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09:39:45","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於數位發展部主管預算凍結案計11案。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":154,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（9時31分）謝謝主席，本席邀請數發部黃部長。"],["主席：請黃部長。"],["黃部長彥男：林委員好。"],["林委員俊憲：部長，今天很多人都來關心詐騙的問題，我想你剛上任，大家一定也期許數發部未來在打詐方面要有相當的作為，那你也把打詐列為你非常重要的工作，所以你都有提出打詐專法等等之類。你覺得現在詐騙最嚴重的是在哪裡？是網路詐騙嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：就是廣告，就是假名人、假投資。"],["林委員俊憲：假投資嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員俊憲：根據我們刑事警察局、警政署的統計資料，現在投資詐騙案就是騙你來投資、買股票，大概占了31%，可能是因為所謂投資股票就是會賺錢，這是人性的貪念，現在有很多廣告都是投資詐騙，竟然占了三成，去年就有一萬一千多件，比前年多了快80%，所以成長最多的就是這種騙你來投資的詐騙，尤其是用一些社會的名人當作誘餌，那你覺得現在最大的問題是什麼？為什麼這種網路上的詐騙廣告這麼猖獗？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，當然我們有幾個平臺，就是剛剛講的Meta、facebook、LINE還有像Google這些平臺，我想有很多廣告是從那邊出來的，我剛才有特別強調，就是我們希望在打詐專法通過之後，這些廣告平臺商會在臺灣設法律代表或是落地，如果他們能夠配合我們政府來做打詐工作，把這些杜絕之後，我相信所謂名人廣告各方面應該會大量減少，而且我們現在有電子簽章法，然後在數位簽章通過之後，我們可以要求登廣告第一個一定要有數位簽章，一定要經KYC確認是本人，包括廣告投放跟出資者都要能夠……"],["林委員俊憲：現在法律沒有通過以前你就沒辦法管他們嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：在法律沒有通過以前，我們現在的作法是基本上……"],["林委員俊憲：立法、修法需要一段時間，之前就是因為這個數位服務法卡了那麼久，所以你現在不能說我們必須要有法律通過你才能做事情。"],["黃部長彥男：跟委員報告，以前的通報是我們民眾打165，然後165處理，這個時程可能要隔了半天、一天以上的時間才會通報facebook去處理，現在我們剛剛講的這個打詐通報查詢網會即時。"],["林委員俊憲：我知道，你現在要建立一個打詐的平臺啦！"],["黃部長彥男：對，然後能夠快速通報。"],["林委員俊憲：你是準備要取代165詐騙專線嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：不是取代165，那個還是要做，現在因為疑似詐騙跟真正被詐騙是兩回事，所以疑似詐騙就可以到通報網來查詢。"],["林委員俊憲：我來跟你說，你現在最重要還是源頭管理，你現在是他律嘛！你現在講的是政府要去約束這些平臺，但是所謂的打詐第一個要做的就是這些平臺要自律。"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯。"],["林委員俊憲：可是目前他們完全不做相關的事情。根據我們警政署統計的資料，我們把詐騙廣告拉下來的數量是非常大，好幾萬筆廣告通通拉下來，但是你拉下來以後，沒多久它又會上來，而且廣告內容一模一樣，表示這些平臺都是被動在處理，當我們發現這是詐騙，你通報它，它會做處理，但是新的上來它不管啦！你有聽懂我的意思嗎？因為它要賺錢啊！這些平臺都忘記他們還是有社會責任，對不對？"],["黃部長彥男：對，沒錯。"],["林委員俊憲：所以我們應該要求他們現在要先自律，平臺應該要先去核實、要去瞭解這些，尤其是商業廣告，像你剛剛講的那種實名制，政治廣告要不要實名制？"],["黃部長彥男：所有的廣告都要實名制沒錯，對啊！"],["林委員俊憲：現在沒有，現在只有政治廣告啊！"],["黃部長彥男：現在政治要。"],["林委員俊憲：現在只有政治廣告要認證，那商業廣告為什麼不要？詐騙在商業廣告嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：所以我們在打詐專法通過之後，他們也是……"],["林委員俊憲：對，你現在是無法可管。"],["黃部長彥男：對，現在是無法，但是希望很快就有。"],["林委員俊憲：你應該要求這些平臺業者，對不對？數發部如果兇一點，他們就怕你了！"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，我們已經在做……"],["林委員俊憲：因為社會公理站在你們這一邊嘛！"],["黃部長彥男：沒錯。"],["林委員俊憲：每年發生這麼多詐騙案件，如果你們硬一點，他們就……"],["黃部長彥男：我跟委員報告……"],["林委員俊憲：臺灣又不是沒有法律的地方，真的是亂來！"],["黃部長彥男：我跟委員報告，我會常常找他們來我辦公室喝咖啡，然後進行道德勸說，我們會繼續建立跟他們的關係，希望他們能夠……"],["林委員俊憲：如果他不改善，不是只有邀他來喝咖啡，你要跑去找他算帳。"],["黃部長彥男：沒有，我還會威脅他，不只是喝咖啡，還會威脅，我會跟他們講，你們如果不配合，我以後就跟大家宣傳，以後在臉書上看到的廣告都不能……"],["林委員俊憲：你注意看，我就給你做一個對比，拉下來的詐騙廣告很多，跟上去的差不多。"],["黃部長彥男：這個東西可以用剛剛講的道德勸說，在法規通過之前，用道德勸說、威脅，看看能不能配合我們。"],["林委員俊憲：所以這些平臺業者現在怎麼對付你？就是你有通報，好，我就配合政府拉下來，但是新的廣告來，錢送上來，我廣告費照收，甚至有些詐騙廣告的內容一模一樣還是照上，這樣你怎麼抓得完？對不對？既然我們的政治廣告都要求實名制了，未來商業廣告也是……"],["黃部長彥男：一定要，這個我們同意。"],["林委員俊憲：因為已經發生了那麼多的詐騙案件，是不是這樣子？"],["黃部長彥男：對，我想我們從法規、從剛剛講的很多……我們私底下都可以去要求，希望他們配合度高一點，然後看看所謂的名人的詐騙廣告或是各式各樣在平臺業者的廣告能夠大量減少，那希望……"],["林委員俊憲：另外，網路上的內容其實不是只有詐騙，詐騙以外的還有很多，例如假訊息、兒少暴力、性侵害等等，你現在要處理詐騙以外的嗎？你怎麼處理其他的內容？"],["黃部長彥男：將來就是一樣，就是說我們打詐的這個……"],["林委員俊憲：你預計那個數位服務法大概什麼時候要通過？"],["黃部長彥男：數位服務法……"],["林委員俊憲：就是你的打詐專法啦！"],["黃部長彥男：對，打詐專法在將來這些……"],["林委員俊憲：歐盟大概是全世界最早通過數位服務法的地方，你看今年歐盟的數位服務法開第一槍，就是去調查Twitter，因為Twitter在以色列跟巴勒斯坦戰爭的時候散播不實的訊息，你知道吧！"],["黃部長彥男：對。"],["林委員俊憲：也就是說，政府該管的不是只有詐騙，現在因為詐騙最嚴重，所以我們大家當然關注點在這裡，但是還有其他很多我們應該要處理的問題，你必須要同步，就是我們的法律也必須要跟得上，我希望在你上任以後應該儘速推動相關的立法工作，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：好，沒有問題。"],["林委員俊憲：跟社會以及國會議員也應該要多做溝通。"],["黃部長彥男：好，謝謝。"],["林委員俊憲：謝謝部長。"],["主席：好，林俊憲委員發言完畢。部長，先等一下，剛才不是威脅業者，應該是督促相關業者，請你更正一下。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","廖先翔","林國成","林俊憲","林沛祥","魯明哲","徐富癸","陳素月","何欣純","蔡其昌","許智傑","邱若華","黃健豪","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","葛如鈞","黃珊珊","洪孟楷","游顥","林月琴","李坤城","張啓楷","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","陳培瑜","羅智強"],"page_start":203,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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