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12:05:53","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1017,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時59分）謝謝主席，本席有請環境部彭部長。"],["主席：彭部長。"],["彭部長啓明：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長好。首先恭喜您剛履新上任，而且您素有氣象達人之稱。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：除了氣候變遷的議題之外，請問您對環境部的業務都還熟悉嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：我現在在努力學習，我當然有一部分是很熟悉，但是很多一部分我還在摸索當中，例如說垃圾、循環經濟等等，這個都是我過去比較少碰的，也跟委員坦誠，我必須要跟我們的署長們學習。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是，好。今天本席想要就部長的簡報，在第14頁有講到安靜家園，跨部會合作改善鄰近噪音，在簡報第37頁也提到了推動廢水處理節能創能及資源循環，就這兩方面的議題，本席想來跟您就教，也想給您一些建議。","首先，第一個是有關噪音的問題，因為本席在交通委員會有提出一個問題，就是對於交通的噪音，當然交通部對於高速公路或鐵道邊的住戶，如果噪音分貝達到一定的程度也可以做隔音牆，交通部訂的隔音牆設置標準，是噪音要達到80分貝。但是有一個概念本席想在這邊溝通，譬如說我們人體要背一個東西，100斤的我背不動，100斤會造成我身體很大的創傷，100斤背上去我大概就垮了，可能還會骨折，那8公斤、10公斤大家都可以背，可是有一個問題就是8公斤、10公斤雖然感覺好像很輕微，甚至是5公斤，但是如果你背著不放，背了10天、1個月、1年、10年都一直持續不斷，那身體會不會變形？還是會變形。","我舉這個例子想要說的就是，噪音要達到80分貝，那72分貝或75分貝都不達標準，所以不能設置隔音牆。可是你想想看，一個人70分貝就在他住家，在他睡眠的時間持續8個小時，然後1天、1個月、1年、10年，他住在那邊幾十年了，痛苦不堪！這是第一點。所以為什麼有滴水穿石？滴水誰怕啊？洪流我會怕啊！很強的水柱會傷我，但是滴水可以穿石，所以這個概念，交通部提出說它要找環境部，環境部這個標準你要看情況，這樣長期持續，我相信您慢慢也會了解。現代人跟過去不一樣，現代人不要說噪音，你講話對他大聲一點，可能很多人就受不了，他可能就憂鬱症了。所以在這一塊，部長，可不可以來研擬？因為交通部一定會找你們，這一塊我們要來改善，一定要想辦法，尤其它已經很接近，80分貝它是針對聽到80分貝以上的，耳朵或是整個人會受不了，但是七十幾分貝，一直達不到80分貝，它卻是continuous、它持續不斷，那就是滴水穿石的原理，那怎麼受得了？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們的民眾在這一塊就受苦啊！可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：可以。"],["徐委員欣瑩：部長，給我正面的回應吧！"],["彭部長啓明：其實我自己在家裡，要是鄰居唱KTV，40分貝我就受不了了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：太好了！"],["彭部長啓明：所以我深有同感，當然這個部分我會跟交通部來做協調，要擬議出跟民眾有關的法案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是協調，它現在看你們的設定哦！標準是你們，它說是環保在設的。"],["彭部長啓明：我們了解一下，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好。第二個問題，還有一點時間，大家都非常認同我們要愛護環境，臺灣有很多的河川污染，我相信您上任一定會碰到很多，我們真的要愛護我們的環境，現在有很多地方的河川長期只看到污染，永遠找不到來源，這個部分在環境部這裡，當然你們可能會說這是地方環保局的問題，但是如果對一個地方長期造成這種污染，甚至在很多縣市，尤其是鄉下地方，它的下游可能都是稻米的灌溉，這樣長期下來，其實這個循環鏈是影響非常多人的，所以有沒有可能對於查無結果的案件，可以提請公正第三方來檢驗？地方環保局一直查無不法，可是居民一直反映，有一些案件我們甚至看到死魚，這個怎麼辦？"],["彭部長啓明：其實唯一解決的方法就是在河川多設感測器，然後即時的監控，一有問題馬上先知道，然後馬上去做處理。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這個在地方，中央可以補助設置這些的經費？"],["彭部長啓明：有，目前已經有了，像新竹，他們有幾個年輕朋友用LASS，有一個社群叫LASS，就幫助新竹解決了很多的問題。"],["徐委員欣瑩：這樣子，那我特別點出我們新竹工業區下游，茄苳溪污染幾十年了，所以部長，我們一定要共同來解決這個問題，好不好？"],["彭部長啓明：好，我們已經有在布設了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席對您有所期待。"],["彭部長啓明：我們會再去了解一下，看能不能再加強。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝徐欣瑩委員的發言。","接下來請林淑芬委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","蘇清泉","林月琴","陳菁徽","王正旭","涂權吉","王育敏","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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