{"error":false,"id":["152851"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152851,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152851","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,26,22],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T12:55:57+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T13:03:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:09","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d3197b59b132134893a3b62c5cf6e8dc13b43bbf2d64d20175d8c8ccef27180a35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"12:55:57 - 13:03:06","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、社會福利及衛生環境、教育及文化三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查：\n一、本院委員羅美玲等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n二、本院委員王定宇等16人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法增訂第二十一條之一條文草案」案。\n三、本院委員邱志偉等20人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、本院委員邱議瑩等19人擬具「外國專業人才延攬及僱用法第十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(第四案如經復議，則不予審查）。）","gazette":{"lineno":1186,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（12時56分）謝謝主席，有請國發會副主委。"],["主席：請高副主委。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：副主委好，臺灣面臨人口結構這樣的問題，相關的因應作為，基本上它的主責還是在國發會，所以今天經濟委員會才會召開這樣的會議。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["劉委員建國：我想人口結構快速轉變，這是對臺灣最大的一個挑戰，這個上位的計畫到底是什麼，我們至今沒有看過。當然針對外國人才延攬的相關計畫是由國發會主責，我必須要跟副主委探討，雖然今天前主委已經變成秘書長了，但他要面對的這件事情還是一樣要有一定的延續性，我要特別提到幾個面向來做一個參考：當人口結構快速轉變的時候，不管是經濟、教育、文化、產業等等無一倖免，只是快或慢遇到這樣的狀況。今天我們就是要針對專業外國人才來進行招攬，如果我們對照鄰近國家，與日本來做比較，副主委你覺得如果日本打70分，我們可以打幾分？用簡單的數據講一下就好。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：日本打70分的話，我想我們也應該是及格，可以打60分。"],["劉委員建國：可以嗎？你確定？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：如果就……"],["劉委員建國：以日本擁有的專業技術高端外國人才來看，截至2023年10月大約有60萬人，比2018年的27萬人左右足足增加了一倍多，我們現在呢？小英在2021年8月推動強化人口及移民政策，這個專案我們在實施，就誠如你剛剛所講的Talent Taiwan，我們設定的目標是2030年要達到40萬人，沒有錯吧！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["劉委員建國：他們在2023年已經達到60萬人，我們到2030年才要達到40萬人？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：40萬人是根據我們評估到2030年我們的人才跟人力的缺口，我們估算出來的，因為我們跟日本的人口數量也不太一樣。"],["劉委員建國：對，我們比例是不一樣的，比例和占比不一樣，這個我很清楚，但是你有沒有發覺另外一個數據？第一個，這個人數當然是按照人口比例及相關需求去做評估，這個我可以接受，但是你注意看，它是到2023年（去年）就已經達到60萬人，我們是到2030年才要達到40萬人。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["劉委員建國：居留五年以上的目前為止只有3,339人，居留三年以上的只有261人，我不曉得為什麼這個比例如此之低？這個數據你們應該有嘛！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["劉委員建國：如果按照這樣的話，到2030年可以延攬所謂的外國相關人才達到40萬人，我覺得確實有很大的問題，這是第一件事情，請副主委等一下答復我。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。"],["劉委員建國：第二個，延攬國外人才來到臺灣，他絕對是散落在每一個縣市，這是不爭的事實，對不對？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：對。"],["劉委員建國：中央要推動這樣的政策，目前為止，有跟22縣市當中的哪一個縣市具體合作，讓比例較多的外國人才留在這個縣市得到更好的照顧、更好的互動環境嗎？有嗎？不然只有你中央在做，地方政府對這件事情根本跟我們完全沒有連結，我們跟地方政府也完全沒有任何的互動機制，他們就是散落在22個縣市裡面，這不是很奇怪嗎？","我再講一個日本的例子，你看日本的新宿區，他們就有個地方自治條例，他們有二十多個委員組成一個組織，跟住在新宿區的相關外籍人士有定期的聚會，協助他們生活上的需求，甚至於讓他們的文化可以融入到當地的新宿區去做最好的連結，我們有嗎？你可以舉一個案例嗎？看看在22個縣市當中，國發會跟哪一個縣市有做類似這樣的政策？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：跟委員報告，針對臺灣人口結構的變化，我們有一個叫人才及移民的首長會議，有做跨部會的協調，在這個會議裡面，其實我們過去幾年提出了一些比較創新的作法跟作為，都是在這個會議裡面達成的協議，包括勞動部、教育部、內政部，甚至僑委會等相關部會，的確在跨部會的橫向聯繫上面，我們是有做到。就如委員說的，我們還是以中央政府的角度去……我們跨部會是希望由各個部會往下去做跟地方的鏈結。以國發會來說，在那個層級裡面的確沒有直接對應到地方政府，而是透過各個主管的部會所實施的政策裡面，由他們去做中央跟地方之間的……"],["劉委員建國：副主委，我的時間到了。其實很清楚嘛，你講的第一段是中央跨部會的部分有做，對於散落到各縣市的這些外籍人士，我們跨部會的哪一個部會也有跟地方政府連結？我跟你講還是沒有啦！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["劉委員建國：如果都沒有的情況之下，這些人要怎麼留在這個地方，讓他們不會有五年的、三年的比例這麼低？我們要達到2030年有40萬幾乎是不可能發生的事情啦！現在的秘書長也要面對，你們做了很多的地方創生，為什麼沒有去做這樣的一個連結？我真的不懂。因為時間的關係，我希望是不是可以全面地再去做一個思考，對照其他國家，人家有很好的執行案例，我們可以真正地讓這些外國人才留得住、留得久，幫助臺灣面對整體結構快速轉變來做最好的因應嘛！"],["高副主任委員仙桂：是。"],["劉委員建國：一個月。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好。謝謝委員提供我們這樣的資訊，我們會從這個方向思考，看看我們怎麼樣加強中央跟地方之間在攬才上面的相關鏈結，好不好？"],["劉委員建國：好，一個月之內提供相關規劃期程，可以讓我參考，好不好？"],["高副主任委員仙桂：好，我們再提供給委員。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝主席。"],["高副主任委員仙桂：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉建國委員。","登記發言的委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。另外有陳昭姿委員、張嘉郡委員、莊瑞雄委員、盧縣一委員、邱鎮軍委員、蘇清泉委員、林淑芬委員、陳超明委員所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":76,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,26,22-1","speakers":["邱議瑩","王定宇","羅美玲","陳亭妃","林岱樺","邱志偉","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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