{"error":false,"id":["152844"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152844,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152844","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T12:39:16+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T12:47:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d205513005a8beac53a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d2017e8786ddbee0d12f55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:39:16 - 12:47:40","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","gazette":{"lineno":1116,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時39分）謝謝主席，是不是請國發會副主委。"],["主席：請國發會副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：好。副主委，今天想先跟副主委討論這個就業金卡，就業金卡是針對外國的一些專業人士，他們可以去申請包括他們工作許可、居留簽證、外僑居留證跟重入國許可證等證件，這個金卡的效力就是三年，外僑居留證可以到五年，五年以上未曾入國者就可以廢止其永久居留許可，我想要請教的是，為什麼要訂五年以上未曾入國的規定呢？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：這個應該是入出國移民法裡面的相關規定，過去是五年內每年平均要到一百八十三天，現在我們在這個法裡面是放寬到只要他在五年內有一次入境，我們就不會廢止他的永久居留許可，因為我們這個法基本上是一個特別法，其實有些規定還是要回歸到入出國移民法和就服法等一般法的相關規範。"],["蔡委員易餘：對，可是既然已經給他永久居留了，名稱已經把它叫做「永久居留」，然後你又說五年內沒有入境就要廢止其永久居留，這樣就沒有永久居留的概念了啊！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：它不是永久……如果你取得就業金卡的話，目前針對取得永居的時間，我們已經把它縮短成三年，三年中間如果你有博士學位的話，你可以折抵一年，也就是說，你就算取得就業金卡，還是要有兩年的居留期間，你才可以取得永居，並不是一進來就可以。"],["蔡委員易餘：我現在講的是取得永居之後，就是他已經有永居的資格了，但你還是規定他五年內要入國一次。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：就是所有取得永居的人……"],["蔡委員易餘：這樣跟永居的概念不會背道而馳嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：所有其他國家的法令也都是這個樣子，也就是說，就算你取得美國綠卡，你可能還是需要在這個國家有一些居留的事實，所以我們入出國移民法裡面已經規範在五年內平均要有一百八十三天，而在這個法裡面，我們已經放寬到如果是就業金卡的話，你只要五年內有一次入境，我就不會取消你永居的資格。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，這是第一個問題。第二個，我想再請教副主委，一樣是就專業攬才的移民，現在針對專業攬才的移民，你們把它限定在就業服務法第四十六條第一項到第六項，如果我們去思考事實上有很多工廠現在所聘請的移工，他可能已經工作超過十年，而且他的薪水也已經達到一定的程度，已經不是傳統在做低階工作的移工，他已經做十年了，他對整個工廠的運作是熟悉的，甚至他的薪水是高的，但是到了十二年之後，也就是他只要滿十二年，他還是得出國去。事實上，這樣是不是變成臺灣對於這些移工，我們等於一直在替人家、替韓國、替日本栽培基礎的移工，等到他的技術成熟，他就要回去了，這是不是很可惜？所以有沒有可能國發會用上位的思考，我們設定一個條件，不要限定只有一到六款，包括剩下的七、八、九款，他只要達到一定的薪資水平，而且工作年限也達到了多少，讓他一樣可以去走專業的移民，甚至於一樣可以去走就業金卡，有沒有辦法這樣？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，在我們的移工久用留才方案裡面，其實就針對委員講的，也就是只要在臺灣工作六年以上的移工，他符合這個方案的特定條件，他現在都可以留在臺灣，他取得永居的時間就比照一般專業人才是五年。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以現在就可以嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：現在就可以。"],["蔡委員易餘：六年以上就可以？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：現在已經有兩萬多個移工用這個方案取得留在臺灣的資格了。"],["蔡委員易餘：那它有限定條件嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：有一些限制條件，包括薪資還有技能的條件。"],["蔡委員易餘：就薪資來講，我想就會變成如果雇主真的有心要留下這個移工，對他來說重要，那麼雇主就要去考量嘛！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是的。"],["蔡委員易餘：那其他的條件呢？技術條件？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：有一些相關的技術條件，要取得一些技術的證照，除了證照，還有薪資，然後會視產業別跟社福有差別。基本上就產業別，他的經常性薪資只要3.3萬元以上，僑外生只要首聘3萬元就可以了，然後總薪資要到達50萬。至於技術條件的話，他需要有一些……"],["蔡委員易餘：我要問的是這一些移工他們怎麼去取得證照？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我們會輔導他，就是說如果產業、企業想要把現在的移工留下來，我們會有相關輔導，輔導他從事技能檢定等等，我們會協助。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，最後再問一個問題，因為你們延攬外國人才的誘因當中有一個叫做租稅優惠，租稅優惠是針對首次來臺的外國特定專業人士，首次的這個概念在實務上一直都有很多人在爭議，怎樣叫做首次？如果他之前有來臺灣工作過，過了幾年之後再次來這樣可以叫做首次嗎？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是的，就是不允許，一定是要首次。"],["蔡委員易餘：就不允許？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對，目前我們要吸引新的外國專業人才來。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以這個首次是怎樣叫做首次啊？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：如果他已經來過，就不能適用這個。"],["蔡委員易餘：是啊，但這樣就會有一個問題，他可能之前來的時候……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是沒有這個優惠。"],["蔡委員易餘：對啊，現在我要聘請他來，但卻沒有這樣的優惠。就是說關於這個首次，我要問的是，你們這樣的租稅優惠訂了首次的限制，到底目的是什麼？事實上是沒有必要的嘛，只要他願意來、願意留在臺灣工作，我覺得既然有這樣的優惠，就讓他可以適用這樣的優惠啊！只是優惠的時間點你們要把它抓緊一點，就是說到底優惠時間是多久……"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["蔡委員易餘：你一直在抓這個首次，變成之前來過的，後來再來就不適用這一條，我覺得這樣也有不合理的地方。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：我想這會涉及跟財政部的相關協商，針對委員所提的這個意見，在下次修法的時候，針對首次的定義，我們再參考委員的意見，然後做一個全盤的檢討。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，謝謝。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝蔡易餘委員，接下來請鄭正鈐委員發言。我們中午不休息，各位同仁及部會長官如果肚子餓可以自己先行用餐。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草\n案」案；三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」\n案","agenda_id":"1134901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":2.41034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":17.59784375,"end":21.15846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.25971875,"end":22.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.250968750000002,"end":24.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.718468750000003,"end":28.988468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.37659375,"end":30.22034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":30.64221875,"end":34.034093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.557218750000004,"end":69.08346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":73.26846875000001,"end":75.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":77.70659375000001,"end":108.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.57096875,"end":119.53971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.07721875,"end":109.34721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.16971875,"end":111.40596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.60846875,"end":112.14846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":119.89409375000001,"end":124.31534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.95284375000001,"end":122.66159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.69534375,"end":145.05471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.48534375,"end":155.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":147.73784375,"end":147.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":148.46346875,"end":148.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.77971875,"end":149.96534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.13346875000002,"end":154.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.90096875,"end":164.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.12034375000002,"end":157.50846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":161.37284375000002,"end":161.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.25846875000002,"end":192.72659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.30034375000002,"end":195.47721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.47721875000002,"end":201.75471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.97409375,"end":233.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.58659375000002,"end":224.65409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.96596875,"end":227.30346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.96909375,"end":250.37159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.97909375,"end":258.33659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.82596875,"end":287.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.71596875,"end":291.98534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.54221875,"end":305.41784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":305.56971875,"end":306.51471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.13909375000003,"end":310.76721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":311.37471875,"end":323.59221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.44534375,"end":319.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":319.44096875,"end":321.06096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":324.19971875000005,"end":330.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":330.96659375,"end":332.23221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.22784375000003,"end":333.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.66659375,"end":333.95346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.95346875,"end":334.30784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.30784375,"end":334.74659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":334.74659375000005,"end":334.78034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.35409375,"end":338.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.99909375000004,"end":349.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":342.94784375,"end":344.55096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":345.56346875,"end":347.52096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":349.56284375,"end":349.86659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.03534375000004,"end":354.06846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":354.81096875000003,"end":361.76346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":355.36784375,"end":355.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":356.86971875,"end":357.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.24096875000004,"end":357.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":357.35909375,"end":358.48971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":361.99971875,"end":367.12971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":367.46721875000003,"end":368.36159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":368.80034375,"end":374.35221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.38159375000004,"end":375.44909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.44909375000003,"end":375.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":375.49971875,"end":378.14909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":375.51659375,"end":385.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":384.30846875000003,"end":384.56159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":385.96221875000003,"end":398.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":398.95596875,"end":400.86284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.86284375,"end":401.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蔡易餘"},{"start":94.324,"end":118.143,"text":"有入境我就不會廢止他的永久居留許可因為我們這個法基本上是一個特別法那其實有些相關的規定還是要回歸到入庫和移民法、拯救服法的一般法的相關規範對可是他竟然已經給他永久居留了嘛是已經名稱把它叫做永久居留那你又說你五年內沒有入境"},{"start":119.984,"end":146.354,"text":"那你就要廢止永久居留,那這樣就沒有永久居留的概念了。就是說如果你取得就業金卡的話,目前就是你取得永居的時間,我們已經把它縮短成三年了。三年中間如果你有博士學位的話,你可以折頂一年。也就是說你就算取得就業金卡,你還是要有兩年的居留期間,你才可以取得永居。對,那我現在講的是取得永居之後。"},{"start":146.894,"end":154.56,"text":"對就是所有取得永居的人這樣跟永居的概念不會背道而馳吧對所有的其他國家的法令也都是這個樣子就是就算你取得美國的綠卡你可能也需要"},{"start":172.754,"end":172.854,"text":"蔡易餘"},{"start":196.036,"end":218.898,"text":"好那這第一個齁那第二個我想再請教這個副主委齁一樣是就就這樣的一個移民齁就專業攬才的移民那你們現在專業攬才的移民齁你們就把他限在就業服務法46條第一項到第六項那我指的是說如果我們去思考啦齁"},{"start":219.719,"end":220.64,"text":"蔡易餘 蔡易餘 蔡易餘"},{"start":236.152,"end":258.78,"text":"⋯⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":259.04,"end":261.821,"text":"蔡易餘﹚蔡易餘﹚蔡易餘﹚蔡易餘﹚蔡易餘﹚蔡易餘﹚蔡易餘﹚"},{"start":287.751,"end":310.613,"text":"那跟委員報告齁,的確其實我們在我們的移工流財移工久用流財方案裡面其實就針對委員講的其實你只要在6年以上的在台灣工作6年以上的那個移工他符合這個方案的特定的條件他現在都可以"},{"start":311.391,"end":311.651,"text":"那他有限定條件嗎?"},{"start":335.43,"end":353.726,"text":"有一些限制條件,薪資還有技能的條件。薪資我想就變成說,如果僱主真的有心要去留下這個移工,對他來說重要,這僱主要去考量嗎?是的。那其他的條件,技術條件?有一些相關技術條件,要取得一些技術的證照吧。"},{"start":355.435,"end":356.256,"text":"蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘"},{"start":375.424,"end":376.465,"text":"蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘蔡易餘"},{"start":402.748,"end":430.772,"text":"最後再問一個因為你們的這個延攬外國人才誘因有一個叫做租稅優惠租稅優惠是針對首次來台的外國特定專業人士那這個首次的這個概念一直在實務上是很多人在爭議怎樣叫做首次如果他是說之前有來台灣工作過那他過了幾年後再次來這樣可以叫做首次嗎是的就不允許一定是要首次"},{"start":432.167,"end":453.646,"text":"對就不允許對是目前對我們要吸引新的外國人所以這個首次是怎樣叫做首次啊他就是如果他曾經已經來過就不能適用這個是啊啊這樣就會有一個問題嘛他可能之前來的時候是沒有這個對啊那現在他想要說啊我要聘請他來啊卻沒有這樣的就是說這個首次"},{"start":455.18,"end":484.361,"text":"我要問的說你們這樣的一個租稅優惠訂了這個首次到底目的是什麼事實上是沒有必要的嘛只要他願意來願意留在台灣工作我覺得說既然有這樣的優惠那就就讓他可以去進行這樣的優惠啊只是優惠的時間點你們把它抓緊一點就是說到底你的優惠時間是多久那你一直在抓這個首次變成說之前來過的後來再來就不適用這一條我覺得這樣也有它不合理的地方"},{"start":484.741,"end":484.841,"text":"蔡易餘委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}