{"error":false,"id":["153186"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153186,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153186","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-29T09:28:52+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T09:37:34+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e133135d9210106cb3afe6bfa9387d0b459bd333bc5d453e1b195b0b1194c6a6941375ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳素月","委員發言時間":"09:28:52 - 09:37:34","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":124,"blocks":[["陳委員素月：（9時28分）謝謝主席，請主席邀請陳主委。"],["主席：請陳主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：陳委員早。"],["陳委員素月：主委早安。我們知道2050淨零碳排可以說是整個世界的趨勢，根據統計資料，我國每年的碳淨排放量達到27,515萬噸，其中公共工程可以說是碳排的大戶，所以我們要減碳的話，政府應該從公共工程帶頭做起。之前的主委在這個部分有陸續推動相關的政策，今天看到您的施政報告裡面也有提到淨零碳排的一些政策。有關淨零碳排，當然在工程方面就是要針對材料去著手、下手，我們看到在2023年的第28屆聯合國氣候變遷大會裡面，加拿大、德國、英國、美國有發起設定「公有建築以建材為主的蘊含碳減量目標」，推行「國內低碳建材採購政策」等方式，規定於「國家級建設」使用低碳水泥混凝土。這個在國外也行之有年了，美國有很多的大型建設，包含道路、交通的建設都有採用低碳水泥，我想請教一下，目前我們國內的公共工程，針對低碳水泥的政策是如何？"],["陳主任委員金德：謝謝委員的指教。低碳水泥就是石灰石水泥，現在石灰石水泥在各個臺灣的水泥公司，這個產品已經相當成熟了，目前使用上，我看到的資料是需經第三方驗證之後，報到主管機關同意才能使用……"],["陳委員素月：對。"],["陳主任委員金德：業者會覺得相當的不方便，甚至規範裡面還有禁止摻配其他的材料，所以導致混凝土廠就比較不喜歡用石灰石水泥，因為受限於相關的施工規範。跟委員報告，我們工程會刻正研擬相關的修正，讓混凝土業者能夠使用低碳的石灰石水泥，達到減碳的目標，這部分我們刻正研討修正當中。"],["陳委員素月：是。目前我們國內的水泥大廠也已經研發出低碳水泥，就是卜特蘭石灰石水泥，它的減碳趴數可以達到10%，甚至最新的三元混合水泥，它的減碳率更可以達到45%，所以，如果我們的公共工程能夠帶頭，從材料的使用上來使用這樣的材料的話，相信讓我們淨零碳排的目標能夠儘快的達到。當然，包括林委員也有在關心的，主委剛剛也有提到的就是，需要第三方專業機構的認證，這部分對業者可能會有比較多的阻礙。另外，會不會造成成本的增加，這個部分主委有沒有去瞭解？"],["陳主任委員金德：報告委員，這部分所謂成本增加是指驗證過程會增加成本，這部分我還不是很清楚。"],["陳委員素月：關於這部分，如果我們的公共工程可以來帶頭使用低碳水泥，當然能夠達到減碳的目標，事實上在之前我也有質詢過主委，有關我們政府的公共工程在推動減碳的政策目標的時候，事實上我們也有針對電子採購網，就是政府的電子採購網有新增「減碳」這個欄位，主委，你知道嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，減碳欄位這部分，根據我初步的瞭解，應該還在試行當中，整個制度還沒有很全面性的實施，這個部分我們只有初步在研議……"],["陳委員素月：據我瞭解，好像工程會之前是說今年3月會上線，可是到目前好像還沒有上線。"],["陳主任委員金德：對，我會進一步把這個政策再盤查、再討論詳細之後，再來做必要的調整或決定。"],["陳委員素月：回到剛剛我問到的低碳水泥的部分，如果你要推動減碳，要新增減碳的欄位，如果工程會對於相關建材的使用，沒有一個明確開放的政策的話，那未來營造廠商等相關的單位，它要如何去填寫這個減碳的欄位？"],["陳主任委員金德：關於公共設施使用的原料或建材的碳排係數，工程會也刻正希望每個機關在辦理公共建設的時候，在施作的過程當中能夠做若干的盤查，然後蒐集相關的碳排係數納入資料庫裡面，希望將來資料庫比較完整之後，會提供給各機關來使用。"],["陳委員素月：是。我想節能減碳、淨零碳排這真的是一個未來的趨勢，也是一個很新的觀念，我們在政策上還有實務上要怎樣去落實，這個可能有很多面向要去考量，所以這部分可能要請主委多費心。另外我們也看到，主委在今天的報告裡面的第10頁有提到，我們要打造高效低碳的採購，內容當中有提到，配合內政部要求公有建築取得建築能效標示。關於建築能效標示這部分，內政部在2022年就已經公布了認證的標準，目前我們工程會在公有建築部分推展的進度如何？"],["陳主任委員金德：我是不是請同仁來回答，好嗎？"],["陳委員素月：好。目前有開始在推了嗎？"],["徐處長肇晞：跟委員報告，目前契約範本已經納入綠建築，五千萬以上的工程都要求要取得綠建築標章，至於節能標示，我們現在也正在修契約範本，之後也會放進去，透過契約來要求廠商達成目標。"],["陳委員素月：我們只是要求，可是我想廠商對這個可能都還不是很清楚，所以我們是不是不能只是片面的要求，你要如何去協助，是不是？主委。"],["陳主任委員金德：當然契約範本對各機關有指引作用，可能廠商那邊也需要相對有一些資訊，所以工程會必須做必要的說明或是必要的宣導，或者是請各機關在設計的時候，就能夠有充分的資訊來做效能的標示。"],["陳委員素月：對，因為說明跟宣導，我覺得非常的重要，不然的話，我們只是片面的要求實施的話，那對於要實施的單位，包括機關或者是廠商，可能就會造成他們很大的一個困擾，可能也會造成成本的增加，是不是？好。謝謝。"],["主席：陳素月委員發言完畢。現在請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":306,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-14","speakers":["李昆澤","林沛祥","林俊憲","陳素月","林國成","徐富癸","魯明哲","蔡其昌","何欣純","許智傑","邱若華","游顥","李柏毅","黃國昌","洪孟楷","陳雪生","黃健豪","王美惠","廖先翔"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135301_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院公共工程委員會主任委員陳金德列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135301_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":4.58721875,"end":7.236593750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":7.236593750000001,"end":8.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.218468750000003,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":16.28159375,"end":21.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.035968750000002,"end":24.31409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":24.65159375,"end":27.621593750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":27.874718750000003,"end":33.392843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":33.66284375,"end":38.70846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":38.978468750000005,"end":39.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.87284375,"end":41.64471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.77971875,"end":47.58471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":47.98971875,"end":50.048468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.28471875,"end":62.181593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":62.65409375,"end":64.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":64.42596875000001,"end":69.55596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":69.80909375,"end":71.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":72.10409375,"end":76.23846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.50846875,"end":81.73971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":82.12784375000001,"end":85.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":85.94159375000001,"end":90.09284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.44721875,"end":93.78846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":94.09221875,"end":100.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.82534375,"end":109.17846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":109.44846875,"end":111.69284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":111.77721875,"end":116.90721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.18971875000001,"end":120.58596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.27784375,"end":124.51784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.95659375000001,"end":127.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":127.63971875000001,"end":131.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.24659375000002,"end":137.29221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":137.89971875,"end":138.64221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.13159375,"end":142.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.83159375,"end":142.30409375000002},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那麼檢探欄位這部分根據我初步的瞭解是應該在試行當中 這個整個還沒有很全面性的實施 這部分我們在就初步在 因為我瞭解好像工程會之前是說今年3月會上線可是那目前好像還沒有上線"},{"start":311.993,"end":321.399,"text":"對我會進一步再把這個政策再盤查再討論那麼詳細之後再來做必要的調整或決定"},{"start":322.671,"end":351.715,"text":"問﹖"},{"start":352.416,"end":379.828,"text":"關於這個公共設施使用的這個原料或建材那麼它的碳排系數那麼工程會也課證這個在希望在每個機關在辦理公共建設的時候在施做的過程當中能夠做一個盤查然後來蒐集相關的碳排系數在資料庫裡面那希望將來比較完整之後會提供給各機關來使用"},{"start":381.414,"end":397.753,"text":"是我想就是這個節能減碳淨零碳排這個是真的是一個未來趨勢然後也是一個很新的觀念那我們在政策上還有這個食物上要怎樣去落實這個可能有很多面向要去考量"},{"start":398.954,"end":421.646,"text":"所以這部分可能要請主委多費心那另外就是說我們看也看到主委今天的報告裡面在第10頁你有提到就是我們針對就是要打造高效低碳的採購那你這邊有提到說配合內政部要求公有建築取得建築能效標示"},{"start":422.566,"end":440.756,"text":"那這個建築能效標示這個部分在內政部在2022年他就已經有公布了這樣子的一個認證的一個標準那我們目前工程會在公有建築的這個部分推展的進度如何請同仁來回答目前有開始在推了嗎"},{"start":449.591,"end":472.311,"text":"跟委員報告目前7月範本已經把綠建築5000萬以上都要求要取得綠建築標章那這個節能標是我們現在也站在修7月範本之後也會放進去要透過7月來要求廠商來達成這個目標可是我們只是要求可是廠商我想對這個可能都還不是很清楚喔所以我們是不是不能只是片面的一個要求你要如何去協助"},{"start":474.016,"end":498.698,"text":"是不是那個主委那當然7月範本有對各機關有指引作用那可能廠商那邊也需要相對的一些資訊所以工程會必須做必要的說明或是必要的宣導或者是說請各機關那麼在設計的時候那麼就能夠有充分的資訊來做這樣的一個節能的標能源的標效能的標示"},{"start":499.538,"end":519.584,"text":"對,因為說明跟宣導我覺得是非常重要啦不然的話我們只是片面的一個要求實施的話那對於這個要實施的單位就是包括機關或者是廠商可能就是會造成他們很大的一個困擾也可能也會造成一個成本的一個增加是不是好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}