{"error":false,"id":["152912"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152912,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152912","日期":"2024-05-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-25","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":25,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-23T11:22:40+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-23T11:31:05+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa453654ea61846536d5fbde51848baade829d34e896d657c5e83a64db3ebae0f41b75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"11:22:40 - 11:31:05","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共4案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於行政院人事行政總處主管預算凍結項目共1案。\n三、併案審查\n（一）行政院函請審議「洗錢防制法修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第五條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員郭國文等16人擬具「洗錢防制法第五條及第六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（四）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「洗錢防制法部分條文修正草案」案。\n【第三案（一）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查；（四）如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":1099,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時22分）主席，楊瓊瓔發言。我想今天我們還是回歸今天的主題，洗錢防制法跟立法院的解凍案，本席首先要請周秘書長。"],["主席：請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：秘書長，其實5月17號我發覺你真的委屈了，當你被推在地上、你的文件都被搶走，我們真的都傻眼了，史上頭一遭！我也看到我們議事組人員被嗆聲，我真的滿難過的，我們是一個理性的國家，民主國家不應當有這樣的行為。所以我還是呼籲我們藍、綠、白的委員，大家都是為臺灣努力，我們應該要好好地問政，不要再有那種暴力，連議事組人員都嗆聲，這是不對的行為！當然我也可以瞭解，在整個氛圍當中大家會有情緒，但是情緒之後我們仍舊希望大家冷靜下來。","所以針對今天的解凍案，包括了資訊設備與入口平臺、公報行政等這些，本席認為，今天在英明召集人的主持之下，希望能夠好好理性討論，該解凍的就解凍，為什麼我首先要提出這一點，因為公報對我們來講很重要，當天很多委員都在吶喊：我沒有看到資料！這也就是我們在公報當中，以及現場所印出來的條文跟資料，都非常的清楚。本席也是希望，雖然我不是參加司法委員會，我是經濟委員會，但是我身為立法院的一員，我仍舊希望在我剛剛所說的這個項下，待會大家實質討論的時候，有必要的就儘快解凍，因為這個對於我們整個議事來講是非常重要的。所以首先我要請教秘書長，當天那一種情況，你心裡做何感想？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為只是一個剎那間的感覺，我倒也沒有覺得什麼特別，關於郭委員對我有這個行為，我當時都不會去想到這個東西，其實那是書，不是資料……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你手上拿的那個到底是什麼東西？"],["周秘書長萬來：我拿的是兩本我的書，當時因為早上為了表決、重付表決，同事裡面有疑慮，所以我就拿了那本書，因為裡面有一個高鐵的案子要跟他們說明，是有這樣的情況，當時那個議事例是這樣處理，表決的時候是無記名，重付表決也是無記名，因為同事不太瞭解，所以我把那本書拿來給他看。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你把你的法寶、你的兩本書拿來啦！剛才本席也說了，也就是說，當時的氛圍，大家的情緒，似乎我們都可以理解，但是我希望不要再有這種暴力的行為。","現在大家在說為什麼會提出舉手表決，在聯合國、在德國，像這些國家都有，在這樣的情況之下，因為依照議事規則的規範，在這個規範當中，大家去做調整。我還要請問秘書長，當時我們休息協商，經過了幾次的朝野協商，對不對？有到後面協商，對不對？"],["周秘書長萬來：有協商。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我似乎聽到三黨當中有人說，我們大家都回來坐著，好好來表決，但是協商不成，有人反對，對不對？是不是？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為協商當時是不公開，所以我不予在這邊做報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就是結果論，你們出去有人提到這樣的意見，但是協商不成，到底誰反對？大家都回來坐在椅子上，好好的來用表決器表決？協商不成就是一定有人反對，到底誰反對？本席之所以會提出這樣的論點，就是希望我們不要給社會大眾不正確的訊息，接下來我放一段影片，我是不忍心放，但是我覺得要還原事實，我放一分鐘的影片。","（播放影片）"],["楊委員瓊瓔：誰在抽表決卡？誰搶回表決卡？很清楚，是誰在抽！影像證明一切嘛！影像代表一切，這一些都是公開透明的，所以我做一個結論，立法院是這麼這麼的重要，我們代表民意，我們希望好好來討論，希望大家藍、綠、白都不要說不正確的訊息給社會大眾。","最後一個議題本席要請教，因為國會在這邊，範圍非常的小，上一屆的游錫堃院長，他非常的用心，這一點我欽佩他，他到各地，只要有人提議國會可以轉到哪裡的地點，他就一個一個去拜會、一個一個去看，像我建議到臺中，所以游院長到臺中的時候，我自己本身親自陪同，所以這個目前也列在這一屆的項目之內嗎？進度如何？請教。"],["周秘書長萬來：我請廖處長跟你比較詳細的說明，現在已經有呈報給韓院長了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在的進度怎麼樣呢？處長請做說明。"],["廖處長烱志：報告，現在我們總務處已經簽報，等朝野協商決定後的地點，我們會進行後續的可行性評估。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。所以是現在進行式當中，你已經簽報，就等三黨朝野協商，我充分建議，在我們臺中是最棒的，高雄來OK，花東來OK，北部下去OK，大家最公平，本席建議。","周秘書長辛苦了，議事人員辛苦了，謝謝。"],["周秘書長萬來：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。因為剛剛、先前徵得委員會同意，我們在11點半郭國文委員詢答後，我們就進行處理。請郭委員進行發言，因為11點半要開始處理提案，所以在這邊預作宣告，我們就不再受理臨時提案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-25","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","陳俊宇","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","郭國文","黃國昌","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","吳宗憲","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-05-23"],"gazette_id":"1135001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理113年度中央政府總預算關於立法院主管預算凍結項目共 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等一下 等一下 等一下 現在要開外賣嗎?對啊 沒關係 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