{"error":false,"id":["152880"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152880,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152880","日期":"2024-05-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-23T10:04:05+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-23T10:11:29+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453daf2563bf4bd26c5f1f99622ceb699a7d34e896d657c5e83832af3c97282b30b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"10:04:05 - 10:11:29","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n（一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":370,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（10時4分）謝謝主席，請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員鎂：委員早。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，公平會最重要要對於獨占行為及聯合行為的限制競爭，或者是不公平的競爭行為，公平會都要發揮最積極的作用，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：如果有違反了禁止事業體之合併，有違法、罪證確鑿的就要開重罰，是不是？","上週二，Uber Eats宣布要用9億5,000萬元的美金併購foodpanda，雖然這個併購在5月14號已經送件到公平會，但是所有的消費者開始緊張了，他們的權益會受到損失，尤其是foodpanda跟Uber Eats他們兩家占有外送平台將近八成的市場，在這種情形之下，獨占市場的情形就有可能會發生，但我們看到公平會並沒有禁止這獨占市場的存在，我們擔心這會影響公平競爭的行為，所以如果發生，公平交易法都要重罰。我在這邊再次提醒公平會，你們的職掌、職責一定要積極做到，想請問主委，現在他們送件進去需要多少時間來審查？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們要先看他們的文件是不是齊備，有一些規定的文件，文件齊備以後開始受理，那是30天的審查期間，必要的時候可以再延長60天。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在有沒有附加條件避免他們的限制競爭呢？"],["李主任委員鎂：要經過審查以後，如果我們同意的話，要不要附加條件，委員會會去討論，如果不同意這個結合案，就沒有附加條件的問題。"],["呂委員玉玲：會這樣提醒主委，是因為他們只要合併了就會減少競爭對手，在整個獨占市場上，很多人都會擔心市場漲價的風險提高，所以我們希望不要影響到消費者、餐飲業，還有勞動的權益，這是非常重要的，因為我們一定要避免「整碗捧走」的情形發生，所以一定要有附加條件，對所有的消費者跟外送人員，以及經營餐飲業者要如何去保障他們的權益。","特別要提到的是，餐飲業被外送平台抽成將近三成到四成，結果外送平台的外送人員得到的沒有超過10%，這整個市場競爭跟成本問題，公平會一定要非常瞭解，所以才會要求你們一定要有附加條件，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明……"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，你可以保證做得到嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：跟委員說明，我們審查的結果，如果禁止結合，那就是禁止、不可以結合，也就不會再有附加條件；如果同意結合……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，我們是擔心同意結合之後，所有人都會被影響權益、權益會受損，所以才要你們有附加條件。"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們對於外送員、餐廳甚至消費者可能受到的影響都會一起評估。"],["呂委員玉玲：一定要評估喔！因為之前統一跟維力，還有好樂迪跟錢櫃，他們在合併的時候，當時你們禁止他們的原因就是限制競爭的風險太高了，恐怕會影響整個市場消費的秩序，所以你們才會限制他們。這個情形你們也一併要考慮，不要有任何的疏漏，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是，我們會評估整個經濟利益有沒有大於限制競爭的不利益。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以本席也想請問一下，你們會開公聽會嗎？"],["李主任委員鎂：會，會開公聽會……"],["呂委員玉玲：會廣納各方面的意見？"],["李主任委員鎂：會、會。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，應該要廣納各方的意見。","我想問一下勞動部專員，這部分因為有關於外送人員權益的問題。"],["許專門委員根魁：委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：許專員喔？"],["許專門委員根魁：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：請問一下，如果合併的話，外送人員會不會全數順利留到這個轉換的平臺？"],["許專門委員根魁：跟委員回答……"],["呂委員玉玲：你們會保障這個權益嗎？"],["許專門委員根魁：這部分的話，因為他們的登錄……"],["呂委員玉玲：包括他們的計費方式，他們會全數轉換到另外一個平臺嗎？他們的收入才不會減少……"],["許專門委員根魁：他們會不會全數過去，其實牽涉到他們目前的登錄方式，他們有的同時在兩家……"],["呂委員玉玲：這就是外送人員的權益，因為在我們桃園，勞資糾紛就有39件，包括他們收入減少跟他們的權益……因為他們是屬於接單的，沒有辦法保障工作的持久性，所以你們勞動部一定要注意，跟公平會一起共同關心這個問題，一定要有一個合作的機制，是不是？"],["許專門委員根魁：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：好不好？"],["許專門委員根魁：好。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我想請勞動部跟公平會一定要確保外送人員的權益，讓外送人員都能夠穩定他們的工作，不會再有更多、更多的勞資糾紛，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：這部分我們也會跟勞動部來交換意見。"],["呂委員玉玲：因為這兩個外送平台如果真的合併了，整個市場的獨占情形就會發生，所以我們希望公平會在審理中一定要從嚴，而且要廣納我們社會的意見，如果說輕易地讓他們合併成真的話，後續限制競爭的情形一定也都會發生，希望這種事情一定要儘量去避免，不要讓消費者跟所有餐飲業的權益受到影響，請勞動部跟公平會對外送人員的工作權益都要好好的來保障，才能夠穩定整個市場的發展，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，你在這邊可以做一個保證嗎？我看到你們的態度好像已經有接受他們要合併了？"],["李主任委員鎂：因為目前還在蒐集資料，我們其實還沒有決定做什麼樣的決議，將來在評估的時候，剛才委員提到這些，包括餐廳、外送員、消費者等等，以及最重要對整個市場競爭秩序的影響，我們都會一起考量。"],["呂委員玉玲：希望主委對於你們職掌的責任能積極地發揮功能，來保障大家的權益，好不好？"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["呂委員玉玲：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝呂玉玲委員。","接下來請謝衣鳯委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-13","speakers":["邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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