{"error":false,"id":["152896"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152896,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152896","日期":"2024-05-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-23T10:46:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-23T10:52:19+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:21","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4537cd673e46a757491f1f99622ceb699a7d34e896d657c5e83fe107b1d166675e65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"10:46:58 - 10:52:19","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請公平交易委員會主任委員就「外送平台併購是否涉及限制競爭之調查程序、認定原則及對消費者權益影響之配套措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查：\n（一）本院委員邱志偉等16人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）本院委員楊瓊瓔等24人擬具「多層次傳銷管理法第十三條條文修正草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":647,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（10時46分）謝謝主席，我們請公平會李主委，還有鍾處長。"],["主席：李主委，還有消保處鍾處長。"],["李委員坤城：主委好。請問一下主委，對於Uber Eats要併購foodpanda這件事情，大概最晚何時會有結果？"],["李主任委員鎂：我們是5月14日收件，目前還在檢視這些文件是不是齊備，如果齊備了，30天的審查期間，必要的時候可以再延60天。"],["李委員坤城：如果這樣子，是到7月底？如果它文件齊備的話。"],["李主任委員鎂：現在文件還在審查當中，如果需要補正，還要再補正，所以要等補正完畢、文件齊備才開始起算這30天。"],["李委員坤城：我看你們的報告，你有四個審查的重點，最後就看它整體的經濟利益是否大於限制競爭之不利益，再做出准駁的決定嘛！"],["李主任委員鎂：是。"],["李委員坤城：這個整體經濟利益是否大於限制競爭之不利益，可不可以再做說明一下？"],["李主任委員鎂：我簡單的說明，我們觀察結合以後的市場集中程度；再來就是結合以後併購方是不是因為競爭對手減少了，有提高價格的情形；再來就是競爭者變少了，那是不是同業間聯合行為的風險會比較高，這也是考量；再來就是它的交易相對人，也就是今天大家非常關切的外送員、餐廳、消費者……"],["李委員坤城：主委，我聽你這樣講，如果真的被併了之後，真的是整體經濟利益會縮小，因為你所講的，它市場集中度變大了，它現在變成是一個寡占的市場，對不對？它是不是變成一個寡占的市場？"],["李主任委員鎂：整個市場因為它市占率會上來……"],["李委員坤城：所以它是一個寡占市場，是不是？"],["李主任委員鎂：寡占或者是獨占的市場。"],["李委員坤城：沒有，你們公平會對於寡占跟獨占有一個精準的定義，它是不是一個寡占的市場？"],["李主任委員鎂：目前是寡占，將來結合以後……"],["李委員坤城：就是寡占市場，你們公平會副主委都講這是一個寡占市場了，對不對？所以你講嘛！它是一個寡占市場。然後訂價能力，因為現在只剩下一家，又超過八成，訂價能力是不是都是由它來操控、來決定，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：將來結合以後，它是不是會有提高、提價的情形，這個是要再觀察、再評估。"],["李委員坤城：它合併之後，價格由它來決定嘛！對不對？我們先不管之後它是調漲、調降，它來決定嘛！對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：它的服務價格它自己決定。"],["李委員坤城：因為合併之後，價格它自己決定，而且它超過八成的市占率，它具有操控市場價格能力嘛！對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：就是它的市場力很大。"],["李委員坤城：所以我按照你們這四個審查的重點，你說要協同效果（聯合行為），它已經不只是一個聯合行為，因為它就是一個獨占市場，它已經是占八成的市場了，對不對？所以就你的四個審查重點來講，我自己判斷啦，它的整體經濟利益是會縮小的，對於我們社會一般的民眾來講，比現在的兩家以上存在的經濟利益會更小，對不對？"],["李主任委員鎂：我想這個部分，我們委員會會去討論。"],["李委員坤城：好，我請鍾處長，因為你就比較站在消費者立場來看啦！"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是。"],["李委員坤城：因為我有看到你們提到對於消費者的影響，第一個，選擇權被削弱嘛！對不對？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是。"],["李委員坤城：然後會員既有權益是否存續不確定嘛！"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：對。"],["李委員坤城：然後呢？合作店家的成本提高會轉嫁給消費者嘛！對不對？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：對，這是我們的擔憂。"],["李委員坤城：對。所以主委，你要聽一下。"],["李主任委員鎂：有，我在聽。"],["李委員坤城：鍾處長是代表消費者的，這是消費者保護處提供的資料嘛！所以你們未來在審查這兩家合併的時候，這是站在消費者、一般民眾的重要參考意見，對不對？所以我問一下鍾處長，對於這兩家合併，你認為會有什麼樣的影響？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：我們認為的影響就是如同剛剛委員在我們的報告裡面看到的這一些，因為公平會在審查過程當中，依照以往他們都會開座談會或公聽會，我們到時候會看資料，因為我們現在手上也沒有，所以我們會看報紙上的資料或者開會的資料，並且站在消費者的立場，除了剛剛的三點以外，如果在資料上面有什麼顯示我們認為對消費者不利的部分，我們未來也會在那個會上提供意見給公平會委員會議在做決定的時候給他們參考。"],["李委員坤城：所以站在消費者立場，是否認為這兩家未來萬一合併的話，對消費者來講其實是產生比較不利的影響？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：我們擔憂會這樣啦！"],["李委員坤城：這樣子喔！主委，你要聽清楚，這個是代表消費者的心聲，好不好？"],["鍾處長瑞蘭：是。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝主委、謝謝處長，謝謝主席！"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員。","接下來我們請羅智強委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-13","speakers":["邱議瑩","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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價格由他來決定嘛對不對我們先不管說他是調漲調降他來決定嘛對不對他的服務價格他自己決定價格他因為合併之後價格他自己決定而且他照顧八成的市佔率嘛他就有操控市場價格能力嘛對不對"},{"start":180.632,"end":204.854,"text":"市場就是他的市場力很大對啊那所以呢我按照你們這個四個審查的重點你說他協同的效果聯合行為他已經不只是一個聯合行為因為他就是一個獨佔市場他已經是佔八成的市場了嘛對不對那所以就這個你的四個審查重點來講我自己判斷啦他的這一個整體經濟利益齁"},{"start":208.104,"end":234.709,"text":"對於這個我們社會的一般的民眾來講他比會現在的這一個兩家以上存在的這個經濟力會更小對不對我想這我們委員會會去討論好我請中處長因為你就比較站在這個消費者立場來看啦因為我看到說你們對於這個消費者影響第一個選擇權被削弱嘛對不對是然後呢這個既有會員既有權益是否存續不確定嘛對不對對"},{"start":236.021,"end":237.062,"text":"主委,您要聽一下。"},{"start":247.744,"end":265.857,"text":"這個中處長還代表消費者的這個是消費者保護處的這個提供的資料嘛對於你們未來在審查這兩家合併的時候這是消費者正在消費者正在一般民眾的一個專案的參考的意見嗎對不對那所以我問一下中處長那你對於這兩家合併你認為會有什麼樣的影響"},{"start":269.771,"end":295.698,"text":"我們的影響就是如同剛剛委員在我們的報告裡面看到的這些那所以我們未來就是因為公平會在審查過程當中依照以往他們都會開座談會或公聽會那我們會到時候會看資料因為我們現在手上也沒有所以我們會看報告上的資料或者開會的資料然後針對這個站在消費者的立場除了剛剛三點以外如果在資料上面有什麼顯示我們認為對消費者不利的部分我們也會在那個會上提供意見給公平會"},{"start":296.198,"end":320.568,"text":"委員會議在做決定的時候給他們參考所以站在這個消費者立場是否認為說這兩家未來萬一合併的話對消費者其實來講是產生比較不利的影響我們擔憂會這樣啦這樣子喔對啊欸 這個主委你要聽清楚這個是代表消費者的心聲好不好是好 謝謝主委 謝謝處長 謝謝主席好 謝謝李坤城委員接下來我們請羅志強委員發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}