{"error":false,"id":["152989"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152989,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152989","日期":"2024-05-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-27T09:40:22+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-27T09:50:48+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b377bf3fa64ef63c9b5186e4a1bc6f964ee1548db29109d24e46622ad7871bd4675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:40:22 - 09:50:48","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員林德福等19人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員楊瓊瓔等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員馬文君等25人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員黃建賓等20人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員呂玉玲等16人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條及第五十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員盧縣一等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員鄭正鈐等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員張嘉郡等30人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「就業服務法第四十六條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員萬美玲等36人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員馬文君等20人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱若華等16人擬具「勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案」案。\n【一（九） ：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【一(十)、(十一) ：如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【討論事項綜合詢答】\n【5月27日、29日二天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.63784375,"end":6.4772187500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":6.8990937500000005,"end":7.607843750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.52721875,"end":11.438468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":11.860343750000002,"end":22.086593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":22.59284375,"end":47.314718750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":47.500343750000006,"end":49.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.23846875,"end":56.815343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.18659375,"end":62.56971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.83971875,"end":98.19284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":98.42909375,"end":106.47846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":106.59659375000001,"end":109.95471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":110.10659375,"end":115.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.42221875000001,"end":119.43846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":119.80971875,"end":122.02034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.44221875000001,"end":123.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.48846875000001,"end":129.39471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":129.63096875000002,"end":133.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":133.96784375000001,"end":141.69659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":142.00034375,"end":151.11284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":146.20221875000001,"end":146.69159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":151.21409375000002,"end":154.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":154.18409375000002,"end":155.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":156.20909375000002,"end":161.81159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.27159375000002,"end":212.79096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.03096875,"end":162.06471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.28034375000001,"end":218.37659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.47784375,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.91221875000002,"end":221.83596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.19034375,"end":222.61221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":222.94971875000002,"end":227.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.26534375000003,"end":239.50409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":239.67284375000003,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.07284375,"end":272.81534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.13159375000004,"end":286.19721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.86409375,"end":288.86346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":287.95221875000004,"end":288.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.20096875,"end":292.08659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.45784375,"end":293.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":292.52534375,"end":293.63909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":293.67284375,"end":298.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.44846875,"end":298.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":299.32596875,"end":306.78471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.86596875000004,"end":300.13596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.32471875000005,"end":309.77159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":307.64534375,"end":335.55659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":309.85596875000005,"end":310.29471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":335.55659375000005,"end":340.88909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.07471875000005,"end":352.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":352.70159375000003,"end":353.15721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":353.68034375,"end":359.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.70909375,"end":360.49784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.04221875,"end":380.03909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.07034375,"end":369.22221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":369.27284375000005,"end":369.30659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":380.03909375,"end":385.52346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.12659375000004,"end":387.59909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.93659375000004,"end":389.79284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.13034375,"end":424.45409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":424.84221875000003,"end":428.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.06909375000004,"end":438.12284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":438.39284375000005,"end":456.02721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":456.02721875000003,"end":471.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":456.68534375,"end":456.93846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":471.13034375,"end":476.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":476.98596875000004,"end":483.87096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.44471875000005,"end":485.15346875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":485.42346875000004,"end":503.02409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.02409375,"end":516.23721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.50721875,"end":524.6240937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.5522187500001,"end":589.660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﹖﹖﹖"},{"start":122.503,"end":138.783,"text":"目前用一個所謂80歲就來放的話而不做任何的這樣子的一個區別的話他確實很可能會造成重度失能者被排擠然後當然就是轉到輕度失能這邊比較好顧嘛比較好算這樣子"},{"start":139.631,"end":153.618,"text":"所以我剛剛才強調我們現在的做法是希望能夠把它進行一個區別化就剛剛一塊是用多元認定另外一塊是用陪伴照顧服務然後希望這兩邊都能夠更精進這樣子那多元認定的方式當然貴委員會所提出來的修正案我們也都很重視是因為為什麼因為80歲以上像去看資料"},{"start":164.923,"end":188.831,"text":" ﹏﹏﹏"},{"start":189.641,"end":212.382,"text":"可是相對的這樣子照顧會不會造成依賴跟獨立性被剝奪甚至從數據來看八十歲以上的老人68%也是自認健康甚至八十歲以上的老人那五衰落的大概34.25%那輕度衰落的35.33那表示大概有70%所以對健康的老人除了陪伴之外不需要移工照顧"},{"start":213.608,"end":227.414,"text":"會不會是造成指派去做額外的工作就像我婆婆的看護工來之前她事實上是在被聘用的時候她是在小吃天為什麼她基本上事實上是說被"},{"start":228.331,"end":241.209,"text":"指控家裡長輩可實際上他做的工作並不是這樣這就是現在我想部長不知道這樣知道這樣子的一個現況嗎就是在現行如果要開放85歲以上這樣輕度"},{"start":244.894,"end":246.195,"text":"〈勞動基準法第五十條條文修正草案〉案〉"},{"start":274.244,"end":285.688,"text":"是,委員當然這個所謂的假看護然後真的打工這確實在民間是有耳聞可是這個覺得是違法的因為我說連我婆婆的耳"},{"start":291.851,"end":306.545,"text":"是,這是違法的。我要明確指出這是違法的。當然去年我們常獲得23件。對。算很低耶。可是你看報紙上寫的都還算是。它常常可能是合併性的。"},{"start":307.458,"end":322.751,"text":"所以他又有照顧（所以德部長也要順帶一提啦因為目前所有的移工類別當中只有家庭看護工跟幫傭不適用勞基法那勞動部一直也沒有針對我們的移工跟僱主落落相殘的問題提出解方"},{"start":323.459,"end":351.433,"text":"那所以民間團體他們的表示也是說家庭看護工開放的門檻越放寬好像對於移工越不利那勞動部你對這個質疑你怎麼回應是就是因為這樣所以我們比較謹慎那麼我剛剛提的這個移工這個進入這個家庭照顧服務多元陪伴施辦方案其實就是為了這個就是因為我們希望能夠發展一個"},{"start":354.015,"end":378.834,"text":"並不是完全的政府聘僱啦而是由NGO監管下的至少他就會有勞保對不對對然後他由仲介來聘然後仲介來派事實上僱主是仲介啦不是那個案家這樣案家也比較輕鬆不必負僱主責任然後他也可以給這個移工勞基法跟勞保的保障這樣而有彈性化的服務甚至一對多的服務這樣子"},{"start":379.414,"end":405.746,"text":"好,謝謝部長。接下來是不是請我們的長照師的助師長。目前我們去年10月13號開始用CNS在做評估。所以請問一下,目前長照照專的人力只有2000多位,相當吃緊。可是這個問題關係到長照人力是否會遭到新制度的排擠。"},{"start":406.366,"end":428.63,"text":"所以請衛福部這邊可不可以說明使用長照服6個月以後我們的聘僱移工是否需要重新做CNS評估這一直搭連我們民間團體都不太清楚這種狀況因為2000個照專那目前有400萬的那個老人所以想問一下你們目前是不是還要去做重新做評估如果使用到6個月以後"},{"start":431.147,"end":458.921,"text":"使用六個月以後就是他本來就已經在長照體系的服務對象所以他的CMS的等級這個資料是清楚的那我們目前的CMS的評估基本上是一年負評一次所以要申請如果要走這個多元評估免評的這一塊他基本上是只要把他的那個相關有服務記錄因為連續要六個月使用照顧服務類的服務那我再問一個就是說"},{"start":459.381,"end":484.813,"text":"家庭看護工聘僱方式一直都有調整一定會牽動到長照所以除了人力資源的排擠甚至對於長照的使用量也會造成影響所以現在長照的需求等級是二到八級新制度是不是會腐爛到無論需求等級只要使用長照服務達六個月以上就可以銜接移工的聘僱"},{"start":485.793,"end":510.383,"text":"我們去年推出跟勞動部一起合作推出了多元免貧那個概念是長照服務他必須要使用所謂的B碼照顧服務類的那這個部分持續六個月每個月都有用這樣才可以符合多元免貧的機制長照服務事實上是國家提供的應對政策也要針對於我們因為高齡化的來臨"},{"start":511.323,"end":524.439,"text":"可是現在如果提80歲以上都去拼顧所謂的移工對於我們長照會不會影響崩盤接下使用量就反而會變低了?你的評估是什麼?"},{"start":526.493,"end":551.288,"text":"這塊確實我們在我們今天的的書面報告其實有提到如果以八十歲以上我們目前國家是九十一萬多人那我們手上確實有掌握他是屬於失能的這部分目前只佔百分之四十一所以換句話說大概五十三萬多人其實並不進入到我們所謂的失能的這樣的一個領域裡面那所以他基本是生活可以治理的"},{"start":551.988,"end":579.227,"text":"那剛剛也不同的委員都有提到就是說其實我們我們即使是這個我們國家或者是世界的這些相關的國家都強調的是希望要長輩能夠減少依賴能夠訓練自我照顧那我們其實也擔心因為我們國人過往引進移工有時候會變成就是比較茶來伸手飯來張口那其實有可能靠著這樣的依賴"},{"start":579.927,"end":608.1,"text":"所以也擔心說這樣子的能力會退化得更快所以我們的想法還是期待是說如果真的是用家庭看護工這個名義要引進的還是要否這個真的有照顧需求的大概是我們的想法是這樣好謝謝市長所以本席提出來希望能夠事實上是85歲以上而且是獨居無家人者那這個事實上是我們問民間團體尤其是老人福利團體們他們認為"},{"start":610.274,"end":623.154,"text":"這個可能是在照顧上的一個破口。那是不是有這個85歲以上有限定獨居家人者來作為一個聘僱的那個需求。以上謝謝。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}