{"error":false,"id":["152832"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152832,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152832","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T12:11:07+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T12:18:41+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:34","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9dc4fd79667344e9b13a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d20174081f7d117a098d95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"范雲","委員發言時間":"12:11:07 - 12:18:41","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","gazette":{"lineno":966,"blocks":[["范委員雲：（12時11分）謝謝邱召委，有請國發會副主委。"],["主席：請國發會。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["范委員雲：副主委好。想跟您請教，關於延攬國外專業人才，我知道要考慮產業需求，我只是想除了產業需求之外，社會的需求不知道是不是也能夠一起考慮？請問您對外籍專業人才的想像，可以簡單跟我說是怎麼出來的嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。這個法裡面有包括外國特定專業人才，還有一般專業人才，外國特定專業人才就如委員所說的，我們會考慮大概有十項類別，除了經濟、科技，也包括演藝、新聞、教育等各個領域，臺灣所需要的人才都有主管部會設定一定的標準，積極延攬。我們會提供他們一些稅務、或者是工作、或是簽證上的便利。"],["范委員雲：了解。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：關於一般專業人才，基本上就是就服法的相關規定，只要雇主符合僱用的條件，這些受僱者也符合一定的條件，都可以延攬進入臺灣工作。"],["范委員雲：我想如果我們跟日本、新加坡、韓國比的話，他們有針對中階技術人力發放工作簽證，臺灣跟這三個國家相比，因為我們也是人口老化國家，他們的中階技術人力如果在臺灣，有辦法取得相關簽證嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我覺得分兩個部分，一般專業人才只要符合就服法的規定，有雇主願意僱用，就業條件是月薪47,971元，以及大學畢業加兩年工作經驗，就可以進入臺灣。我想中階技術人力有一部分是屬於這塊的人力。"],["范委員雲：了解。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：另外一方面，我們有勞工久留方案，就是移工留才久用方案，就是在臺灣已經有6年以上工作經驗、符合一定條件的移工，也屬於中階技術人力，就可以留下來。","另外一種是僑外生。僑外生如果拿到學士學位，依照僑外生評點制度，even不需要工作經驗，就可以留在臺灣。所以有不同的管道，我們會讓這些專業人力還有中階技術人力都可以留在臺灣。"],["范委員雲：好。我現在想問，勞動部的新聞有預告外國人以後可以在臺灣當社工師，「衛福部認同：具專業性」。請問副主委，如果是社工師會符合目前已有的相關規定嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我覺得應該是外國專業人才就符合。我剛剛有講過，他只要有雇主，而且他有薪資47,971元、大學畢業兩年工作經驗，都可以，不會有產業之分，類別應該也是在這裡面。"],["范委員雲：現在我的問題是，因為我們所了解的，申請來臺需求有一項是月薪達47,971元，這樣沒錯吧？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是，這是一般專業人才。"],["范委員雲：所以你的意思是社工師不需要走一般專業人才這條路嗎？因為我們看社工師的平均薪資，其實並沒有到40,000元，113年起社工師調整的起薪只有37,000元吔，這部分的矛盾怎麼解決？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我剛才說有三個管道，基本上如果他走的是一般專業人才，的確要符合月薪47,971元。"],["范委員雲：是。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：可是如果他是僑外生，用評點制度就……"],["范委員雲：但如果不是僑外生呢？僑外生點數加起來會夠，這是我們知道的，這是一個不錯的累積辦法。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，是。"],["范委員雲：可是今天他如果走的不是僑外生這條路呢？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：就還是要符合就服法的相關規定。"],["范委員雲：那這樣我們開放的意義跟實際之間的矛盾，我想問的是，為什麼社工師不被當成是個專業？我們考量的到底是一個國家的產業，譬如某些工程需要，還是也看到社會的需求？社工不被認為是個產業，很多都是政府部門或者NGO外包，我們看不到其實社會也有這個需求。因為社工師的薪資，以我知道在其他國家是比臺灣更高，他可能想要來臺灣，也許有別的原因，數量也不是很大。可是這裡你就會發現，他有卡關，跟勞動部之間的政策是矛盾的，所以想請問副主委這個問題。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：基本上，因為一般專業人才的法規主管部會還是勞動部，在沒有修法之前，的確一定要符合月薪47,971元的相關規定。我是不是可以請勞動部主秘來說明，當初設定這個標準的立法意旨跟原則是怎麼樣，在社工師的適用是怎麼樣？"],["范委員雲：因為我時間快到了，是不是可以簡短說明，好嗎？所以這件事是不需要處理的嗎？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：跟委員報告，目前專業人才的薪資設定47,971元，是為了確保他提供的專業服務符合市場認定是屬於專業。"],["范委員雲：所以一定要很高階的社工才能夠來嗎？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：這是一個，我剛剛講這是其中一條路。剛剛副主委也有提到，其實目前用評點制，社工師一樣也可以納入適用，他就沒有……"],["范委員雲：不是，那他等於必須要在臺灣唸大學，才能用僑生的身分累積更多的點數。"],["陳主任秘書世昌：是。"],["范委員雲：所以基本上你們社工師只對在臺灣唸完大學的僑生開放嗎？"],["陳主任秘書世昌：只要取得社工師證照，就可以符合，不見得要在臺灣唸書。"],["范委員雲：可是取得社工師證照，他的薪資並沒有達到這個標準啊！"],["陳主任秘書世昌：薪資的部分，我們並沒有……"],["范委員雲：我想這兩個部會之間顯然溝通是有一點問題。陳主秘您請回，謝謝。","我想跟副主委討論的是，我覺得國發會的攬才計畫，精神上我非常支持，我只是希望除了產業需求之外，也能夠看到社會跟弱勢人民的需求，當然如何保障本國人民的就業利益跟公共利益之間，要作一個權衡，好嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["范委員雲：可以在一個月內給我一個書面報告，好嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好、好，沒問題。"],["范委員雲：謝謝副主委，謝謝召委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝范雲委員，接下來請王正旭委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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