{"error":false,"id":["152814"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152814,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152814","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T11:32:19+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T11:40:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d5981951a6d77790c3a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d20173d14f17e9fe3e1c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:32:19 - 11:40:45","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","gazette":{"lineno":762,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時32分）主席，謝謝。請國發會高副主委。"],["主席：請國發會。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：副主委好。今天可惜主委還沒有過來，但是我想你應該已經跟主委開過會了吧？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：有找大家一起開會嘛？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委在這一次有特別提到，面對AI時代，希望能夠讓臺灣AI產業化、產業AI化，有沒有具體說要怎麼做？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我想，AI這個政策，新內閣成立之前，其實也已經有晶創臺灣了，也有AI 1.0跟2.0的相關政策，那我覺得……"],["洪委員孟楷：臺灣現在AI相關產業的人才缺口有多少？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：基本上我們看看STEM的人才，我們有做一些推估，具體的數字可不可以再提供給委員？"],["洪委員孟楷：臺灣的產業相關數據媒體也有整理出來，AI應用是三大產業領域裡面人才缺口最大的，總共有高達2.5萬個人才缺口。本席想請教，感覺現在新政府言必稱AI，AI內閣、AI產業化、產業AI化，我們今天也在審理與人才相關的一些法條，就我們自己最內部的來看，如果說我們自己的產業都有高達2萬5,000個人才缺口，那我們要怎麼樣培養AI的人才？還是用口號？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我想絕對不是口號。"],["洪委員孟楷：我也希望不是口號。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。其實國科會在AI 1.0、AI 2.0裡面，人才培育就是重點項目之一，我們基本的策略就是，第一個就是先培養我們高教的STEM的相關人才，比如說，增加招生的名額跟科系，而且讓那些非資訊的……"],["洪委員孟楷：所以跟教育部、大學合作？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，跟教育部合作，然後有產學共育，譬如說，我們的半導體學院，是在創新條例裡面的。然後另外一個就是包括延攬，晶創臺灣裡面有包含怎麼樣延攬AI的新創人才到臺灣來。"],["洪委員孟楷：外國的人才？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，外國人才。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以預計這幾方面的比例怎麼配比？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：基本上當然越多越好，每一個都是。"],["洪委員孟楷：既然越多越好，那就整個餅越多越好，你有辦法補足2.5萬人的缺口，那另外一方面，多少是我們臺灣自己高教培養，多少是外國人才進來，這都要去計算吧？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個都有計算吧？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，會有計算。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個都有規劃吧？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，有。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你現在的方向是什麼？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：基本上STEM的人才裡面，我們逐年都擴增它占所有高教畢業生的比重，目前應該是到35%左右，我們希望逐年提升。"],["洪委員孟楷：副主委，你這個資料會後提供給本席辦公室，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：但是另外一個部分，除了人才，還有能源，也相當重要。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席剛剛從衛環委員會下來，今天環境部長備詢，環境部長有提到一個很重要的，就是在今年，本來是說4月，我們的碳費費率要出來，但是沒有出來，現在又說6月才要開審議委員會，希望能夠訂立碳費，但我們也看到了，國發會希望達到2050淨零碳排目標，所以也push環境部趕快來把碳費確認，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我想碳費的徵收目前應該還是按照既有的規劃時程來進行。"],["洪委員孟楷：既有的規劃時程是什麼時候？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：明年就要開始。"],["洪委員孟楷：明年徵收嘛？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：今年公告，明年徵收嘛？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：對啊。那今年都還沒公告啊，這是重點。本來講3月底公告，因為千呼萬喚總是要出來嘛。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：先說3月底，然後又講說4月底，現在又講說6月，6月能不能出來？剛剛環境部長講的是說，那是碳費審議委員會的決策，部長無權過問。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我想，的確就如部長說的，因為我們碳費的制訂有成立一個委員會，所以我們還是要尊重委員會的決定，那當然我們會希望至少在今年底可以在委員會裡面達到一個共識，然後達到一個決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：你剛剛講目標還是不變，但是你又沒有辦法，所以你只能希望。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。跟委員報告，其實情勢是在變化當中的……"],["洪委員孟楷：情勢當然在變化，滾動檢討嘛。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，那我現在的講法就是說，我們現在的設定是按照既定的時程。"],["洪委員孟楷：有沒有信心在今年6月的時候可以訂出費率？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：基本上委員會我沒有參加。"],["洪委員孟楷：您不是主委，我不為難你，但是另外一個部分，能源政策是不是也應該要滾動檢討？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：同意嘛？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在七大工業國G7之前有提出了一個方向，什麼方向？他們的結論你有沒有看到？七大工業國之前提出的結論，他們不再發表反核的言論，並且承認核能環保的地位，這是第一個。第二，2035年之前逐步淘汰燃煤發電，就是減少火力發電的占比，尤其是碳排比較大的燃煤發電，2035年要淘汰燃煤發電，承認核能環保的地位，不再發表反核的言論。既然如此，現在大家也都在講，國發會規劃的2050年電力配比目標，再生能源占60%到70%，非常高的比例，甚至是高過一半以上，以現在還剩二十多年的時間，有辦法做到嗎？以現在的技術、人力、物力、效率。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：綠能節能的技術是會與時俱進、突飛猛進的，IEA也有說過，我們要達到2050年淨零碳排的目標，2030年以後都是要靠創新的技術來做，所以到時候有更多新技術，比如說氫能，有其他的創新能源的技術會出來，在這個衡量之下，我們覺得有可能達到，因為這個設定的60%到70%，我們跟其他的國家比較，或者是IEA公布的再生能源比較……"],["洪委員孟楷：高副主委，你這樣的講法，好像我們國發會有時空旅人回來告訴你說未來一切都可以解決，所以現在不用擔心啦，60%到70%就訂下去啦。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：應該是說，IEA認為說……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們討論能源方向是務實、理性。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，當然是務實。"],["洪委員孟楷：而且更重要的是要符合現實。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以你剛剛有講滾動檢討，有收到滾動檢討的指令了嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們的前主委有在這個會場講過，就是說，能源政策的檢討，一切是在全民有共識之下，會做決定。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以現在前主委已經高升到秘書長了，他有沒有新的指示？目前還沒有？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：因為他已經不是我的主管了。"],["洪委員孟楷：今天是520之後新政府上任後第一天到立法院接受質詢，我們以理性科學的方式來互相溝通，最重要的是專業問政，我也希望未來的每一次答詢我們都本著專業，而不是政治意識型態，好嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：謝謝副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝洪孟楷委員。","接下來我們請蘇清泉、蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員不在。","請黃秀芳委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草\n案」案；三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1134901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":0.03096875,"end":1.3303437500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":9.902843750000002,"end":13.868468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.83471875,"end":14.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.99409375,"end":20.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.17971875,"end":20.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":20.58471875,"end":21.07409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.07409375,"end":21.090968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.090968750000002,"end":21.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.96846875,"end":21.985343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.985343750000002,"end":22.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.985343750000002,"end":22.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.30596875,"end":36.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":37.189718750000004,"end":38.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.43409375,"end":44.580968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":44.95221875,"end":55.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.02659375,"end":58.45221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":58.97534375,"end":66.23159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":67.64909375,"end":68.64471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":68.96534375,"end":71.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.39534375000001,"end":72.74534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.23471875,"end":80.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":81.48659375000001,"end":85.18221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.29159375,"end":91.22346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.72971875,"end":93.13034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.48471875,"end":100.03221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.30221875000001,"end":107.03534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.06909375000001,"end":108.48659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":109.43159375,"end":112.58721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.66721875,"end":117.76784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.55284375000001,"end":117.71721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.76784375000001,"end":117.78471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.78471875000001,"end":134.74409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.82846875,"end":150.33659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.51971875,"end":142.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.69096875,"end":151.77096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":152.04096875000002,"end":158.58846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.14159375,"end":158.30159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.63471875000002,"end":162.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.76909375,"end":164.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.22034375,"end":166.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.65471875,"end":177.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.72221875000002,"end":167.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.06221875,"end":182.31471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":179.90159375000002,"end":182.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.63534375,"end":184.77846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.49159375000002,"end":184.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.94721875000002,"end":189.84096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":190.26284375,"end":199.03784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.03784375,"end":200.55659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.92784375000002,"end":204.25221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":203.89784375000002,"end":204.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":204.25221875000003,"end":204.26909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.26909375000002,"end":209.68596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":209.55096875,"end":209.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.85471875000002,"end":213.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":213.75284375,"end":214.22534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.22534375,"end":223.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.51909375000002,"end":229.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":229.36221875,"end":234.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":234.32346875000002,"end":237.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.62659375,"end":240.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":240.63471875000002,"end":241.12409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.76534375000003,"end":242.18721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":242.71034375000002,"end":250.10159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.73034375,"end":251.83971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":251.45159375000003,"end":254.05034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.58221875,"end":259.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":257.77971875000003,"end":258.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.83846875,"end":260.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.66534375000003,"end":275.3128437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1.0、AI 2.0裡面,其實人才培育就是它的重點項目之一啦。那我們基本的策略就是第一個就是先培養我們高教的、STAND相關的人才,譬如說增加招生的名額跟科系。然後呢,而且讓那些非資訊的…所以跟教育部合作、跟大學。對。"},{"start":142.335,"end":142.415,"text":" ﹝語言中﹞"},{"start":163.837,"end":163.937,"text":"對,有。好。"},{"start":185.023,"end":185.323,"text":"主委,您這個資料"},{"start":201.376,"end":203.898,"text":"會後提供給本席辦公室,好不好?"},{"start":203.898,"end":223.491,"text":"是,可以。但另外一個部分除了人才還有就是能源也相當重要。本席剛剛從未還委員會下來,今天環境部長被尋。環境部長有提到一個很重要,就是在今年本來是說四月我們的碳費、費率要出來,但是沒有出來。"},{"start":224.734,"end":239.54,"text":"現在說六月才要開審議委員會希望能夠把電力碳費但我們也看到了國發會就是認為說現在2050精靈碳排目標所以也不許環境部說趕快來把碳費這邊要確認對不對"},{"start":243.042,"end":243.142,"text":"是,是。"},{"start":260.757,"end":272.269,"text":"因為千呼萬喚總是要使出來嘛三月底然後又講說四月底現在又講說六月六月能不能出來剛剛環境部長講的是說那是碳費審議委員會的決策部長無權過問"},{"start":276.211,"end":276.231,"text":"蘇貞昌議員"},{"start":295.031,"end":317.334,"text":"你剛講目標還是不變,但是你沒有辦法,所以你只能希望。對,我跟委員報告就是說,其實情勢是在變化當中的。情勢當然在變化,滾動檢討嘛。那我現在的講法就是說,我們現在的設定是按照既定的時程。有沒有信心在今年六月的時候可以出來費率?"},{"start":318.961,"end":340.04,"text":"就看看那個,因為那個基本上委員會我沒有參加。您不是主委,我會為難你啦。是。但另外一個部分,能源政策是不是也應該要滾動檢討?我同意,我想同意。同意嗎?對。現在七大工業國G7,他們之前有提出了一個方向,什麼方向?它的結論,有沒有看到?七大工業國。"},{"start":344.339,"end":368.001,"text":"之前提出的結論他們認為核能不再發表反核的言論並且承認核能環保地位這一個第二2035年之前逐步淘汰燃煤發電就是減少火力發電的佔比尤其是碳排比較大的燃煤2035要淘汰燃煤發電"},{"start":370.02,"end":397.783,"text":"承認核能環保的地位不再發表反核的言論。那既然如此我想現在大家都在講我們國發會規劃的2050電力配比目標再生能源佔60到70%非常高的比例甚至是高過一半以上以現在還剩20多年的時間有辦法做到嗎?以現在技術、人力、物力、效率"},{"start":399.235,"end":423.04,"text":"如果我又和就是令人節能那個技術是會與時俱進突飛猛進的那IAEA有說過其實我們要達到2050年淨零碳排的目標其實到就是2030年以後都是要靠創新的技術來做所以到時候有更多比如說青人有其他的創新人員的技術會出來"},{"start":424.6,"end":449.07,"text":"﹗在這個衡量之下呢,我們覺得因為這個設定的60到70,我們跟其他的國家比較,或者是IEA公佈的這個暫時領域比較...﹗高國主委,你這樣講法好像我們國發會有時空旅人回來告訴你說未來一切都可以解決,所以現在不用擔心啦,60、70%就定下去啦。應該是說IEA認為說...﹗我們討論能源方向是務實﹗是,當然是務實﹗理性,而且更重要的是要"},{"start":449.87,"end":476.597,"text":"所以你剛剛有講滾動檢討,有收到滾動檢討的指令了嗎?基本上就是,我現在因為我們那個前主委有在這個會場上講過,就是說人類政策的檢討一切是在全民有共識之下會有做決定。所以現在前主委已經高升到秘書長了,他有沒有新的指示?目前還沒有?"},{"start":477.381,"end":478.761,"text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}