啓楷：半導體跟AI。當然也有重疊的地方，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你們目前還沒做評估報告嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：應該是有做相關的評估，因為半導體產業其實在臺灣已經很久了，只是現在因為有一些新設的廠，所以會有新的用電需求，我覺得這些新的用電需求都是在經濟部的掌握之中，因為設廠都有一定的完成期限，這個都會在我們需要用電的評估當中。"],["張委員啓楷：現在很多人在幫我們國家的經濟加油，在很樂觀的狀況之下，是有些擔心的。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：我們現在整體的能源政策跟整個能源的結構，你去看，最近這八年來蔡政府非常極力去推再生能源，那現在賴政府上來了，我就看了一下過去八年的再生能源，老實講，這八年只有成長了多少？4.8%，已經那麼努力的狀況下，只成長4.8%，那你去做個對比，今天的消息是4月份用電就成長了6%，6%當然比4.8%多嘛，對不對？那又有一個危機出現，7月27日核電3.5%就不見了，這是不是簡單的數學？成長6%，努力八年，再生能源要補上去的只有4.8%，結果又有3.5%的核能要不見了，用這麼簡單的數學來算，那怎麼辦？電力會不夠啊，要怎麼辦？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，第一個就是綠電起步比較困難，可是綠電有既定的要達到的裝置容量目標，我們會確實達成。剛才你講到核電，假設核電沒有延役的話，中間要補充電力，我們是用天然氣，就是用減煤、增氣、衝綠電的方式來因應，我們政府都有一些全盤的規劃。"],["張委員啓楷：副主委，你說衝綠電，八年前時的再生能源，綠電占5.1%，衝了八年，現在9.9%，蔡政府已經那麼努力了，才成長了4.8%，我拿今天的新聞來做對比，今年4月份光是產業的用電就增加6%，已經追不上去了。我今天跟你講的都是非常殘酷的事實，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：瞭解。"],["張委員啓楷：所以7月27日是不是要討論一下核三廠的一號機真的要停嗎？包括未來的核電是不是真的要停下來？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：有關於這個議題，之前我們的龔前主委也有提到，這個議題會尋求全民的共識，然後再做後續的一些決定。"],["張委員啓楷：我另外問一個問題，你們國發會去年剛核准643億的經費，去打造2030年的電動化公車，對不對？結果現在出現兩個問題了，現在一年的耗電，據我統計，差不多要7億8,300萬度，現在電到底夠不夠？我們剛剛討論的也是AI的用電、半導體的用電，現在電動車也要用電了，一年要7億8,300萬度，電到底夠不夠用？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，電動車是我們十二項核心戰略產業裡面運輸這一塊，主責的單位是交通部、經濟部等相關部會。當然充電樁的裝置是非常重要的，我們絕對不會允許有電動車卻沒有充電場，也不能充電，這是我們不允許會發生的"],["張委員啓楷：我跟你說，這個問題馬上就發生了，現在很多地方連充電場都沒有，怎麼充電？一方面是可能有電沒有車，一方面是有車，可能也有電，但連充電場都沒有，連臺北市這個首善之都，現在充電場都找不到，這要如何解決？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，所以後面的部分我們會全力衝刺，去裝置充電場。"],["張委員啓楷：這樣好不好？我們很理性科學地問政。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：所以幾個東西請你一定要注意，而且要給我資料，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，沒問題。"],["張委員啓楷：第一個，剛剛講的AI跟半導體未來一年可能會增加多少用電，需要多少電，你們要有一個預估。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：不只評估，你要有一個調查報告。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["張委員啓楷：你兩個禮拜給我，OK不OK？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：應該可以。"],["張委員啓楷：應該可以，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：好。第二個，電動車現在很明顯的問題就是沒有充電場，你們要趕快去做，可能要做個協調，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：我知道臺北市政府也很緊張，也出來講，臺中市政府都出來講，你們就去幫忙。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["張委員啓楷：要去幫忙，怎麼幫忙？也請你兩個禮拜後給我一個報告，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：充電場的部分可不可以一個月後給報告？因為我們還要洽其他相關的部會，好不好？"],["張委員啓楷：好。謝謝。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：OK，好，謝謝。"],["張委員啓楷：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝張啓楷委員。","好，接下來，我們請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草\n案」案；三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1134901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.36409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.79221875,"end":17.024093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.80034375,"end":18.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.340343750000002,"end":19.504718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.96784375,"end":26.49096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":26.997218750000002,"end":27.570968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.722843750000003,"end":31.097843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.80284375,"end":29.106593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.70534375,"end":34.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":35.02971875,"end":38.82659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":39.602843750000005,"end":41.44221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.98221875,"end":44.53034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.049093750000004,"end":49.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.21721875,"end":56.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.81596875,"end":52.95096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.001593750000005,"end":53.220968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":56.376593750000005,"end":56.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.45659375,"end":60.83159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.27034375,"end":62.94096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.72971875,"end":65.26971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":65.96159375,"end":68.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":69.65721875,"end":71.69909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.57659375,"end":74.97284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":75.24284375,"end":78.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":77.58846875,"end":86.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.15659375,"end":89.73846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.19034375000001,"end":87.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":88.21971875,"end":89.11409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.05909375,"end":90.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.62846875000001,"end":96.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":96.79221875,"end":97.80471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.06221875,"end":100.09971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.63971875,"end":100.67346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.67346875000001,"end":116.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":102.91784375,"end":103.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.37159375,"end":120.82221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.78909375,"end":117.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.75909375,"end":120.24846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.85596875,"end":138.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.10909375000001,"end":121.15971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.29471875,"end":121.93596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.39534375000001,"end":125.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":126.86346875000001,"end":127.69034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.03596875,"end":130.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":131.35221875000002,"end":132.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":135.38534375,"end":135.72284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.79409375,"end":141.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.76409375,"end":145.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.89846875,"end":153.91409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.56909375,"end":147.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":148.75034375,"end":148.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.07096875000002,"end":149.40846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.98221875000002,"end":150.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.16721875000002,"end":161.05221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.84534375,"end":163.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.06471875,"end":163.61721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.61721875,"end":170.06346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.60846875000001,"end":166.78971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.57846875,"end":169.86096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.56971875000002,"end":170.58659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.58659375000002,"end":172.08846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.52721875,"end":177.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.99471875,"end":197.55284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":197.55284375000002,"end":215.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":203.81346875000003,"end":204.75846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.55971875,"end":208.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":210.96846875,"end":212.21721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.16596875000002,"end":217.07721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.78159375,"end":219.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.01346875000002,"end":221.63346875000002},{"s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