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員於113年度中央政府總預算案審查報告與黨團協商之範例整理。五、113年度中央政府總預算案有關國立故宮博物院單位預算案及國立故宮博物院主管故宮文物藝術發展基金附屬單位預算案全部審查完均。"},{"start":2244.288,"end":2264.445,"text":"六、113年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案審查完畢,審查結果如下,稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償收入,中央研究院照列第四款財產收入,中央研究院原列473萬8千元增列第一幕財產知行,第二節租金收入19萬6千元,其一均照列改列為493萬4千元。"},{"start":2266.747,"end":2281.722,"text":"第七款其他收入中央研究院照列稅出部分第一款總統府主管中央研究院原列136億5498萬7千元除第五沐非營業特勇基金第一屆科學研究基金12億7153萬4千元"},{"start":2284.344,"end":2298.819,"text":"站照列自所屬分一頁特種基金審議確定在行調整外期預軍照列本項通過決議五十七項簽113年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院科學研究基金附屬單位預算案審查完畢。"},{"start":2299.7,"end":2323.31,"text":"審查結果如下。一、業務計劃依依據基金來源與用途審查結果隨同調整。二、基金來源用途及餘處。一、基金來源原列4187759000元。增列財產收入向下權利金收入200萬元。請以均兆列改列為4189759000元。二、基金用途兆列。三、本期剩餘原列2816萬增列200萬元改列為3016萬元。"},{"start":2328.272,"end":2355.22,"text":"三、截了公庫無劣數四、補辦預算固定資產建設改良擴充造劣八、一百一三年度中央政府總預算案有關中央研究院單位預算案及科學研究基金附屬單位預算案全部審查完略十一月、十六月討論事項一、今日審查一百一三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部及所屬單位預算案二、今日審查一百一三年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管"},{"start":2355.84,"end":2373.141,"text":"國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案。厲三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管文化發展基金附屬單位預算案。厲四、審查113年度行政法人國家表演藝術中心文化內容策進院國家電影及視聽文化中心預算案決議一"},{"start":2374.582,"end":2388.289,"text":"113年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部及所屬單位預算案審查完畢。審查結果如下。稅務部分第二款罰款及賠償稅務部文化部照列文化資產局照列影視及流行音樂產業局照列國立傳統藝術中心照列國立台灣美術館及所屬照列"},{"start":2393.411,"end":2421.766,"text":"國立臺灣工藝研究發展中心照列國立臺灣博物館五列數國立臺灣史前文化博物館五列數國家原權博物館五列數國立臺灣歷史博物館照列國立臺灣文學館五列數第三款貴費收入文化部照列文化資產局照列影視及流行音樂產業局照列國立臺灣美術館及所屬照列國立臺灣工藝研究發展中心照列國立臺灣博物館照列"},{"start":2422.566,"end":2448.806,"text":"國立台灣史前文化博物館照列國家人權博物館照列國立台灣歷史博物館照列國立台灣文學館照列第4款財產收入文化部照列文化資產局照列影視及流行音樂產業局照列國立傳統藝術中心照列國立台灣美術館及所屬照列國立台灣工藝研究發展中心照列國立台灣博物館照列國立台灣史前文化博物館照列國家人權博物館照列"},{"start":2449.466,"end":2476.599,"text":"國立臺灣歷史博物館照列國立臺灣文學館照列第7館其他收入文化部照列文化資產局照列影視及流行音樂產業局照列國立傳統藝術中心照列國立臺灣美術館及所屬照列國立臺灣工藝研究發展中心照列國立臺灣博物館照列國立臺灣史前文化博物館照列國家人權博物館照列國立臺灣歷史博物館照列國立臺灣文學館照列說出部分第19館文化部主管第一項"},{"start":2477.199,"end":2495.015,"text":"往後部委員列180億9027萬5千元除第10目非營業特種基金8673萬元佔照列自所屬非營業特種基金審議確定再行調整外檢列第9目蒙藏文化中心業務50萬元科目自行調整前以均價列改列為180億8977萬5千元本項通貨決議120項"},{"start":2500.359,"end":2524.031,"text":"第二項文化資產局照列本項通過決議19項第三項影視及流行音樂產業局照列本項通過決議12項第四項國立傳統藝術中心照列本項通過決議3項第五項國立台灣美術館及所屬照列本項通過決議3項第六項國立台灣工藝研究發展中心照列本項通過決議2項第七項國立台灣博物館照列本項通過決議3項"},{"start":2525.171,"end":2550.946,"text":"第8項國立臺灣史前文化博物館照列本項通過決議二項第9項國家人權博物館照列本項通過決議三項第10項臺灣歷史博物館照列本項通過決議一項第11項國立臺灣文學館照列二、113年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化機構作業基金附屬單位預算案審查完畢審查結果如下國立文化機構作業基金照案通過"},{"start":2552.767,"end":2580.537,"text":"通過決議一項。三、113年度中央政府總預算案有關文化部主管國立文化發展基金附屬單位預算案審查完據。審查結果如下。文化發展基金章通過。通過決議二項。四、113年度行政法人國家表演藝術中心預算案審查完據。明據審查報告提報院會不許加入黨團協商。院會討論時由政召集委員立文出席說明。審查結果如下。國家表演藝術中心113年度預算書案。章案通過。"},{"start":2581.437,"end":2599.162,"text":"通過決議三項五、113年度行政法人文化內容測經院預算案審查完畢明確審查報告提報議會不需交給黨團協商議會討論時由政交集委員立文補充說明審查結果有效文化內容測經院113年度預算書案照案通過"},{"start":2602.07,"end":2619.59,"text":"厲,113年度行政法人國家電影及視聽文化中心預算案審查完畢,依據審查報告提報院會不需加入黨團協商,院會討論時由政交集委員補充說明,審查結果如下國家電影及視聽文化中心103年度預算書案照案通過,通過決議項宣布完畢"},{"start":2636.82,"end":2639.953,"text":"請問各位委員上次會議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處?"},{"start":2643.134,"end":2644.295,"text":"好,我們現在介紹在場的委員。"},{"start":2673.434,"end":2697.488,"text":"首先是張亮萬堅委員陳秀寶委員介紹官員核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽核能安全委員會副主任委員國家原子能科技研究院董事長張欣"},{"start":2700.174,"end":2728.539,"text":"行政院主計總處公務預算處專門科員黃子涵行政院主計總處基金預算處科長周明正好,謝謝我們現在請陳主任委員進行報告時間8分鐘主席、各位委員、女士、先生大家好"},{"start":2729.707,"end":2755.673,"text":"今天很榮幸代表核能安全委員會並協同各單位主管向大院進行113年度的預算報告首先對於大院委員對核安會過去各項業務的推動以及預算編列的支持及指教至上敬意及謝承核安會的重點工作以核安首付核會處理為施政主軸聯合國"},{"start":2758.985,"end":2781.593,"text":"2030年永續發展目標為願景,定定強化原子能安全管制,確保公眾安全,推廣原子能科技創新,培育跨域人才,建立原子能關鍵技術,促進產業價值,發展能源及後端技術,推廣產業應用,為年度四大市政目標。"},{"start":2783.809,"end":2793.488,"text":"首先有關於公務預算部分配合行政院組織改造原子能委員會改制為三級獨立機關核能安全委員會"},{"start":2795.735,"end":2811.328,"text":"輻射偵測中心改制為四級機關放射性物料管理局並入核能安全委員會內部單位核能研究所改制為行政法人國家原子能科技研究院核安會及所屬113年度稅出編列30億1161萬8千元稅入編列1億4282萬4千元"},{"start":2821.577,"end":2836.124,"text":"期盼各位委員支持核安會的預算必立核安會執行法律賦予及民眾退戶的任務核安會妥善運用112年度的預算已經取得諸多重要成果"},{"start":2837.113,"end":2859.879,"text":"包括完成核三廠除疫計劃的審查作業核三廠二號機大修作業的管制推動醫療暴露的平保強化中央與地方輻射災害聯合應變機制日本寒川廢水排放跨部會的因應作業原子能科技學術合作研究以及原子能科普推廣等"},{"start":2861.664,"end":2872.957,"text":"核安會113年稅出編列29億2,409萬1千元其中在補助行政法人國家原子能科技研究院經費上編列21億2,161萬8千元"},{"start":2878.504,"end":2899.417,"text":"核安會重點工作包含持續核電廠除役放射性廢棄物處理及儲存的設施管制加強輻射安全防護與輻射醫療品質的管制精進輻射災害防救技術及事故的處理能力以及深化國際交流"},{"start":2900.66,"end":2925.669,"text":"跟合作推廣原子能科普跟全民溝通充實原子能科學發展人才培育提升國家科研量能等。偵測中心編列87527000元重點工作包含基本行政工作的維持台灣地區環境輻射的偵測台灣周邊海域海水川的監測"},{"start":2927.205,"end":2941.15,"text":"輻射偵測技術的建立以及新世代智慧輻射監測站等接著報告核子事故應變基金113年度基金用途預算編列1億128萬9千元較上年度增加682萬5千元主要系概列"},{"start":2950.236,"end":2972.302,"text":"增列汰換緊急應變業務所需之網路負載平衡設備以及屏東縣汰換到期點變的經費另外緊究112年度重要工作成果及113年度的預算編列重點報告如下112年度重要工作成果包括完成河岸第29號演習即有11212人參與"},{"start":2977.694,"end":3003.494,"text":"另外分別完成核子事故緊急應變法與相關法規的研修輻射應變資訊地圖導入空中偵測檔案與精進圖台的顯示功能在多元化溝通宣導方面包括足理疏散演練原子能科技科普展與地方政府的防災宣導活動應變人員教育訓練、基隆市核二廠"},{"start":3004.963,"end":3006.185,"text":"緊急應變計劃區內家庭訪問以及製作民眾的防護月曆等。"},{"start":3012.517,"end":3032.908,"text":"113年度重點工作包括辦理核安第30號演習持續檢視以及研修核子事故緊急應變相關法規維持備援實驗室的量能擴增輻射災害情質網的功能以及更新決策資訊的圖資應變人員教育訓練新北市核電廠緊急應變計劃區內的家庭訪問強化公民參與"},{"start":3042.041,"end":3064.366,"text":"協助推動社區防災自主管理並持續辦理防災社區民眾黃埠宣導溝通及疏散演練製作民眾黃埠閱歷等多元化民眾溝通的宣傳教育等接著報告行政法人國家原子能科技研究院收支編列情形及業務重點國研院112年收入編列8億8763萬7千元"},{"start":3070.925,"end":3077.429,"text":"支出編列8億6467萬7千元收支相抵後剩餘2296萬元113年收入編列29億9300萬7千元支出編列29億4713萬9千元收支相抵後剩餘4586萬8千元緊就預算業務重點報告如下"},{"start":3098.42,"end":3120.805,"text":"國研院為我國核能與輻射應用的專責研究機構主要是研發概分為核安跟核後端、核一製藥跟民生的輻射應用、新能源跟跨領域的系統整合首要任務在確保國內核後端的安全、輻射應用、核一要務的發展"},{"start":3121.857,"end":3135.263,"text":"推動國家綠能發展期待能夠協助政府達成我國2050年淨零排放的目標核安會為國內核能輻射及放射性物料安全的管制機構"},{"start":3136.953,"end":3151.187,"text":"並持專業技術依法嚴格執行各項管制工作,確保各項原子能民生應用的安全,未來將以更獨立的組織、更專業的團隊進行福安和安的管制。"},{"start":3152.128,"end":3166.337,"text":"同時在管制跟監督工作上面也會更加落實民眾參與跟資訊透明,爭取民眾的信任跟支持。敬請各位委員對核安會的預算會與大力的支持跟協助。謝謝。"},{"start":3176.505,"end":3184.234,"text":"謝謝陳主任委員口頭報告我們現在進行尋答每位出行委員質詢4分鐘必要時延長2分鐘內席委員質詢時間為3分鐘發言登記截止時間為上午10點30分委員如果有臨時提案請於上午10點30分之前提出"},{"start":3195.568,"end":3207.64,"text":"並與本會委員質詢結束後進行臨時提案處理。處理提案時若提案委員及聯署委員均不在場,原例不予處理。首先我們請發言登記第一位張亮萬堅委員質詢。好謝謝主席我們請那個主委主委請"},{"start":3217.967,"end":3237.697,"text":"主委好,因為我們只有4分鐘,所以我們就快速快答。好,張亮委員早。三個問題,第一個就是我們主改之後,明年是第一個完整年度的預算。可是我也知道說你們為了要安置一些這個原額,譬如說這個國研院改制為行政法人嘛,核安所。"},{"start":3238.297,"end":3265.056,"text":"那必須要有一些安置吧好我們看安置的32人而且還移撥了20個員額等於說我們這個主改之後其實是變成行政院的三級機關獨立機關那但是員額又增加這個在這個主改之後我們的業務範圍或各方面到底有什麼調整那這樣子會變成一個比較奇怪的現象就是說我們行政程序其實是往下"},{"start":3265.856,"end":3267.718,"text":"主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會主管核安全委員會"},{"start":3282.575,"end":3308.251,"text":"我關於人力的部分我們昨天做了詳細的了解這個是有一些歷史言語人事主任因為他剛來不到一個月我請主秘來解說這一段會後也會給各位比較詳細的資料就是有關於歷史上我們是怎麼樣來解釋這一塊來主秘"},{"start":3309.82,"end":3330,"text":"根委員報告有關於移撥20個員額那是當時我們在科技部核安署底下的時候因為科技部當時跟核研所要了20個空缺那當時科技部獨立升格以後後來這20個缺就被行政院控管然後他的條件是等到核安會主改過後"},{"start":3331.021,"end":3335.402,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":3348.626,"end":3350.788,"text":"主席總署目前沒有核給這20個,只有空缺而已。"},{"start":3370.026,"end":3372.727,"text":"二、審查123年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":3398.4,"end":3400.721,"text":"二、審查2016年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":3421.751,"end":3432.915,"text":"從1980年代到現在已經放在我們的核能所已經放很久了那我記得當時是說2018年要簽約啦2017年要簽約2018年要處理2019年要完成那2018年問的時候呢又說會2018年簽約2022年要完成"},{"start":3442.598,"end":3450.1,"text":"二、審查2022年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":3466.885,"end":3485.539,"text":"謝謝委員的指教,那個前幾年是因為疫情的關係,那麼剛開始其實這個六幅畫又是要送往美國處理,那後來因為種種因素後來改送到英國,但是現在的容器在英國它的設計還沒有被核准。"},{"start":3486.54,"end":3488.543,"text":"委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":3503.08,"end":3528.535,"text":"我的意思是說我知道說其實你們也曾經回答過我們說比如說2018年12月的時候已經跟美國的U公司簽約那這個運送還包括國內入運國外的海運入運那還說國內的入運在2019年10月23號就簽約了那國外海運跟入運的部分呢在2020年的2月21號已經第4次開票也是由美國的T公司來得票那後來陸續也都議價簽約那為什麼現在又都還沒有"},{"start":3532.138,"end":3536.15,"text":"到底遇到了什麼問題?那你現在編的這個預算有沒有辦法執行?"},{"start":3538.063,"end":3561.137,"text":"這個我想我請那個國研院高院長來回答一下細節來高院長那會不會又現在又說是因為國研院主改了所以將來又拖了那到底是遇到什麼問題報告廖委員主要現在的問題事實上本來是預計今年可以運去但是英國核管單位向他申請這個運輸容器的一個空箱的時候"},{"start":3562.077,"end":3591.35,"text":"那到今年年底才可以取得一個許可文件所以依照目前的進程在明年9月的時候才有辦法執行到運送運送完以後到英國的地方還要再做一些驗收處理所以預估我們是在明年年底明年12月底會轉成檢測分析跟這個所有權的轉移因為這個物料也要做所有權的移轉所以預估現在目前預估很合理的預估應該是明年年底我們可以完成"},{"start":3591.87,"end":3610.325,"text":"因為齁這個問題真的每年都有在關心而且你們預算有時候編有時候沒有編但一年編一年編沒編就是諮詢率都很低啦在審預算勢必又會被提起啦那當然我的意思就是說運送這個當然有它的國際敏感度啦你們那個公司在處理也都是用代號那這個有它的困難度"},{"start":3611.326,"end":3636.68,"text":"究竟怎麼樣克服我想你們也都是專家我們也都外行但是呢我們都很關心這個畢竟放那麼久了他在國內的處理成本跟他未來產生的問題其實是比運到國外去處理還要高啦成本還要高一般評估是這樣所以這部分呢也請你們要注意啦那另外呢是我們之前有提到那個SMR就是說選舉到了嘛大家提說什麼核二核二三要研議等等"},{"start":3637.02,"end":3639.081,"text":"中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會及所屬單位預算案"},{"start":3657.145,"end":3681.996,"text":"那我們台灣對於這些小型模組的一些核能發電到底有沒有進行周邊的研究是的我想國研院在今年就112年那麼他們有做了一些study有一些小的計畫那麼做一些管制措施的研究跟國際趨勢的一些所以你們也有這個三個禮拜前美國這個"},{"start":3682.956,"end":3684.738,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":3712,"end":3712.661,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員"},{"start":3734.436,"end":3762.31,"text":"國衛院目前由核安會有委託一百萬的先期研究做這樣的有一個一百萬的先期研究一百萬對對對尤其偏重於管制方面核安管制方面做一個先期的研究我想最新的趨勢跟發展我們還是需要啦我跟你講如果他技術已經成熟那台灣也不可能置外國際嘛那當然如果他遇到問題我們也不可能浪費很多錢在這上面啦那沒關係詳細的數字我們還要審查預算下個禮拜一我相信你可以再提供給我們好謝謝"},{"start":3763.43,"end":3769.898,"text":"好謝謝委員好謝謝我們接下來請陳秀寶委員質詢介主席請陳主委請主委"},{"start":3783.882,"end":3806.315,"text":"陳委員早陳委員早請問主委聯合國企劃變後綱要公約第28次的第一月份會議在這個月底會召開那主要是邀請40個核能國家來加入行列讓全球核能產量在2050年翻三倍那這樣的訊息我們核安會這邊有掌握相關嗎"},{"start":3807.717,"end":3824.45,"text":"是的有了解有吼國科會這邊跟中研院也正在密切的發展2050近年排放的相關能源科技那針對這個國際間能源政策的變化也希望核安會這邊有了解到掌握到來隨時來應應國際的趨勢接下來呢我想請教主委吼"},{"start":3829.394,"end":3849.249,"text":"我們核安會是我國核能及輻射安全的專責機構那執行我國就是關於輻射安全管制以及落實緊急應變機制還有環境的偵測來維護我國民眾安全健康也因此呢我們核安會這邊有製作一款叫做核安1.通的這個APP那"},{"start":3850.906,"end":3880.3,"text":"並配合就是核安會組織改造在9月底也有改版那主委你自己有下載這個APP嗎?有手機有下載我下載之後我發現有一些問題來提醒一下首先是內容的部分我有把它框出來這個APP配合我們核安會的組織改造有在9月底更新但是有一些很明顯的輸入是沒有更正到這不是很大的問題但是還是民眾一看就會覺得說有點矛盾怎麼是9月27號核能安全委員會成立改版但是我們上面的還是"},{"start":3880.68,"end":3906.463,"text":"由行政院原子能科技研究院來建置。這是我們一些文字沒有修正到的這部分來提醒一下。接下來要談到的這個部分是相關我們防護的宣導。我覺得比較容易會造成民眾的混淆。我也希望說你們在製作這樣的提醒事項的時候能夠更簡潔。圖上我們先看左邊這一張。在孕婦的部分圖上寫說建議服用點片是二分之一訂。"},{"start":3907.344,"end":3932.083,"text":"但是所以在下方呢又有紅字備註我寫112年起孕婦建議的服用劑量是改為一定那如果按照我們核安會這邊的專業評估建議量你們已經更新了為什麼你還要用舊的資訊然後下面再備註那到底是他要先吃了二分之一之後才會看到說哇是一定然後要補充嗎這個部分是不是能夠更清楚的告訴大家我是吃一定還是二分之一定"},{"start":3933.908,"end":3961.734,"text":"謝謝陳委員的提醒那麼我們注意到這一點那我們年底會整個改版那事實上我有要求我們會裡面的同仁所有很多很細節的地方要把原子能委員會改成核能安全委員會那麼總是會有一些漏掉的地方那麼我們會注意謝謝委員提醒那個就是文字的更正而已但是我現在講這個部分我瞭解右邊的這張圖喔大人的建議服用是一定注意事項又寫"},{"start":3962.674,"end":3964.456,"text":"四十歲以上成人不建議服用。"},{"start":3986.756,"end":4009.729,"text":"這個部分是不是比較簡單明瞭讓民眾不會有疑慮或者說我還要看仔細下面的備註所以其實我們核安的宣導已經比其他像地震還是消防這樣的災害的宣導還要比較不足那如果我們在這個官方的宣導又沒有很清楚明瞭讓民眾來瞭解我覺得說這個部分是可以去做改善的你們覺得自己是不是應該在這邊做調整"},{"start":4011.21,"end":4026.865,"text":"謝謝委員非常好的意見,我們會來精進這方面細節。我想廖組長也在這個地方,他剛才也有跟我講說我們會來全面做一些改進,謝謝。那你們預計多久?年底嗎?"},{"start":4029.605,"end":4042.094,"text":"原則我們年底就會把它完成就這個部分謝謝那除了APP的內容要改進之外其實主委我必須老實說這個APP的下載量也是驚人的低從106年上線到現在6年的時間下載雙平台總共只有一萬兩千人下載而且在緊急應變計畫區就是會接觸到就是在核電廠附近的民眾呢其實只有2.2%的人有接觸過這個APP可見核安會你們在推廣相關的這些"},{"start":4057.925,"end":4083.374,"text":"核安的資訊防護的安全防護這個部分加上民眾說明的事項你們並沒有非常積極當然我也清楚說核安會這邊你們的預算規模不多所以核安會這邊也跟國科會這邊的國家災害防救科技中心有進行合作在災害中心的LINE官方的帳號也會推播輻射災害這些相關的訊息那既然你們已經有跟防"},{"start":4084.174,"end":4110.411,"text":"災害防救中心有合作而且災防中心他們的平台訂閱人數也比你們自己的APP還要多那你們有沒有還要堅持做自己的APP你們會不會評估一下因為其實APP的建設你每個月需要蠻多一筆的維管費用那也要維持維護這個APP的資安那你們自己本身在這個業務上推廣也沒有很積極的話你們覺得說這個APP還要做嗎還是說你們要直接跟這個災害防救中心來配合宣導就好"},{"start":4111.712,"end":4135.569,"text":"謝謝委員的意見這部分我想請我們單位的主管李組長來說明一下跟陳委員報告一下有關於剛才的那個核安一點通的那個創作者原子能委員會其實如果委員去看Android版的時候已經改過了但是iOS版因為我們屢次跟他改說要改成核安會他一直屢次要我們提供相關"},{"start":4136.369,"end":4163.46,"text":"為什麼核原能會可以改成核安會這部分我們還是持續在積極跟那個iOS的廠商在溝通另外委員講的沒錯這個APP的下載量確實比較低所以目前大概有13000所以目前我們就透過各種的方式包括我們科普展包括我們主理宣導包括我們防災演練等等的各種方式我們來鼓勵民眾下載另外跟NCDR就是國家防災"},{"start":4164.982,"end":4165.924,"text":"災害防救科技中心"},{"start":4176.483,"end":4180.446,"text":"委員要求核安會一定要做這個不過這個我們會持續的與時俱進看未來哪一種的宣導方法比較好我們會檢討經濟以上報告核安會評估過後如果你們覺得說這個APP其實你們還有個必要性再繼續的去維持它的話我是尊重的但是就是說請你們要如何就是說推廣你們的APP"},{"start":4199.199,"end":4200.18,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4223.63,"end":4229.335,"text":"接下來要關心的是食品安全的部分近日屢屢傳出日本核災區的食品進口被檢驗出有輻射物質的殘留雖然都沒有超標也沒有進入我們談論市場這也是因為我們相關單位有積極的辦理食品的檢驗民眾才能夠安心的選購相關的商品"},{"start":4241.525,"end":4248.631,"text":"那尤其是在日本的8月底它寒川沸水開始排放之後民眾的疑慮會增加也會產生一些恐慌的現象像之前有這個搶購鹽的這個事情那所以說我們核安會這邊對相關核案的宣導是不是也是要再加強"},{"start":4257.219,"end":4260.382,"text":"再來我們核安會從1005年的時候編列大概有1600多萬及1300多萬在南部及北部有設置輻射災害檢驗分析備援實驗室從107年度開始受理檢驗兩個實驗室最大的檢驗量每年是3800件"},{"start":4276.334,"end":4279.397,"text":"但是實際總檢測的檢測量截至到今年兩個實驗室每年加起都沒有超過300件。大概我可以理解說這個當初設置這個備援實驗室主要就是說如果有緊急的狀況的時候緊急發生核子事故的時候能夠因應大量的食品農產品有需要做輻射的檢測。"},{"start":4296.676,"end":4317.786,"text":"但也不代表說那現在相安無事的時候平時就讓這些實驗室一些設備是閒置的尤其像剛提到說現在日本開始排放這個寒川沸水民眾其實很焦慮那為了不讓民眾恐慌其實我們是不是可以自己主動去擴大這個檢測讓民眾安心這個部分核安會你們有沒有考慮去訂立相關的方案好"},{"start":4318.847,"end":4337.669,"text":"謝謝委員的指教兩個備援實驗室我們總共有七個備援實驗室是在2011年福島發生災害之後我們要增加檢測的量能萬一發生核子事故的時候我們這兩個備援實驗室可以提供"},{"start":4338.37,"end":4357.739,"text":"獲獲獲獲獲獲獲"},{"start":4357.879,"end":4362.42,"text":"本席的意思就是說既然我們有這樣的設備我們不要讓它閒置那現在因為有日本的寒川沸水排放這個事情發生民眾對我們的食安有疑慮的時候其實我們是不是可以主動的去檢測相關的食品還是漁產品還是除了檢測海水之外其實我們對食物上我們可以讓民眾更安心那我們既然耗費了上千萬建置這樣的設備我們應該要物盡其用不要讓好的設備就這樣平時就是閒置著"},{"start":4387.69,"end":4402.708,"text":"請何安惠這邊你們可以去評估怎麼來協助民眾既然民眾對這個食品安全有疑慮那何安惠你們有設備是不是可以主動來協助是的那個我們這個一年的檢測量大概是七萬六百件"},{"start":4403.609,"end":4407.573,"text":"核安會所屬輻射偵測中心及國研院兩個實驗室提供檢測,抽檢的是食藥署,在邊境抽檢日本進口的樣品。"},{"start":4420.586,"end":4425.551,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4447.605,"end":4447.945,"text":"黃國舒委員主席"},{"start":4487.754,"end":4495.482,"text":"當時在北部跟南部,北部就是國立陽明交通大學有建制北部輻射災害的一個"},{"start":4496.663,"end":4515.659,"text":"備援實驗室南部委託屏東科大這兩個實驗室這幾年來的成效我們在今天是預算所以我覺得我們需要來檢視一下有沒有投入一些經費有當時建制的經費北部是1687萬南部是1330萬當時的估算最大的檢驗量也就是說我們預期的它的檢驗量是3800件"},{"start":4525.947,"end":4540.452,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":4540.834,"end":4568.005,"text":"那我們相較於我們國研院科技部的國研院近三年的檢測件數58934件的輻射偵測中心近三年檢驗數也5314件有非常大明顯的落差我們看到幾乎我們推動的這個北部實驗室跟南部的實驗室是為了要因應這個輻射災害的檢驗的"},{"start":4571.305,"end":4571.545,"text":"委員會主管核安會"},{"start":4601.499,"end":4619.369,"text":"那這個部分是不是可以請主委你說明一下如果我們沒有提出一些比較精進的作為我們預算給你的在明年度如果這些預算還是浪費掉了他可能還是一個文職管這非常可惜說明一下那個謝謝黃委員的指教"},{"start":4620.87,"end":4640.025,"text":"當初我們設立這個備援用意其實不是活商業的目的不是活量能原來的初衷但是這幾年我們這個量能其實是存在的有一些資料可能沒有完整的顯示我請廖組長"},{"start":4642.039,"end":4649.788,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4663.483,"end":4663.503,"text":"檢測結果"},{"start":4693.203,"end":4700.61,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4719.206,"end":4720.707,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4738.559,"end":4756.752,"text":"前幾天我看到有總統候選人在跟工商業做談的時候跟企業界談台灣當然能源是一個很大的問題但他提到了希望在2035年核電佔比要過半那核四要重啟那核四重啟的可能性是什麼"},{"start":4757.432,"end":4759.594,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4774.465,"end":4796.175,"text":"您們應該要把整個核四可不可能重啟那就核能安全把關者的角度來說明這個事情台電在2021年的時候有提出說明因為這個議題已經討論好多年了當時又提到了原廠人力解散系統太舊更新設備難以取得耐震程度需要提升以及原能會試轉"},{"start":4797.916,"end":4821.181,"text":"事運轉報告中還有32項待完成所以這個四大的因素是台電難以掌握的這難以掌握就不知道要幾年了但技術面要完成就是台電可以掌握的技術也要7年所以當時是說N加7年才有可能重啟核試當時這是台電的說法但當時也還沒有我們核安會的意見進來"},{"start":4822.461,"end":4851.018,"text":"好,最近又有提到了,想要重啟核試,之前的核試的廠長說投入300億,三、四年就可以重啟了。喔,是可以這樣嗎?那我想要請問一下,主委,可不可以跟我們講一下,以目前的狀況,核試還沒有完工,它的建造已經失效了,那一定要再重新申請建造吧,那不可以繼續興建作業嘛,除非你有新的建造。"},{"start":4851.818,"end":4870.947,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能"},{"start":4878.231,"end":4899.556,"text":"重啟核四的程序是什麼?那核安會你們要評估哪一些重點?謝謝委員核四在2020的12月建造已經屆滿所以現在假設要再重啟那當然除了社會共識之外那必須要再重新申請建造"},{"start":4900.276,"end":4915.802,"text":"adequa能源政策是國家的政策就其實不是核安會的業務的範圍那第三個核安會其實是以安全把關為最基本的要求"},{"start":4916.744,"end":4931.767,"text":"那麼剛才陳儒委員剛才提的我們有很多的事項需要檢視要重啟要安全評估老化評估更換設備更換零組件那麼還要跟原廠商來做協調"},{"start":4932.568,"end":4940.293,"text":"三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":4960.587,"end":4982.069,"text":"我請那個高組長高組長來有可能嗎跟委員報告確實如同剛才委員所說的事實上核四要重啟必須要面臨面臨很多事項要處理包括設備然後甚至地質調查這部分強化等等確實如果以現在來看三到四年確實有難度有難度確實有難度好"},{"start":4983.602,"end":4991.498,"text":"當然啦,從前核四每一次的總統大選都會變成是一個選戰的議題但是不管怎麼樣"},{"start":4992.987,"end":5020.128,"text":"我們要關切的是如果要重啓的話它必須經過什麼樣的程序因為我們核安會的主責範圍就是要讓所有的核電都是安全無虞的這個是我們的職責即便要重啓也必須要進行這些必要的審核的程序那核安會當然是要把關嘛那如果以你們把關者的角度3到4年當然是有難度的嘛其實幾乎是不可能嘛好 以上 謝謝好 謝謝委員"},{"start":5022.827,"end":5023.127,"text":"主席"},{"start":5040.41,"end":5067.801,"text":"主委長首先來跟主委聊聊就是說我們核安會的年度施政目標根據預算書這個核安會除了強化原子能安全管制之外還負有發展能源及後端技術推廣應用的責任那並且還要建立能源供應設施韌性的這個評估的能力那同時"},{"start":5070.623,"end":5091.719,"text":"審慎評估國際新世代的核能技術密切追蹤核融合商轉時程。雖然和安會對外展現的態度是讓我感覺你們就是一個聽命行事的單位對於國家未來能源發展沒有太多的意見"},{"start":5093.46,"end":5101.665,"text":"實際上針對我國的能源發展照理說核安會的專業判斷與意見應該還是要佔有一定的份量那還是說我國未來究竟要不要繼續發展核電有比核安會更專業的這個機關嗎在做判斷嗎又或者主委會認為說這個能源偵測其實沒有專業也無關科學就是所謂的政黨傾向"},{"start":5121.377,"end":5121.537,"text":"主委"},{"start":5151.857,"end":5156.701,"text":"總統參選人侯友宜甚至說當選總統後要致力讓核一、核二、核三在檢修無虞的情況下研議核四也要在專家的評估後如果沒問題也要再重啟"},{"start":5180.28,"end":5200.421,"text":"今天本席也不是說要求主委要回應侯友宜個人,而是要求說身為全民納稅人成立的這個核安會,我們當國家的主人,也就是說人民要用選票決定或影響能源政策的時候,掌握知識跟技術的核安會就有責任提供更完備的資訊讓大家來做參考。"},{"start":5203.024,"end":5207.688,"text":"核一廠已經在2019啟動為期25年的廚藝工作。核二廠一號機也已經在2021年停止運轉,進入了廚藝的階段。那核一廠的高階核廢料還在如新無法取出。那為什麼沒有辦法取出?因為取出之後沒有安全的空間可以放。"},{"start":5224.685,"end":5225.625,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5249.233,"end":5276.507,"text":"再來我們看核二廠早在2015年臺電就向新北市政府申請核二乾煮工程的啟動所需的計畫可是始終沒有獲得同意導致乾煮無法興建結果同樣是核廢料無法放置反應爐也無法更換燃料核二廠的一號機甚至已經提早半年停機不但核廢料"},{"start":5277.747,"end":5301.292,"text":"不要核廢料,那可是要核電,這個其實,請問現在主委啦,就是說現在有這樣的一個發電方式嗎?的確那個核一、核二、核三面臨很諸多的問題,那麼委員剛才都提到了,那麼這些是一些細節,那如果要具體他都要面對的問題。"},{"start":5302.432,"end":5332.432,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":5335.073,"end":5349.318,"text":"現階段我國核電廠是不是已經進入廚藝階段?即將進入廚藝階段。如果未來真的被要求要研議,就核能安全的面向來看,核安會會給出什麼樣的建議?"},{"start":5355.12,"end":5370.777,"text":"剛才委員提到的那個室內乾除核一跟核二廠一個是117年一個是118年現在是在就是他們的規劃的階段那麼室內乾除其實是較具有社會共識"},{"start":5372.259,"end":5383.785,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5391.949,"end":5409.723,"text":"中國的核電產業近年來是迅速在發展。依照這個國際原子能總署最新的資料顯示目前中國有55個運轉中的機組有21個新建中的機組而且大多落於沿海的地方"},{"start":5410.884,"end":5434.921,"text":"這些核電機組對於台灣的潛在風險就是發生核災事故的時候可能飄散到我國境內的輻射層。為了確保國人安全並且在事故發生的時候要第一時間掌握中國核電廠的狀況所以過去的原能會其實在2011年有跟中國簽署了一個"},{"start":5436.742,"end":5456.428,"text":"海峽兩岸核電安全合作協議。希望能透過雙方在各自核電兩方事故時可以盡到相互通報的義務。最近一次的通報測試在上個月的13日。不過日常演練是一回事,真的問題發生又是一回事,尤其我們面對的是像中國這樣的一個國家。"},{"start":5458.308,"end":5463.511,"text":"主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":5485.982,"end":5508.73,"text":"真的沒有在核子事故的發生的初期跟我們通報那核安會在無預警的狀態之下有怎麼樣的作為能夠確保說臺灣依舊能夠在恰當的時間內做出反應主委好那個謝謝近外核災主要是以原子程為主要的考慮因為我們畢竟隔了一個海"},{"start":5509.77,"end":5512.611,"text":"二、審查二、審查三、審查四、審查五、審查六、審查七、審查八、審查十、審查十、"},{"start":5538.405,"end":5540.406,"text":"委員會主管核子事故"},{"start":5553.65,"end":5556.792,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5583.61,"end":5593.338,"text":"完全正確好好好謝謝主委謝謝主席好謝謝委員好謝謝林益錦委員接下來謝謝主委接下來有請鄭麗文委員謝謝謝謝主席請主委有請主委謝謝"},{"start":5608.282,"end":5608.442,"text":"政委員長。"},{"start":5614.482,"end":5618.545,"text":"主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":5641.504,"end":5647.825,"text":"資訊平台執行經費609萬9千元112年度優化正式啟用經費513萬元總共1122萬9千元但是如果你進去想要去了解核廢水點進去之後它還要跳到你們的官網然後我如果要了解相關檢測的品項、數量、膚色、含量等等你還要再進一步的去下載這個檔案"},{"start":5670.93,"end":5699.599,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5699.918,"end":5714.861,"text":"所以第一個我的要求請你們要把這個網頁做好不要就是交差了事好嗎第二個就是有關於這個核廢水的這個平台大家都知道對漁業的影響非常大"},{"start":5715.362,"end":5715.562,"text":"檢查檢查檢查"},{"start":5731.048,"end":5739.792,"text":"這個也是交差了事的我都覺得非常的離譜跟誇張第一個我們沒有當天即時監測的資訊而是呢根據監測的結果進行預測而且預測是一周的模擬預測"},{"start":5747.716,"end":5767.567,"text":"如何讓漁民知道可以如何的善用你們的預測系統然後根據你們的預測系統來決定他的出海另外如何又能夠確保我們台灣相關的水產品的安全呢你這個東西很明顯的是交差了事你看日本 主委"},{"start":5769.315,"end":5786.517,"text":"日本市在港口的部分每10分鐘它就更新一次最新的監測的結果東京電力是每一天都公告他們有關的不管是在海水、井水、儲水槽、管線、空氣中所有的輻射監測"},{"start":5788.976,"end":5812.05,"text":"那麼有關於海水監測的部分我再講一次那人家日本每10分鐘就可以更新一次啊我們是多久做一次做一次還可以頂未來的一個禮拜那這不是交差了是應付一下而已嗎你覺得漁民會對我們的監測有信心嗎那感覺上也並沒有把這件事情很當一回事就是有做就好了啦"},{"start":5812.91,"end":5813.31,"text":"議員主席議員主席"},{"start":5832.193,"end":5856.476,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":5857.952,"end":5860.775,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5873.889,"end":5875.15,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5892.786,"end":5899.168,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5922.093,"end":5947.979,"text":"報告委員就是有關於這10分鐘日本的10分鐘監測是即時的一個他的一個出海出水口的一個計量率的一個監測那他每天因為為了要快速的資料知道他們出水口所以有一個快速的分析方法每天公告那隨著距離越來越遠因為因為海水的一個稀釋越來越遠所以我們大家都是用一個定期一個平次的一個概念"},{"start":5948.379,"end":5949.84,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":5967.403,"end":5972.904,"text":"二、審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":5992.288,"end":5999.011,"text":"我們總共這個核廢水裡頭所含的放射性物質有九種那為什麼我們只監測七種"},{"start":6005.696,"end":6007.077,"text":"為什麼沒有碳14跟1129?為什麼沒有碳14跟1129?"},{"start":6029.033,"end":6031.294,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全"},{"start":6055.623,"end":6072.588,"text":"會殘留在人體的骨骼、牙齒、甲狀腺、肌肉當中幾十年造成更大的輻射劑量這都是BBC的報導那為什麼我們漏掉了碳14跟碳129可不可以補進去呢?好,了解那個委員的問題非常好跟委員報告"},{"start":6074.688,"end":6093.319,"text":"核廢水經過ALPS系統,它沒有辦法過濾的主要剩下兩種,一個是氚、一個是碳-14。但是碳-14在排到外面的時候,排到海裡面的時候,它已經低於安全標準的十分之一,日本安全標準。"},{"start":6094.119,"end":6120.585,"text":"但是這個川沒有辦法經過它是稀釋之後才排到海裡面所以我們主要的觀點是在看這個川的含量那委員剛才提到其他幾個放射性的元素那麼其實我們在境外的海域金門、馬祖還有這個黑潮的流域的地方我們都有做一些檢測"},{"start":6121.666,"end":6137.348,"text":"為什麼你們的檢測跟綠色和平的檢測不一樣?綠色和平的檢測就是說針對福島核廢水裡頭的放射性物質他發現除了你剛講的氚之外裡面碳14跟碳129他們都有發現還有其他的部分"},{"start":6138.72,"end":6165.869,"text":"報告委員因為綠色和平組織調查報告這一個他是一開始是初始是分析日本的那個排放所可能含有的所有的一個核種並沒有考慮到他實際殘存過濾以後的一個核種的濃度所以你們就是假設說他過濾以後這些都已經過濾完成了不可能殘存我們在源頭所以就不用所以就不用再去測試那萬一他沒有過濾乾淨呢"},{"start":6167.298,"end":6185.423,"text":"瞭解瞭解這個部分齁其實我們主要還是所以日本人說什麼他說這個東西很安全所以你們覺得這個東西很安全其他就不用測了那這那你這說這個檢測不就是做給我們安人心的而已嗎沒有這個主要還那我們就是當然就是懷疑說那萬一他沒有過濾乾淨怎麼辦呢"},{"start":6187.974,"end":6208.82,"text":"這個部分主要這個有國際原子能總署IEA他有進駐到核電廠日本核電廠那麼他有一個獨立的第三方的公正單位在做一些檢視我還有一個問題請問一下那既然譬如說我們看日本的報告日本的海水環境省下一頁"},{"start":6210.589,"end":6237.347,"text":"他們檢測到了有7種的放射性物質。所以呢日本就分別在今年的5月、今年的9月都公布說他們在海水當中監測到了7種物質。那為什麼我們台灣呢只公布兩種呢?而不把你所監測到的都公布出來呢?我請徐主任那個輻射中心主任"},{"start":6238.427,"end":6257.176,"text":"您們是已經先設建材劃靶嗎?我是跟委員報告因為日本是事故國它的放射性核種的濃度會比較高所以它測得到那我們是在離日本有2000公里的海面上所以剛剛委員講的這七種設134、設137還有106、125、60、90、129這些我們這邊其實大概量測出來的結果都是小於最低可測值是測不到的"},{"start":6267.501,"end":6267.621,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":6285.124,"end":6312.826,"text":"那太好了如果是這樣子的話主委那你們應該要積極爭取啊不應該漏掉這兩個元素的探測嘛我們當然支持啊不然的話你這個漏掉這兩個你這個報告根本就是我們怎麼能夠安心呢這個東西很重要啊你不能跟我講說喔日本他的那邊應該沒問題我們的國際原子能總署有派人在那邊什麼什麼的那你就是不然那我們就根本連測都不用測了嘛如果是這樣"},{"start":6314.447,"end":6330.359,"text":"這也太天真了吧那我們當然就是要測到說我們今天在我們台灣環海的這些海域裡頭到底是不是安全的我們漁民在我們作業捕撈的這些海水裡面有沒有受到污染欸他們抓的魚回來我們通通都要吃的欸開什麼玩笑啊那最後一個問題啦齁就是在我們核安會的這個服務小站這上面呢寫的這個東西呢"},{"start":6342.045,"end":6362.15,"text":"我不知道主委你有沒有看這個東西完全就是在幫日本宣傳嘛我們有必要這樣嗎我們的態度是為國人的安全把關是為我們的海域的安全環保把關而不是在那邊講說日本做得多好又多好所以絕對沒有問題"},{"start":6364.571,"end":6369.315,"text":"二、審查123年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預。"},{"start":6377.931,"end":6400.246,"text":"所以我們在台灣所有的把關都是形式上的都是做安心的做交代的虛晃一招讓我們這些擔心的人閉嘴的嗎這態度跟基本立場的出發就太偏移了吧太歪樓了吧我們不應該是去幫日本講話嘛而是站在我們台灣的"},{"start":6402.047,"end":6430.927,"text":"國家利益的角度人民食安的角度漁民的生計的角度做好把關的角色你可以說我們做了哪些哪些你怎麼會我們的臉書說日本做了哪些哪些所以大家要安心呢你這是日本人的網站日本人的臉書還是台灣人的臉書啊莫名其妙立刻下架馬上更改啊不然你們小編是日本派來的嗎是日本政府派來的嗎"},{"start":6432.767,"end":6459.556,"text":"謝謝委員的指教那這個部分我們回去馬上檢視那麼會做一些修正那麼剛剛委員提到這個網頁設計那個河岸一點通APP相關因為我自己上網過我有去做check我其實可以看到所有的資訊那麼會後我想我請我們同仁即便在手機現在我就可以展示給各位看不是他可以看得到但是你們的設計"},{"start":6461.056,"end":6463.399,"text":"主委,你是主委啊,你是博士欸,你是一般的漁民要怎麼去看,你懂我的意思嗎?他當然看得到,我不是說他看不到,而是你們的設計實在是很不方便,對一般的使用者來講,這真的很困難。"},{"start":6483.519,"end":6483.619,"text":"陳培余委員"},{"start":6511.534,"end":6511.734,"text":"主席"},{"start":6522.113,"end":6543.159,"text":"那我想我們就今天非常多委員都提到了關於這個那我們想要跟主委來聊一聊關於核安福安科普的事情喔其實在這個核安會裡面呢有非常非常多的訊息其實真的需要持續跟全民積極的溝通讓大家可以更安心這件事情我相信主委您也是高度認同那我們來看一下其實在你們的業務報告當中有提到"},{"start":6545.52,"end":6575.52,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":6575.6,"end":6579.443,"text":"一年兩次的頻率是固定的,那110年當時三次的原因是因為?"},{"start":6606.744,"end":6630.287,"text":"跟委員報告當然如果有特殊的狀況委員隨時可以邀請我就是邀集召開來召開會議所以臨時會議而我們全民參與委員會這個會議最重要的目的就是就教於各界對我們在宣導溝通上面的方法或是方式或是這個管道有什麼建議事項都歡迎委員給我們這個指教"},{"start":6630.928,"end":6647.706,"text":"以上就是相關委員會裡面的委員嗎但是我相信這個除了這個學者專家其實還有社會溝通人士社運人士就是所謂的專家學者社會公正人士或者是民間團體代表擔任這個全民參與委員會的委員嗎其實我們有看相關的報告"},{"start":6652.11,"end":6673.946,"text":"我們是想要建議啦除了您剛剛說原本是訂定一年兩次但是我相信不管是這個寒川廢水的事情或者是剛剛有非常多委員提到核電廠核廢料的事情是不是你們有機會內部考慮跟討論是不是要增加它的頻率跟密度讓大家在這件事情上可以有更多的共識跟討論的機會那促進跟全民溝通的部分"},{"start":6674.266,"end":6679.928,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":6700.317,"end":6728.871,"text":"委員會你們這邊在介入性血管診療手術裡面所使用的心導管還有血管攝影用的X光機上次我也跟主委請教過你們在今年喔特別把這兩件事情納入相關的品保作業那我相信是不是要開始你們是不是開始要為相關的醫護人員或是相對的病患做出更重要更謹慎的這個相關的健康狀況的追蹤所以你們才會把這個納入今年的業務報告我們可不可以請你們說明一下"},{"start":6729.511,"end":6744.317,"text":"的確這個部分其實是在我們核安會在民生用途上面裡面非常重要的一個業務特別對於不同的SCALE不同等級的醫療院所"},{"start":6745.037,"end":6746.658,"text":"衛生委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":6766.974,"end":6773.307,"text":"預計如何進行這個相關健康狀況的追蹤可不可以請你們說明一下讓大家可以更放心我請張組長來做一些說明胡方主張組長"},{"start":6777.626,"end":6777.686,"text":"衛生局局長"},{"start":6799.339,"end":6809.771,"text":"衛生來去做實際臨床上的一個溝通不要再不要因為我們推動這個平保暴露進而去干預到了醫生的一個醫療行為醫療行為對我相信這樣的專業溝通對話應該是不會有任何問題"},{"start":6814.156,"end":6815.816,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":6832.261,"end":6839.307,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":6857.102,"end":6860.286,"text":"而核安會在核安會所做的所有事情包括一、在國內進行輻射防護法精進的相關研究一、追蹤國際上法規修正的動態一、在111年至112年相關業務也預告要擬定修正相關防護法草案。"},{"start":6876.824,"end":6897.937,"text":"甚至在112年的6月核安會你們自己也說要進行相關法規修正的預告作業可是目前我們在這份新的業務報告裡面完全沒有看到這個部分的進度也沒有看到送進立法院的院版草案可是你們在來年的預算裡面還是編了一個新的四年期的1500萬的預算所以我們想要請主委說明一下相關執法修正的進度跟目前規劃的內容跟方向"},{"start":6903.32,"end":6924.913,"text":"我的了解這個案子我們明年就是現在113年底明年初會送到立法院來請各位委員指教那麼主要有一些精神第一個符合國際的趨勢那第二個呢我們增加了一些罰款的條件那麼總共修了大概14條是不是"},{"start":6926.474,"end":6926.994,"text":"主席吳思瑤委員"},{"start":6957.915,"end":6959.249,"text":"介主席請主委"},{"start":6964.341,"end":6984.93,"text":"吳委員早吳委員早大家辛苦大家早安那原能會改制成為核安會核研所也成為國原院而且行政法人化了所以本期期待我們不只在核安管制上甚至在原子能相關科技的民生應用的發展都應當更有力都應當更升級"},{"start":6988.271,"end":6995.145,"text":"所以今天我針對核一製藥中心的一些長期應當改革的問題就交於主委。好,下一頁。"},{"start":6996.543,"end":7004.845,"text":"首先當然我們用原子能科技來研發核一藥物我們已經成立了26年的核一製藥中心那是台灣唯一一個具規模而且合法能夠供應核一藥物的政府機構那當然他們扮演了非常重要的角色能夠抑制長期都依賴國外進口我們能夠發揮在地生產的優勢下一頁"},{"start":7023.169,"end":7047.147,"text":"但是我從2020年3年前我就提出了改革核醫藥物中心的四支箭不外乎要去解決它設備老化的問題解決它因為人員離退人力短缺以至於核心技術的這些卡關當然更重要的是它的產能利用率低那到底要怎麼改變"},{"start":7048.548,"end":7071.979,"text":"今年這一次我今天站在這裡是這個屆期最後一次就教於您也是審議預算的期間所以我們要逐一來檢視喔下一個首先第一個這應當是思堯率先在立法院大力協助我們原能會來爭取的我們要採購最新型的70MVV迴旋加速器"},{"start":7072.899,"end":7090.408,"text":"我原本很開心我審議預算的時候也都提案幫助大家編列預算國會支持可是我赫然發現不是只有採購啦他還有相關研究室的建制昨天剛開標完成我們研究室建制的標案是嗎那這樣的話我"},{"start":7094.814,"end":7116.462,"text":"應該是昨天開標完成吧?我的資訊?土建的部分那到底整個完成建制土建、基電、迴旋加速器、同位素研製、量子照護、照射實驗室、中子應用實驗室跟系統工程加起來我收集的資料是還至少要在3年半也就是2027年"},{"start":7118.903,"end":7124.168,"text":"是需要這麼久嗎?加速器是加速器啊!要加速啊!這有一點複雜度"},{"start":7129.497,"end":7132.619,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管"},{"start":7149.531,"end":7150.431,"text":"委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":7170.959,"end":7176.405,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7187.698,"end":7208.15,"text":"協助你們需要外援就外援因為畢竟還需要工程專家那我期待啦當然越快越好為什麼呢下一頁因為現有的機組30年了嘛雖然去年在疫情期間因為國外的進口不順利所以我們確實在這幾年稅休就是說這幾年就是讓他的產能是2.25倍"},{"start":7212.392,"end":7213.373,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7232.343,"end":7254.822,"text":"國人的健康需要救急救命的還要再等三、四個月所以如果新的機器的建置、土建、研究室的facility還需要時間那麼現有機組就應當協助他扮演足夠的產能、產量的功能下一頁那尤其核一精準"},{"start":7256.015,"end":7276.049,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7276.049,"end":7278.61,"text":"二、審查123年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":7305.871,"end":7313.32,"text":"所以他不斷的稅休不斷的停機也不斷的要設備更新30年的老機器那到底怎麼辦呢"},{"start":7315.15,"end":7335.755,"text":"主委我希望聽到好消息他有不同階段的任務啦我的理解30mEV是過去的階段他的作用在於就是detection就是說來檢測70mEV他有精準醫療的功能"},{"start":7336.075,"end":7339.518,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7357.551,"end":7381.032,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7381.152,"end":7400.872,"text":"其實MVP事實上在國外義大利有個相同機組它蓋了7年去年我去參訪已經11年了還沒辦法如期運轉所以我們當時是配合國人的需求我們把這個整個時程壓縮到4年目前的進程應該是還可以有機會如期如遲完成"},{"start":7401.573,"end":7406.398,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7421.215,"end":7439.495,"text":"二十六%後來承諾立法院逐年要降低到12、13%現在故障率到去年前年都是大概10%左右所以現在可控了今年目前為止的故障率大概只有5%以下那我手上的資料你看這張圖表2022年它的停機次數到21次"},{"start":7441.277,"end":7449.279,"text":"主要基組件已經更換好了,現在我們可以看到這幾年就相對的它的產能的利用率就會提升了。好,那我非常期待從您嘴上得到您口中得到這樣的正面的消息好嗎?"},{"start":7467.142,"end":7489.923,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":7490.023,"end":7490.964,"text":"二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7507.367,"end":7528.479,"text":"很難很難讓我接受啊這個我們分五年會逐年把人力補齊前面補了兩年還不夠今年年底我們會因為國研院有一個機制就是行政法人我們可以公開招募所以我我們同位數應用組會補足9個今年馬上年底1月1號就可以補足9位員工"},{"start":7529.979,"end":7552.691,"text":"續連我們會把這個42人全部補齊。謝謝院長說明,那就善用行政法人的優勢。我期待增補人力,真的不要讓我們再等下去。來主委綜合回覆。謝謝那個高院長,其實也是70MEV的總計畫主持人。他對這個案子非常的了解,那麼也做很多的努力。"},{"start":7553.371,"end":7557.633,"text":"二、審查212年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":7581.262,"end":7581.282,"text":"陳委員"},{"start":7601.863,"end":7621.361,"text":"主委好我想今天有關於核安的這個相關的預算跟業務的審查那我想上次見到主委的時候就討論到核安很重要的就是要來保障我們民眾的核安福安的安全更重要要能夠發展原子能民生的相關的用途"},{"start":7622.502,"end":7624.503,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7642.913,"end":7645.394,"text":"二、審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":7662.222,"end":7678.677,"text":"當他把這個核廢水排到海裡的時候對我們台灣的安全上面會不會有疑慮啊但是雖然我們都這樣子做了齁上次這個也非常的肯定我們跨部會共同就有建置了這個公開的平台"},{"start":7680.278,"end":7701.887,"text":"公開平台除了核安會外外交部、交通部、衛福部、農業部、海委會、國科會這些共同都要來做這些資訊的公開很期待就是我剛剛講的希望能夠避免不了解的民眾對這個部分的誤解也不會發生前一陣子在那邊"},{"start":7703.167,"end":7714.114,"text":"買食鹽對不對然後這個搶購一些的海鮮告訴哪些的海鮮是能夠是不能夠買的我雖然覺得政府都有在做但是我們的宣導是不是真的能夠去避免民眾這邊的一個誤解或者是假消息的傳遞我覺得這個是最重要的特別是你看我說日本從2011年到現在大家都還是這麼關心"},{"start":7732.345,"end":7759.94,"text":"雖然他都已經告訴我們說他的這個寒川的廢量排放量相較於這些其他的國家都還是比較低的情況之下大家都還是這麼擔心但是我相信是剛剛林一金委員也有提到其實我們更應該要擔心的是我們鄰近的這一些壞鄰居包括中國他現在運轉中的就有55個"},{"start":7761.261,"end":7772.19,"text":"新建中的就有21個而且都是在沿海地區然後再加上中國過去的reputation實在太糟糕了很多東西都隱瞞不公開就光這些疫情"},{"start":7776.374,"end":7800.538,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7803.124,"end":7830.21,"text":"這個我再理解一下齁但是我跟委員報告齁境外核災第一件事情我們100年福島發生以後我們跟中國大陸有一個兩岸的所以這個就福島之後做了對然後第二個我們其實是密切、頻繁、定期在做聯絡剛才我提到河安監管中心它是一個單一管道的聯絡窗口24小時第二個我們"},{"start":7832.076,"end":7857.245,"text":"台灣整個有120座固定式的環境輻射監測站。我知道,剛剛我都坐在那個全程廳,就是相關的監控我們都有。那我剛剛的問題是對於這樣子的一個guideline,該徵修的就要徵修,譬如說我們現在又有海委會,我們的環保署也都改制變成環境署了,它相關的角色功能,我相信這些組織都需要再做澄清啦,好不好?"},{"start":7857.745,"end":7860.267,"text":"護理人員人數優勢在社區可靜性Nurses can help!"},{"start":7880.959,"end":7882.42,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7903.099,"end":7931.721,"text":"護舍治療用在醫療用途的時候這些對於我們護理人員的教育並不是足夠比如說我們就被問到說我有這些鼓掃描我懷孕中的太太可不可以來對不起護理人員也懷孕了這些東西其實對於相關的資訊我們並沒有很充分的宣導當然我們核安會其實有在前身有出了這個醫療院所護舍安全安心手冊對不起也是已經out of date了"},{"start":7932.361,"end":7934.462,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7949.531,"end":7966.476,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":7966.894,"end":7970.276,"text":"二、審查123年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":7983.726,"end":8006.863,"text":"此政策完全都是天馬行空,做不到的事情。我不曉得核安會會不會來做解釋。我看過了很多的,譬如說像我們中研院,就很棒啊。它雖然其實都是他們自己院內的演講啊什麼,它就可以拍成YouTube,而且它的流量都非常的高。而且你知道嗎,它的宣傳費用一年才28萬而已。"},{"start":8008.524,"end":8037.15,"text":"但是我們的核安會,我們現在的YouTube也有!抱歉,你知道流量多少嗎?你有做相關的解釋嗎?所以我要講的就是這些而已。好,謝謝委員的指教。第一個,有關於全民溝通這些部分,我們會來精進。第二個,醫護人員這個部分,我們做了很大的努力,基本上就是維護醫療環境的安全,醫護人員的安全。"},{"start":8038.257,"end":8039.558,"text":"委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核"},{"start":8051.878,"end":8055.299,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8084.632,"end":8105.011,"text":"主委,我們快速的問題,時間有限。我想前面也有委員在催詢,不過我們再簡單講一下。這個COP28明天就開了,法國還要邀請40個核能國家入列,說希望全球核能產量要翻三倍,應該是這樣講。"},{"start":8106.733,"end":8120.802,"text":"我們現在這個我只問一個最簡單的事就是說現在我們還是很繼續就是用這個非核家園政策走到底嗎我們要不要為這種東西做一些準備呢就是說其實這個我在其他地方也一直執行過"},{"start":8122.563,"end":8145.527,"text":"到底我們這個核融核的這個發展要不要有策略?或者是說是不是也應該要有甚至這種跟這個有關的甚至核能的這個政策的白皮書?還是說我們就是反正堅持就是廢核走到底了?那另外您看其實像你看美國他們其實事實上也會這個提出這個核融核的商轉策略就是說我們到底要不要"},{"start":8147.114,"end":8152.579,"text":"對這個地方還是說我們乾脆就走到底,反正核能跟我們是無關的。主委。好,那個謝謝張委員。"},{"start":8155.532,"end":8179.182,"text":"首先,能源政策其實是經濟部在主責,是我們國家的政策。那麼核安會其實是守住bottom line,安全。所以這個部分其實是我們專業在把關。那這是第一點。那第二點,核融合,那麼這個是一個最近的非常熱門、悉心的國際研究的課題。"},{"start":8180.522,"end":8183.463,"text":"三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8205.856,"end":8228.381,"text":"我覺得說未來的這個趨勢要是真的而且我坦白講要核融合等這些新的技術要是真的成熟了也許他真的就沒有廢料了等等或者說他這個這些可以解決的話這也符合這個陳建仁院長講的嗎如果這樣的話那這也算綠電了我的理解現在離真正的上場我知道啦距離很遙遠非常遙遠但是我們如果都不R&D的話也不行嗎當然"},{"start":8234.062,"end":8237.803,"text":"二、審查112年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":8259.949,"end":8270.035,"text":"三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8288.285,"end":8289.286,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8312.642,"end":8320.351,"text":"三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8330.442,"end":8343.989,"text":"專業該怎麼做該怎麼審查該怎麼check可疑的地方老舊零件對阿這個至關重要啦那個主委因為你們就是要把關安全的所以我們才說這種所謂緊急就可以拿來用這個也不合理啦這個真的要講清楚啦好不好"},{"start":8344.569,"end":8356.44,"text":"因為我們認為是也要有制度面的甚至要配套面那主委我再直接往下但這個問題前面有幾位委員問我就很快速的還是再簡單講就是說我們這個六佛化幼這件事其實當時我看新聞我能調到了從2017當時是執政黨才開始執政的時候就說兩年內他就要處理掉後來就2018的時候說那下週簽約"},{"start":8369.312,"end":8373.384,"text":"現在我們說要出去本來預定已經延宕到你看11"},{"start":8375.674,"end":8404.394,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":8404.614,"end":8405.135,"text":"高院長回答"},{"start":8422.199,"end":8440.929,"text":"報告委員,這個UF6事實上可以回溯到40年前,40多年前我們在研究核燃料反應器核燃料的技術的時候從法國跟美國進口對我知道歷史我們都知道現在也比較運不出去那你好好用它有沒有可能因為它是一個比較複雜的"},{"start":8442.29,"end":8468.13,"text":"主核物甚至三個桶裡面有一個桶比較複雜所以會有一些安全上的顧慮所以本來今年年底就要運出去但是這些顧慮在經過英國的產家來特別...我知道我們剛剛上面都有寫是所以將來是不是要用因為這是用過的一些UXX混雜了一些其他的東西並不適合第四代如果第四代有這個需要我們應該再去買新的買不同的嗎?"},{"start":8468.49,"end":8472.233,"text":"二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關核能安全委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":8490.23,"end":8490.49,"text":"核轉換是否有前瞻性?"},{"start":8507.421,"end":8509.884,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8527.123,"end":8541.755,"text":"核轉換事實上是ADS的技術就是我們把百分之百的廢料事實上百分之九十五可以透過核轉換把一些常伴衰期的超過千年萬年轉換成500年到100年以下這個計畫在我70MVB裡面有"},{"start":8546.078,"end":8563.137,"text":"有部分的經會在支持繼續要研究核轉換我先期的計畫前兩年也是有所以我六年來就是前三年到後三年都會有趨勢研究這方面希望這個是但是他因為要蓋這個反應器subcritical reactor我們估計要花600億"},{"start":8564.138,"end":8565.56,"text":"三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8582.339,"end":8608.702,"text":"讓這件事未來下一代的可能可以更精進的話那我們就多做一點好那最後好再30秒就結束了好請院長現在我再請教一個問題這個最近你看美國他們對空軍飛行員都有研究這種游離輻射的影響最近哈佛大學有出來他們是對空服員這個我們好像我們對我們自己有沒有這個這個核安會有沒有想過這件事"},{"start":8609.042,"end":8611.645,"text":"國人航空從業人員年平均12至3毫西弗每年,低於國際"},{"start":8625.083,"end":8629.465,"text":"三、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8646.714,"end":8646.874,"text":"范雲委員質詢"},{"start":8677.125,"end":8677.346,"text":"主席"},{"start":8684.995,"end":8708.669,"text":"主委早安我首先要請問主委關於核廢料就是台電跟新北之間的爭議那因為核一核二廠用過的核子燃料棒數早就已經超過燃料池可儲存的容量那如果沒有中期的儲存設施的話會導致燃料棒無法轉移甚至留在爐心無法移出"},{"start":8709.329,"end":8711.871,"text":"禁止核一、核二廠室外竿組設施的水保相關計劃,一直被新北市政府阻撓,然後纏送至今。我們看到長達10年的徵送,台電最近勝訴,"},{"start":8724.458,"end":8732.942,"text":"新北也決定不要上訴所以請問主委可是現在他們的新爭議是台電跟新北市政府要不要重送計畫還沒有定論就是台電認為依照這個判決不用重送計畫可是我們新北市政府卻認為說這個計畫已經預期要求他提展言"},{"start":8747.93,"end":8757.28,"text":"主委,您是核安的主管機關,您有沒有積極協調各方,儘速啟動室外竿組設施的建置呢?"},{"start":8762.686,"end":8785.002,"text":"與新北市政府因訴訟卡關其實都是一贏一輸各打50大板這個僵局就在那個地方那現在不是新北已經說不上訴了新聞是這樣寫的台電勝訴它的部分它其實是有兩個issue我會再跟委員做一些說明這一個部分將來我們希望"},{"start":8790.197,"end":8791.598,"text":"委員會主管核子事故緊急應變"},{"start":8807.133,"end":8809.035,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8834.835,"end":8840.739,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8855.249,"end":8860.031,"text":"主委,您認為現在無法預期什麼時候要建制?現在是不大容易說。您覺得這個拖延的責任是在哪一方?"},{"start":8881.378,"end":8882.779,"text":"主要是兩方都有各自自己的立場"},{"start":8899.19,"end":8901.251,"text":"委員會主管核子事故緊急應變基金附屬單位預"},{"start":8917.498,"end":8925.703,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":8939.012,"end":8949.084,"text":"否則這個核安就是說沒有辦法儘速啟動室外竿組設施的話建置的話反而讓大家就是說可能承擔更大的風險這樣沒錯吧沒錯那個謝謝委員建議我們會來努力謝謝"},{"start":8953.629,"end":8972.358,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究"},{"start":8983.123,"end":9010.579,"text":"可是現在就是說它的就是核廢水排放之後並還沒有組團過去對不對有有有已經組團過去了我等一下再說說明就日本排放核處理水後台灣已經有組團過去了是的好那這樣子那你們有跟日方溝通爭取就是我們一起能夠有更多的資訊共享嗎"},{"start":9011.639,"end":9013.04,"text":"主管核能安全委員會"},{"start":9026.627,"end":9039.337,"text":"二、審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查113年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":9048.544,"end":9050.507,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":9066.088,"end":9066.909,"text":"委員會主管核廢水排放資訊。"},{"start":9088.687,"end":9102.964,"text":"我們核安會是不是也能夠爭取雖然不能跟他們一起去可不可以進行相關的資訊共享跟IAEA我們的網頁其實就有最新的IAEA相關的資訊的報導"},{"start":9104.406,"end":9128.313,"text":"另外我們會裡面有駐外人員除了其他地方之外也有包含日本所以我們會得到第一手的資料就是跟委員報告所以我們在資訊上不會比南韓慢就對了不會主委那這個承諾非常好我想這是大家關心的事情那我知道2021年我們主委就已經對日本排核處理稅提出三大訴求"},{"start":9129.133,"end":9154.535,"text":"那這三大訴求可不可以請問何安慧據說結果目前是情況如何都有達到嗎是的我想就是第一個就是掌握源頭啦掌握源頭第二個全面監測強力的監測第三個就是擴散預報第四個資訊共享就是讓全民都知道那這個其實是我們最重要的四個主軸所以這些訴求都有達到"},{"start":9155.336,"end":9184.699,"text":"是的,我們一些細節可以再給委員知道。好,那謝謝主委,因為就是說我們並沒有看到完整的資訊,所以是不是請核安會針對核廢料的處置,如何更積極的協調,提出解方,還有輔導和處理水排放的部分,如何積極的國際合作加強資訊共享,不落後其他的國家的部分,那給我們辦公室一個報告好嗎?沒有問題。那一個月內可以嗎?"},{"start":9185.399,"end":9185.479,"text":"請主委"},{"start":9214.366,"end":9216.067,"text":"陳委員好主委好主委就是福島核災經過了12年那日本東京電力公司今年6月所發布的報告表示在福島第一核電廠港灣內捕獲到的"},{"start":9237.725,"end":9256.68,"text":"海水於體內不但輻射值超標而輻射元素色的含量也達到每千克1.8萬倍克那超過了日本食品衛生法所規定標準的180倍"},{"start":9258.757,"end":9283.253,"text":"所以民間對於核廢水的疑慮並不是沒有依據的所以應該持續監測主委你說是不是的確是以科學的標準參照國際的原則國際的標準那麼細節這個部分其實我們會裡面是有一些核研所我們核安會"},{"start":9284.534,"end":9311.554,"text":"有掌握到什麼嗎?有,我請張組長來做說明細節的部分。報告委員我們也掌握了就是日本當地的這個福島周邊他們有檢測到韓社的一個超標。那我們在這一次的一個日本跟台日之間的核安的一個資訊交流我們也特別有交流。那掌握到的資訊可以給本席跟我們教文委員會嗎?"},{"start":9312.295,"end":9312.495,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":9327.867,"end":9329.028,"text":"議員主席議員主席議員主席"},{"start":9351.029,"end":9374.687,"text":"其實日本有很多民間單位設置輻射監測的儀器那人民可以進行檢測讓社會安心那前一陣子我們有民眾送樣品到民間的檢測中心要求做痊癒檢測痊癒檢測就是包括骨頭尤其我們知道"},{"start":9375.247,"end":9402.619,"text":"議員議員議員議員議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9403.8,"end":9421.637,"text":"獲實能夠做到民眾的需求。這個部分其實主要是兩個研究室檢測的地方一個是國研院一個是我們輻射政策中心在高雄這邊提到的交通陽明大學這個部分他們其實是做"},{"start":9422.678,"end":9423.119,"text":"實品安全檢測。"},{"start":9440.174,"end":9440.855,"text":"檢驗實驗室由本來的一家變成三家"},{"start":9456.633,"end":9457.033,"text":"好,我們瞭解"},{"start":9487.025,"end":9490.769,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家"},{"start":9506.667,"end":9507.988,"text":"檢測核能安全委員會主管核能安全委員會主管"},{"start":9535.605,"end":9546.21,"text":"我們核安會其實過去有注意到這個新聞那麼過去也有相關的案例那麼福芳組張組長他可以做一些比較"},{"start":9548.078,"end":9568.647,"text":"主委可不可以核安會去蒐集坊間的然後做檢測然後把就是去識別化是哪一家然後能夠有一些檢測的這個數據讓民眾了解這個如果有過高的輻射值可以加強宣傳"},{"start":9569.907,"end":9572.15,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":9587.15,"end":9609.421,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院及113年度行"},{"start":9616.84,"end":9617,"text":"主席陳委員"},{"start":9646.187,"end":9646.547,"text":"鄭正前委員"},{"start":9668.633,"end":9687.896,"text":"主委好因為今年我們原能會改組成核安會所以就有很多相關的一個部分那我想說第一個部分我想問的部分還是要問有關於整個日本排放核污染水的部分因為我們看了一下就是我們"},{"start":9689.542,"end":9715.895,"text":"相關單位我們裡面有關於國家海域放射性物質擴散預警及安全評估應對計畫裡頭那我們大概查大概有三筆預算大概跟這個部分有關然後發現其中有關於環境輻射偵測的業務計畫跟整個原子能科學發展工作計畫下面這兩筆預算都較上一年度簡略是什麼原因可以簡單說明一下"},{"start":9717.035,"end":9720.819,"text":"應對計劃是從今年開始112年到115年4年剛開始是編列4.8億一年1.2億但是它是逐年審那今年呢明年是因為"},{"start":9736.598,"end":9760.627,"text":"國科會統三國科會統三的原因因為我在想說因為就今年其實他們開始排放核污染水那我在想說我們對於這部分的檢測一定要特別加緊那我們後續會再往下因為今天的時間比較短我就持續再往下針對這部分到時候你們之後再用那個相關的書面資料"},{"start":9761.547,"end":9762.987,"text":"四、審查190年度及113年度行政法人"},{"start":9778.012,"end":9800.607,"text":"這裏面是不是都在我們監測範圍裏頭我為什麼這樣問我就直接把我看到的表格把它列出來因為這張表格是放射性物質海域擴散海洋資訊平台裏面我們點出來的那麼取樣的時間那它裏面的核種只有色137跟穿那其他的都沒有所以我想說對於其他沒有的那個核種的時候我們有沒有同時做檢測"},{"start":9802.103,"end":9824.882,"text":"是的,我剛才回答前面的委員的質詢就有提到我們在特定的海域離島跟這個黑潮流經的部分那我們有做其他核種的一些檢驗那麼主要的部分其實是在色跟川那麼這個是延續國際所有的標準的做法"},{"start":9827.025,"end":9827.225,"text":"獲得獲得獲得"},{"start":9852.13,"end":9865.299,"text":"我想要特別講的是穿的部分因為穿全部都沒有出來那我想問這個穿沒有出來是因為他完全沒有還是說他低於MDA的部分"},{"start":9866.465,"end":9895.379,"text":"那個自然的環境的背景值是0.5貝克除以每升那麼我們simulation就是模擬是10的-6次方那麼它其實是遠低於機器可以量測的範圍叫minimum detective amount所以我們到時候我們有某這個數字只是說因為它低於MDA所以說我們這邊就是測不出來"},{"start":9895.939,"end":9899.181,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":9922.895,"end":9927.457,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":9943.327,"end":9956.476,"text":"第一個,AOPS是一個Advanced Liquid Processing System,那麼它其實64個核種,在原來的核廢水裡面大概過濾了62種,但那兩種沒辦法過濾,一個是川,"},{"start":9961.459,"end":9978.524,"text":"議員議員議員議員"},{"start":9978.524,"end":10006.015,"text":"檢測檢測檢測檢測"},{"start":10006.577,"end":10027.173,"text":"我再想說對於這個部分就是因為主委這邊也很清楚知道LPS它的限制性所以我們對這部分就我們一個民意代表角度的時候我們對這部分一定會在更加強的部分去做一個監督因為這對民眾的健康有非常直接的一個關係那我再往下走"},{"start":10028.314,"end":10048.2,"text":"這是我們從漁業署漁獲5生物川抽驗結果的一個報告我想這個裡面它對於生物川這邊也有一個全部都是MDA的一個狀態我想這個檢測是我們就是單位檢測的還是漁業署檢測的是我們單位檢測漁業署抽樣漁業署抽樣那國研院來做檢測"},{"start":10057.312,"end":10057.492,"text":"海洋資訊平台海水監測"},{"start":10082.193,"end":10084.195,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":10099.831,"end":10123.214,"text":"則核安會這邊能夠定期來公佈我們檢測的一個結果然後讓我們很清楚的知道就是目前的一個環境到底是怎麼樣子因為它這一排也是要排很多年你知道嗎而且越排的狀態很可能它的濃度會越來越高所以我們希望這個部分能夠主動來公佈那麼也希望主委能夠支持這樣的一個主決議"},{"start":10125.236,"end":10138.464,"text":"謝謝委員的建議第一個就是我們這個平台的操作不夠user friendly我自己非常認同那我們會來想辦法第二個剛才我們提到一些檢測的問題其實是漁業署抽樣"},{"start":10142.506,"end":10157.396,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預二、審查112年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":10167.363,"end":10183.882,"text":"議員議員議員"},{"start":10183.882,"end":10185.423,"text":"二、審查112年度及113年度行政法人國家原子能科技研究院預"},{"start":10200.37,"end":10228.436,"text":"之前我們有提到就是各縣市有挑出40處潛在的長址潛在長址這個部分那我當時我有特別問了在竹竹苗這邊這40個潛在長址當中有幾個那我想問具體在什麼地方那你們給我一個回覆啦那這回覆呢基本上等於是沒有回覆你們就把104年5月份的一個低放射性廢棄物最終處置計畫書就台電提出來你們就把它"},{"start":10228.976,"end":10229.516,"text":"議員主席"},{"start":10247.921,"end":10248.301,"text":"關於今天會議做以下決議"},{"start":10279.011,"end":10292.27,"text":"報告及詢答完畢,委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報。對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分,請相關機關緊速以書面答覆。"},{"start":10293.68,"end":10295.201,"text":"算案相關提案請於12月1日中午12時前提出令第7繼續審查報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在休息謝謝各位"},{"start":10330.067,"end":10331.088,"text":"法定人數不足"},{"start":10354.411,"end":10355.232,"text":"委員會主管核子事故。"},{"start":10387.231,"end":10387.613,"text":"委員會主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}