{"error":false,"id":["152933"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152933,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152933","日期":"2024-05-23","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-23T12:46:39+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-23T13:01:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d339c8d1909fa4535d2ad23962900c389f2fcaa3dc194f73d34e896d657c5e832be3067e3bd88ef65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"劉建國","委員發言時間":"12:46:39 - 13:01:01","會議時間":"2024-05-23T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第17次全體委員會議（事由：邀請勞動部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月22日、23日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1205,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（12時46分）謝謝主席，有請何部長。"],["主席：請何部長。"],["何部長佩珊：委員好。"],["劉委員建國：部長好，先跟你恭喜，有沒有信心？"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。您有信心，我就有信心。"],["劉委員建國：這句話我不曉得怎麼答復你。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝。"],["劉委員建國：我的信心是你絕對會做得比許前部長更久，因為他是在勞動部創下在任最久的部長，所以我有信心，那你有沒有信心？"],["何部長佩珊：要看質量啦，不要看……"],["劉委員建國：你剛才說要看我有信心，你就有信心，我有信心啊！你要打破他的任期。"],["何部長佩珊：謝謝委員支持。"],["劉委員建國：我想不只是做得長，還是要為勞工營造更多良善的勞動環境，提高他們更好的權利，應該是部長最主要的目標，所以就沒有蜜月期了；既然沒有蜜月期，我就直接無縫接軌來承接許前部長一些未盡的事情。上週我特別在這個委員會質詢許前部長，提到臺灣有8.5萬個失聯勞工，針對這個議題，許部長有跟你交接嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：其實這是一個長久的問題，行政院也有跟他一起討論過。"],["劉委員建國：是啊！OK。"],["何部長佩珊：其實應該是行政院要我們整個跨部會統合處理這個問題。"],["劉委員建國：對，其實它一定是牽涉到跨部會，之前你也貴為副秘書長，對這個事情應該瞭若指掌，應該不只八點多萬人了。"],["何部長佩珊：對，不只。"],["劉委員建國：一直在攀升嘛，這會有國安的問題，所以連國安單位都要來處理，你會看到還有人權、還有安全、還有治安都是一大隱憂。台體大「守護神」赴賽途中被撞死，闖紅燈的是失聯移工，我簡單舉一個例子，還有很多很多事件，針對這8.5萬個失聯移工，全部是仰賴移民署專勤隊五百多位辛苦的同仁，實在根本不符合比例原則。在今年的2月16日，臺灣及印度已經用視訊簽署勞務合作（MOU），未來臺印的移工引進，這項業務部長也應該要承接起來，我這邊一直要提到的，當我們已經有超過8.5萬個失聯移工，現在又引進印度移工，破口會不會更大？相對的國安、治安問題會不會接受更大、更嚴峻的挑戰？"],["何部長佩珊：對，這一定要列入考慮啦！因為臺印MOU現在還要經立院審查，事實上還沒有往下談，因為我們必須經過立院的審查之後，我們才能往下走，然後才會觸及要多少人，然後安全機制要怎麼把關等等這些的，我們一定會把它列入談判的這個……"],["劉委員建國：OK，但是我還是建議啦，就是一定的比例引進外勞非常重要啦！"],["何部長佩珊：對。"],["劉委員建國：一定的比例，你們一定要全盤去做一個考量。"],["何部長佩珊：是，要控管啦！"],["劉委員建國：勞動部在4月26號有特別發布一個新聞稿表示要修就業服務法，要加重僱用非法移工的雇主，所以我在這邊要特別要求部長，針對這次修法澈底去盤點相關的機制，不要再讓失聯的移工持續擴大，不只如此，也不能再仰賴只有五百多位的移民署專勤隊人員，所以新部長要接受新挑戰。"],["何部長佩珊：對，其實跟委員報告，我們的外勞管理從早年的二十幾萬人到現在快一百萬人了，我們的勞動力發展署其實也面臨同樣的困境，就是它用很少的人來管這麼龐大的移工，而這又不是只有勞動力發展署一個單位能夠承擔的問題，因為它已經是一個小社會了，它有它方方面面的問題，所以就業服務法說真的必須全盤檢視，而且可能還要大調整這樣子，我覺得是我上任以後也是非常重要的一個努力的工作。"],["劉委員建國：所以這個事情就成為部長剛上任的重中之重的議題了？"],["何部長佩珊：是，有。"],["劉委員建國：OK。"],["何部長佩珊：我已經請發展署開始來處理了，我們已經開始往這個方向來看怎麼樣能夠是不是機關的調整上面，甚至包括跟移民署的整合等等各方面，我們也必須跟行政院報告這樣子。"],["劉委員建國：因為去年很多相關的機關都升級起來，而且也有擴大人力上的補充嘛！對不對？"],["何部長佩珊：對，牽涉到組改。"],["劉委員建國：勞動部如果到現在要面對這個事情，然後只有專靠移民署還有我們的發展署在做處理的話，絕對緩不濟急、杯水車薪嘛！"],["何部長佩珊：真的是捉襟見肘。"],["劉委員建國：所以就請部長把這個事情列為重中之重來因應。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["劉委員建國：另外一件事情，我們知道去年發生剴剴案，也特別在這個地方去凸顯社工師的嚴重缺工問題，衛福部在去年統計全國22個縣市社工需求將近4,200人，但是進用人數差不多3,700左右，進用率不到9成，尤其新北市的需求量最高，進用率只有7成1，未來5年臺灣的社工需要是4,185人左右，然後現在每年願意投入社工師的行列是685，結果5年之後還是不足，甚至於不到9成了喔，這可以精算一下。因為目前的人力不足所以讓社工師陷入到三高：高風險、高案量、高壓力；和三缺：缺乏督導、合作、資源，在這種惡劣的工作環境中。","勞動部有公告，跟我們勞動部有關係的就是外國人從事就業服務法第四十六條第一項第一款至第六款，工作資格及審查標準的修正草案，昨天在經濟委員會3個委員會才聯席，就外國專業人才的攬才久留的計畫，我特別跟國發會副主委……昨天是副主委來備詢，我跟他講說我們很多地方必須要去做修正，我們看到相關的機制，真的我們這個目標是沒辦法達成，國發會主委現在去當秘書長，我想這事情他必須要統籌，但是站在勞動部這個地方，我們將社工師納入這個條文、審查標準跟工作資格，我已經把社工師納入進去，然後也在2月就已經公告14天嘛，所以已經過了預告期，部長應該有掌握，OK，但是國內的社福團體也都非常歡迎外籍的社工師加入，尤其臺灣就學的僑外生，他們過去在臺灣讀完相關的社工學系，然後也取得社工師資格，但一直到目前為止仍無法在臺灣的社工領域裡面去就業，這是很矛盾也非常可惜的一件事情，既然現在有這樣的突破，我就請部長可能要加緊腳步了，儘速完成這個辦法的修正以及公告，讓更多符合這個資格的僑外生還有外籍人士可以投入到臺灣社工師的行列，所以要特別要求部長一個月內……"],["何部長佩珊：好，沒問題，我們一個月內一定做得到。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。再請部長看這兩張表，部長還不曉得，司法院不足人數2、已進用人數11、法定人數13；宜蘭，我看我就講中央單位，全部都是公家單位，然後有國家環境研究院不足人數1、已進用人數3；新竹某個國民小學不足人數1、已進用人數4；還有我們的少年家事法庭，還有差最多的國軍高雄總醫院附設民眾診療服務處，已進用人數……對不起，缺額都是1、2左右。右邊是民間的公司，中鋼往往都排在第一名，不足19，中鼎18，還有光寶科技12，星宇航空10，還有緯創資通，緯創是不是AI那一家？上市那一家對不對？現在通稱叫AI嘛！他這個「黑白哀」，不足9，還不足9，啓碁還有高通半導體噠噠噠，應該在這邊，總共有多少？總共有1,391家，上市上櫃一大堆。部長，你知道我提供這資料是什麼嗎？就是身障勞工未進用足額的單位，公部門1到2月就多達13個單位，就左邊這個資料，然後在民間的企業就高達1,391家，我這個厚厚一疊總共35頁，然後實際上未進用足額，這些不足額的職缺，到目前為止將近2,000人，這就很奇怪了，中鋼也排第一，好像永久它都排第一，然後相關的這些上市櫃的公司股票一直漲，身障朋友一直不補，這沒道理啊！我們當然有罰則嘛！但是因為股票漲了，公司賺錢了，所以就罰得起了，所以繳錢就免聘了嗎？這真的沒有道理，我等一下把這份資料給部長做參考。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["劉委員建國：你看將近還有2,000個身障的職缺，這講不過去，然後中鋼為什麼一直排第一名？中鋼股票沒有漲嗎？"],["何部長佩珊：委員，我們也可以跟金管會要求把它列入上市櫃公司的揭露事項，列入SDGs的那個永續報告……"],["劉委員建國：揭露應該是有囉，我記得揭露應該是有喔！"],["何部長佩珊：可能沒有揭露在那個永續報告書裡面吧！"],["劉委員建國：對。"],["何部長佩珊：它沒有列為永續報告書項目，我們現在就是準備把一系列勞權的事項跟金管會協商，要求它列入SDGs的報告裡面，這樣就可以造成他們一點社會壓力，因為其實臺灣的上市櫃企業長久以來也沒有被很要求社會企業責任，所以這個確實是必須要檢討的，也是要跨部會處理。"],["劉委員建國：我們發展署有對外表示說有持續在改善中，但是部長你可以看厚厚這一疊，一千三百多家。"],["何部長佩珊：是，謝謝委員。"],["劉委員建國：2,000個名額嘛！然後我希望……"],["何部長佩珊：我們把這個資料掌握起來。"],["劉委員建國：OK，我希望部長就新官上任三把火，如果在你上任沒多久的時間裡面可以讓這些民間還有我們公立單位趕快把這些身障的員額補足，我想這是一個對臺灣社會很有交代的一件事情，然後也是鼓勵身障朋友，讓他們有這樣的一個工作機會。不只如此啦，其實每次在問這個事情的時候，大家都會講，因為某一個公司、某一個公立單位就講說就退休了，退休之後就沒有人來補，很奇怪，為什麼都不是準備要退休之前就開始來做這些動作？所以這個交代不過去啦！另外有些單位，你像中鋼一定會講說我這個單位根本就沒有辦法讓這些身障的朋友來到這個工作環境裡面，這個是推託之詞啦，你看之前有個企業，它進用視障按摩師為正式員工，然後專門開一個按摩部門替工作壓力緊張的員工來按摩紓壓，營造良好的職場環境，這是一個案例，不只這個案例，應該有很多案例，我相信勞動部如果搜索一下就可以把相關的有良……也就是說願意來照顧這些身障朋友，也願意符合我們相關的這些規定的好企業，我覺得我們應該去獎勵嘛！"],["何部長佩珊：好，對，我們要表揚願意用的企業，也要表揚他們……"],["劉委員建國：讓他們這樣的作為可以散發出去，讓各行各業知道，人家為什麼可以這樣做，你們為什麼做不到，為什麼到現在還沒有辦法進用到足額，就交代不過去嘛！我相信要用更好的這種方式來做處理，好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["劉委員建國：這個是不是一個月內來規劃？絕對可以來做啦！"],["何部長佩珊：可以。"],["劉委員建國：如果短時間內……"],["何部長佩珊：現在就有金展獎在表揚，我們邀請委員來一起……"],["劉委員建國：不是、不是，你們不用邀請我，我也沒有……我是覺得不只是表揚，應該是對這些，到現在不足19人、18人、13人、10人，很多嘛！這些單位應該要怎麼樣做一個加強的督導、加強的要求嘛！2,000個員額耶！好不好？"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["劉委員建國：請部長在一個月內規劃完成。"],["何部長佩珊：好。"],["劉委員建國：謝謝主席、謝謝部長、謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":464,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-17","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","蘇清泉","王育敏","涂權吉","林淑芬","王正旭","鄭天財Sra 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這個是不是一個月內來規劃啦絕對可以來做啦 對不對如果短時間內"},{"start":823.272,"end":849.68,"text":"現在就有在表揚嗎?金展獎我們邀請委員來一起好嗎?不是不是你別邀請我我是覺得不只是表揚嘛應該是對這些到現在不足19人、18人、13人10人很多嘛對這些單位應該要怎麼樣來做一個加強的督導嘛加強的要求嘛對2000個員額勒"},{"start":853.936,"end":854.256,"text":"謝謝劉建國委員的發言"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}