{"error":false,"id":["153174"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153174,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153174","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-29T09:12:59+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T09:24:43+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331678192ad8689619e243e47098157e4f6333bc5d453e1b195123a4db8f526838d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:12:59 - 09:24:43","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請農業部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【5月27日、5月29日及5月30日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":28,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時13分）謝謝召委，我們請部長。"],["主席：我們請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：部長，有四個問題大概都是我一直在追蹤的，請部長把我從過去到現在一直在關心的一些進度，很清楚、簡短的跟我報告一下。首先，關於整個養牛產業全面升級轉型計畫，我們催又催，好不容易終於催出來了，從去年開始一直到現在，我第一場邀請陳吉仲部長在柳營區農會開說明會，那時候是聲音最大的時候，112年8月29號，我們下來了，陳吉仲部長提了幾個安心的方向，也就是所謂淘汰乳牛的計畫，然後有說會溯源、會溯及既往，也就是說，大家開始做這樣一個準備工作，大家開始配合政府做準備工作了，而我們就會有一些短期、中期、長期的計畫，所以這個要送行政院核定，現在在準備當中，當時候8月29號是這麼說。","在今（113）年2月5號，一樣的，我也開了座談會跟記者會，當時候農業部也是這麼說，我還質詢了我們的部長，當時你是代理部長，部長也說會朝這個方向，所以我們一直追、一直追、一直追，終於這個計畫公告了，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：這個計畫已經獲得行政院的核定。"],["陳委員亭妃：核定了嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：現在重點來了，5月8號才核定，是不是？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：5月8號核定，現在所有酪農都在擔心該怎麼辦，5月8號才核定，當時、去年跟人家講的一些甜言蜜語，人家已經配合政府的一些相關措施，都已經做了，結果現在有可能因為主計單位的問題、有可能因為年度的問題，沒有辦法溯及既往，回歸到當時你們所講的12月1號，這事情嚴重了！部長，這事情嚴重了！這變成我們政府失信於民。8月29號當時陳吉仲部長答應了，後面你們所有相關的說明會，到各地辦的說明會，你們都是這麼說，你們要趕快來做淘汰乳牛的相關辦法，大家也都配合了，結果現在卻說不行喔！因為5月8號行政院才通過，沒有辦法溯及到12月1號，部長，這怎麼辦？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明，5月8號通過了以後，基本上淘汰寡產乳牛也是一個既定的政策，我們內部也一直在去研議、去追溯，這是第一點我要先跟委員說明的，但是在追溯的部分有很多執行的細節，因為整個乳牛的例行性……"],["陳委員亭妃：當然，這有細節啊！當然你們要去克服啊！你們之前、去年8月29號跟人家說得這麼大聲，如果知道有年度問題，就要跟行政院講，要趕快予以核定啊！為什麼要拖到5月8號？拖到5月8號後，現在才跟人家說這有年度的問題，請問誰可以接受？"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員說明，農業部本身所提的一個計畫，並不是提了一個計畫到院長室就核定了，而是提計畫以後會到國科會，接著會徵詢所有相關部會的同意，然後再到行政院，如果他們有疑問的話，還會退下來要求補充，所以整個的計畫，其實我們在去年底就開始研議……"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！部長，這個就是重點，因為我已經質詢很多次了，就在這個地方，我質詢過幾次了？我提醒過你們速度要快，因為一定會有年度的問題，結果你們來來去去到5月8號才做核定，這個是你們的問題，不能是酪農的問題。我再一次強調，這些行政程序是你們的問題，既然答應人家、政府跟人家講好的，就是要照做，不能跳票！部長，我在這個地方鄭重要求，而且下一次質詢，我也會質詢卓榮泰院長，不能因為年度的部分，讓我們的酪農在配合我們國家政策後，反而得不到補助，這個部分很重要耶！你調所有的過程，你就清楚了。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，我們會讓這個制度能夠有程度的溯源，但是我們也查了所有的會議紀錄，我們當初所提到的是，我們一定會儘可能的協助酪農能夠追溯，至於可以追溯到什麼樣的時間點……"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！可以追溯，我告訴你，你們裡面的人在說謊，所有酪農很清楚的知道是到12月1號，你們可以去調你們所有說明會的資料，你們不要在這邊說謊喔！12月1號是所有酪農都知道的時間點，你們過去要他們做的時候把話說得這麼好聽、這麼大聲，結果現在跳票了、現在矢口否認了，我告訴你，這個東西酪農已經很清楚，我覺得該怎麼做就怎麼做，不要跳票，不要代理部長真除之後就對酪農跳票。","第二個部分，現在我們的國產鮮乳計畫是要提供學童飲用保久乳，可是現在有兩個問題，第一個問題，你跟人家說鮮乳有食安的疑慮，喝新鮮的一定是最好，對不對？是不是？當天現擠的鮮奶一定是最好嘛！現在衛福部說會有食安的疑慮，那請問雲林縣、嘉義縣、宜蘭縣，從110年到現在都陸續提供了學童鮮乳，為什麼沒有食安的疑慮？為什麼沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，因為你用鮮乳，學童本身如果沒有喝完，或是他想要帶回家喝，就會造成很多可能的……"],["陳委員亭妃：不是，部長，我已經跟你講了，你不要把我跳題，我前面問了，你要跟我講嘉義、雲林、宜蘭從110年做到現在，為什麼沒有食安的問題？你不要再用食安，你要去跟酪農說清楚。","第二個問題，國產鮮乳你如何協助它轉型因應現在要變成國產的「保久乳」，要怎麼去輔導它？要怎麼去檢討相關的流程機制，現在是有關卡的喔，不是每一家都可以把它變成所謂的國產保久乳喔，不是喔，不是喔！"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解啊！"],["陳委員亭妃：它有門檻喔！"],["陳部長駿季：我瞭解。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊，你今天這個制度下去，請問幫到了誰？你有幫到我們真正國產的鮮乳嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們的目的就是要幫忙小農……"],["陳委員亭妃：現在是因為紐西蘭的保久乳進來，保久乳進來之後，為了要去鼓勵我們的鮮乳不要滯銷，不要因為紐西蘭的問題而造成這樣的狀況。可是這個部分，你沒有去做輔導機制，沒有去幫他們國產鮮乳，包括小農也好，怎麼去協助它轉型因應成國產的保久乳，這個問題就跑出來了啊！所以今天我丟這兩個問題給你，如果是鮮乳，為什麼嘉義、雲林還有宜蘭不會有食安的問題？然後你怎麼協助這些國產的鮮乳，在現在極高的門檻當中，要怎麼轉型變成國產的保久乳？你的輔導機制在哪裡？你的流程、規定要怎麼檢討？","再來第三個，就是水稻的問題。水稻的保險，你們現在怎麼處理，有機制了嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們的水稻保險有分為兩個，一個是基本型，一個是加強型的部分。"],["陳委員亭妃：當然，現在針對是基本型。"],["陳部長駿季：基本型的部分，針對這些相關特定的區域，我們會增加它的取樣點。"],["陳委員亭妃：取樣點？這個部分要趕快積極處理，因為這幾天前面都已經開始在收成了，取樣點增加然後跟保險公司……招標是由你們去招標，所以你們跟保險公司一定有一些協調平臺，你應該給他們一個壓力。你沒有給他們壓力，我跟你說保險公司都是這樣啦，反正要拿的時候是一個面……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，政策型保險是我們農金局……"],["陳委員亭妃：然後保險要給付時又是另外一個面。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，政策型保險不是私人保險公司，是我們農金局，農業部自己在處理的，所以沒有保險公司……"],["陳委員亭妃：是，那最好啊！農金局自己的啊，自己人嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我們昨天才開會的。"],["陳委員亭妃：對嘛，自己人嘛，現在有方向就對了？"],["陳部長駿季：就是我們會增加相關的取樣點……"],["陳委員亭妃：好，增加取樣點……"],["陳部長駿季：但是基準產量還是去頭去尾的部分……"],["陳委員亭妃：然後還有蜂農的問題，蜂農我們基本上已經公告了嘛，新的災損已經公告完成了？"],["陳部長駿季：我們公告了以後，啟動的時候要開專家會議，今天早上正在開。"],["陳委員亭妃：今天早上開專家會議，專家會議開完就會有一個方向，就是如何落實蜂農的登記，如何讓蜂農可以納入我們的災損，而且有一個基準產量的部分，這些都會在今天討論嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我們在天然災害救助辦法裡面就已經把蜂農的災害納進去了，今天只是討論要不要啟動天然災救助，如果一啟動的話……"],["主席：好，就請部長將討論的結果詳實給陳委員說明。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，就以這個基準產量的部分，看怎麼去做處理。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以今天早上在開會，今天早上開完就會有一個方向了？"],["陳部長駿季：是，有一個結果，不是方向。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我們的龍眼這一次是災損，蜂農的損失非常非常的慘重，所以我們希望學者專家以及農業部應該給蜂農一個標準，還有給他們一個依靠，這才是最重要的……公告後這是重點，謝謝。"],["主席：好，一個依靠，請農業部長將相關資訊給陳委員說明清楚，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來我們請林岱樺委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":346,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","林岱樺","張啓楷","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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這事大條捏 部長 這事大條捏 這變成我們政府私信於民欸 在8月29日當時候是陳其仲部長去答應 然後後面所有相關你們的說明會到各地的說明會都是這麼說 你們要趕快做 我們來做淘汰這個乳牛的相關辦法"},{"start":194.619,"end":202.151,"text":"大家都配合結果現在說現在5月8號行政院才通過沒有辦法溯及到12月1號部長這怎麼辦"},{"start":206.683,"end":234.034,"text":"我想跟委員說明就是5月8日通過了以後那基本上淘汰拐角年齡也是一個既定的政策那我們在內部也一直在去研議、去追溯好這第一點我要先跟委員說明的但是在追溯的部分有很多執行的細節因為整個乳牛的一個例行性的一個當然啊這有細節啊這當然你們要去克服啊你有話要跟我說這麼大聲在去年8月29日"},{"start":235.636,"end":239.43,"text":"你怎麼知道我年度的問題?你要跟行政院講啊!"},{"start":240.509,"end":266.239,"text":"你們要趕快給我核定啊為什麼拖到5月8號拖到5月8號現在才跟人家講說年度的問題這上禮當真需要我跟委員說明齁誰能夠接受農業部本身所提的一個計畫他不是說提了一個計畫就到運糧室就核定了因為提計畫以後會到國科會會徵詢所有的相關部會的一個同意再到行政院那如果說有有他們有疑問的話還會退下來補充"},{"start":268.26,"end":286.736,"text":"所以整個的一個計畫其實我們在去年底就開始去研議再去研究的時候部長 這個就是重點嘛你們去年底因為我已經質詢很多次了在這個地方我質詢過幾次了然後我就在提醒你們速度要快因為一定會有年度的問題"},{"start":288.471,"end":315.436,"text":"結果你們來來去去來來去去來來去去到5月8號才做核定好啦這個是你們的問題不能是落農的問題我再一次強調這些行政程序是你們的問題人家答應過政府人家講的就是要照著不能人家跳票這個部長我在這個地方慎重要求而且如果在下一次質詢我也會質詢卓榮泰院長"},{"start":318.353,"end":325.618,"text":"我跟委員說明就是我們會讓這個制度能夠有程度的溯源但是我們也查了所有的會議記錄我們當初所提到就是說我們一定會盡可能的協助弱能能夠追溯這件事情"},{"start":349.273,"end":376.808,"text":"那至於追溯到什麼樣的時間點我告訴你 你們裡面的在說謊喔 所有的落農很清楚的指到12月1號 你們去調你們所有的說明會喔 你們不要在這邊說謊喔12月1號是所有落農都知道的時間點喔 你們現在過去要叫人走 就說這麼衰虧這麼大聲 結果現在現在跳票 現在矢口否認了"},{"start":378.052,"end":393.625,"text":"我告訴你 這個東西 洛農已經很清楚我覺得該怎麼做就怎麼做不要跳票 不要在第一屆把代理部長徵除之後就對洛農跳票第二個部分就是說現在"},{"start":394.966,"end":411.309,"text":"我們看到我們的國產鮮乳計畫是要引用提供學童、引用保酒乳可是現在有兩個問題第一個問題你跟人家說鮮乳有食安的疑慮吃青椰一點是最好嘛 對不對"},{"start":412.648,"end":428.824,"text":"是不是?當天縣級的先奶丁是最好嘛那現在衛福部說會有食安的疑慮那請問雲林縣、嘉義縣、宜蘭縣從110年到現在都陸續提供了學童鮮乳那為什麼沒有食安的疑慮"},{"start":430.306,"end":443.643,"text":"為什麼沒有我跟委員說明喔就是因為你用鮮乳的時候學童本身他如果沒有喝完或是他想要帶回家喝就會造成很多可能的不是部長我已經跟你講了你不要把我跳題"},{"start":444.904,"end":465.877,"text":"我前面跟你講了那你要跟我講人家嘉義雲林宜蘭從110年做到現在為什麼沒有食安的問題你不要再用食安你要去跟酪農說清楚好第二個問題國產鮮乳他你如何協助他轉型因應現在變成國產的薄酒乳"},{"start":467.995,"end":468.235,"text":"我瞭解阿我瞭解"},{"start":485.965,"end":508.899,"text":"那你今天這個制度下去請問你幫到了誰?你有幫到我們真正國產的鮮乳嗎?現在是因為紐西蘭的所有薄酒乳進來薄酒乳進來之後我們為了要去鼓勵我們的鮮乳不要滯銷不要是有因為紐西蘭的問題而造成這樣的一個狀況"},{"start":510.16,"end":524.657,"text":"可是你這個部分你沒有去做輔導機制沒有去幫他們說國產鮮乳包括小農也好怎麼去協助他轉型因應成國產的苞酒乳這個問題就跑出來了啊所以今天我丟這兩個問題給你"},{"start":526.721,"end":548.401,"text":"聽我的兩位人家如果說鮮乳為什麼嘉義雲林還有宜蘭不會有食安的問題然後你怎麼協助這些國產的鮮乳在現在有極高門檻當中要怎麼轉型變成國產的薄酒乳你的輔導機制在哪裡你的流程規定要怎麼檢討好再來第三個就是水稻的問題"},{"start":549.682,"end":566.924,"text":"水稻的問題水稻的保險你們現在怎麼處理有機制了嗎我們的水稻保險有分了兩個一個是基本型一個是加強型的部分當然現在針對是基本型基本型的部分我們會針對相關的這些特定的區域我們會增加它的取樣點"},{"start":567.785,"end":593.364,"text":"取讓點這個部分要趕快積極處理因為這幾天都已經前面都開始在收成了所有的取讓點然後增加到跟保險公司你們是你們是這個去招標的是有你們所以你應該保養公司一定有一定的一些協調平台你應該給他們一個壓力你沒有給他們壓力我跟你說啦保養公司齁都是這樣啦反正"},{"start":595.746,"end":618.891,"text":"要拿的時候是另外一種我跟委員講明喔政策型保險是我們農經局沒有政策型保險不是私人公司私人保險公司是我們農經局我們農業部局在處理的所以沒有說那個保險公司那最好啊農經局自己的啊自己人嘛我們昨天才開會的對嘛自己人嘛那現在有方向了對了"},{"start":620.134,"end":624.638,"text":"就是我們會增加相關的取樣點但是基準產量的部分還是去頭去尾的部分然後還有蜂農的問題蜂農我們基本上已經公告了新的我們的這個災損已經公告了我們公告了以後要啟動的時候要開專家會議今天早上正在開"},{"start":638.57,"end":652.869,"text":"今天早上開專家會議專家會議開完就會有一個方向就是如何落實蜂農的登記如何讓災損的部分蜂農可以納入到我們的災損而且有一個基準產量的部分這些都會在今天會有討論嗎我們在那個"},{"start":655.552,"end":656.432,"text":"今天早上再開,今天早上開完就會有一個方向了"},{"start":678.263,"end":690.689,"text":"我覺得這一次因為我們的這個農演這一次是摘損風農的損失非常非常的慘重所以我們希望學者專家應該給風農然後我們農業部應該給風農一個標準還有他們的一個挖口這是最重要的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}